Erm are you sure? Any thorough evidence to suggest they think it is normal to allow it for release with this 1 example?
So, the DLC will not be "full and complete" unless DTG first produce the half-dozen or so locomotives required to provide all those services.
Yes, I am sure. QA is concerned with the technical side of things. Aesthetics and gameplay are Beta's department.
Yeah but even so, the limited amount of services surely makes it an eye sore? It doesn't even have shunting in the yards, just something so it looks a little bit more 'busier'..
This thread has provided some good discussion, and some less good discussion - and some responses which are on the cusp of being unacceptable. Will be monitoring the thread, and if things tip over, I'll jump in. I'd suggest that if certain discussion points or responses are something which frustrate you, take 10 minutes and come back to it with a clearer head.
OK, so to make this topic a bit more constructive, what about the DLC would you miss out to enable more services or shunting or whatever? We know what's IN the pack but you wanted more / different so what would accomplish that
All this talk of 'DTG Flywheel' is so much nonsense. As with most games with a specialized fanbase and a non-subscription business model, the only way to survive is to have a continuous production line to keep the revenue flowing. The product mix, pricing/sale scheduling and release timing is something of a black art, but the process is unavoidable. As users, we should be concerned with how well DTG does on the quality/immersion front and it is fairly clear they are under-resourced in the QA/Test areas. All the whingeing (or most of it) would die away if bugs and inaccuracies were fixed (and released) in a timely manner. As it is, there is nothing more guaranteed to enrage the punters than an announcement of a fix/improvement, which is then not released after a year - although admitting the absence of a feature included in earlier DLCs (e.g rail sounds) and saying 'no idea if or when we will fix' comes close.
So what would I like different? My personal opinion on this is utilising both locos on a mixture of services. Perhaps the following would digest this: Jubilee on Mixed traffic services 8f on local services Double heading? (8f's freight, Jubilee's on express) 8f shunting in yard or Light engine movements to a siding & back Jubilee on freight substitutes I personally had it under the impression that DTG may offer for us to utilise either locomotive on the local services, so you could pick and choose etc, sadly that is not the case. Just to clarify, this is using the DLC we have already been promised and I do not see this being too uncommon or prototypical for that era..
"All of the whingeing would die away if bugs and inaccuracies were minimised in the first instance"... And yes, then any bugs found later fixed quickly... And timetables fully QAed... Sounds fixed... Physics issues dealt with...
As a thread author, I wholeheartedly agree... I just wanted less steam safety let-off, hopefully, that still got through.
Some of the missing content just looks lazy. How long would it take to put in fences and appropriate vegetation? In Auran Trainz I reckon I could add fences and detail vegetation on about two miles of lineside in an hour... and DTG must have more sophisticated tools than on that game of so many years ago?
Absolutely right! Trainz Surveyor rocks (just a shame about the driving experience ). I think the problem may lie in the UE4 processes, this baking off or whatever it's called which makes it harder to change once set in stone. Mayhap that's why we haven't seen locations like Reigate get sorted on BML as you would literally be creating a new route?
DTG would have the unbaked files sat on their servers, hence them beign able to be redone from UE4.16 to 4.23 with little trouble bar the fact it turned several assets into other things (like traffic lights into cars)
I still think that DTG have not really learnt the lessons from Rush Hour and have committed themselves to an over ambitious project that they were always going to struggle to complete in the timeframe and within budget. The first steam engine was always going to take a lot longer. Whilst, there seems to be a suggestion that separate loco DLC's don't make money and that's why we've not had any for a while. Would it have not made sense to just do a steam loco DLC for West Somerset first. Concentrating all efforts on the steam mechanics including the firing, without the worry of having to develop all the assets for a route at the same time. Whilst this might only appeal to the hard core steam fans, the revenue would go partly towards the development expense. Then a full route with a much wider customer appeal could have been made later once the steam mechanics were working properly. The hard core steam fans would have bought this as well!
Not really. What would have made sense is sticking to what was previewed last week and getting it right to that point, having it tested and fully workable (preferably with an instruction manual or instruction video ready to be released on the day of release) and then, maybe a month down the line have the "Hey look, we've got manual firing now too", again, fully tested with manuals... Maybe We just hope for too much Though yes, Loco DLC should very much be a thing
What would have made sense is making the first route a simpler line without major yards such as Crewe and Edgehill. A branch line running off a mainline station with a reasonable yard with a mix of pickup goods trains and local passenger services all ably handed by a mix traffic tender loco and perhaps a small shunter/tank thrown in to marshal wagons in the yard. Done properly with correct track sounds and a working manual fireman. THEN release Liverpool to Crewe with the Jubilee and 8F with layers for the mixed traffic engine on local services and the shunter marshalling trains in the yards.
Will there be an update to the firing mechanism following release and will that include injectors? If not, will another update implement controllable injectors? Does the AI currently control injectors or is the water either feeded with no use of steam or is the water level in the boiler constant?
I really, really, think if TSW wants to be a simulator, it actually needs to simulate things. We need a simulated expérience of a steam loco. Automatic modes do have their place, but shouldnt they be secondary to "full" realism ? I really dont want to wait 6 months or 1 year to have the full steam experience.
There is no time frame on the full firing effect and I worry that it will be put on the back burner when they need to make more money and churn out other DLC. I think it's time we had some answers from a representative of DTG...
i wonder if all the trophy rewarding parts are fully functional when released tho, can't have a train driving simulator without the 'find the 25 broken / missing things on the route, and fix them for points' part working.
They probably picked Liverpool-Crewe to make the ol boss go down memory lane again. I think a less complex route would've made more sense as a test bed for steam. DTG are really good at shooting themselves in the foot. But hey they need the money as this is part of their business model so I am hardly surprised by the issues. People will buy it anyways as well so in the end Dovetail get what they want which is money. Mr. Krabs would be a really good CEO of Dovetail Games
I’m very much of the ilk it is what it is…. what we saw is what we get, don’t get what you’ll get expecting improvements until they’re on the roadmap. It’s too close to release with too much promo for any real changes. Anything that is missing is confined to the “it’s something we’d like to do but we have no plans cabinet”. Buy it or don’t buy it for what it is next Tuesday, not what we assume it should be (slowly closing wallet)
Maybe these issues if not sorted when it releases can be sorted after release during the down time dtg will do. We don't need another rush hour in which there is so much passion only for it to be spoiled with clear as day issues and bugs. I can't see how they can add last minute changes since the route will be out in 5 days. That's too close to release for any real changes unless they have a day one patch in the books
WHAT….NO COAL ON THE SHOVEL !!! I have to cancel my pre-order…. NOT! In several thousand hours in TSC, I have never seen a fireman shoveling, let alone worrying about whether the shovel had coal on it or not…. definitely was not “immersion breaking” for me. Of course I grew up where imagination was a required characteristic to have for entertainment. I can overlook an empty shovel for Pete’s sake.
It's surely not hard to put coal on the shovel. It is immersion breaking but it's also a fantastic asset that has not been seen by me before. That's me being nice and appreciative.. for once!
Remember that people don't have the same expectations as you so don't judge others for wanting coal in a shovel for god's sake.
The limiting factor in steam train range was always water, not fuel. Kettles went through prodigious amounts of the stuff, and it was always an issue (especially in the wide arid spaces of North America and Australia). So, did no-one ever attempt to build a locomotive with a condenser and feedwater recycling, like steamships?
im sure in an old stream either it was Matt or Sam (can’t quite recall but thinking it was Sam) confirmed the intention to stay away from 1930’s and 1940’s era of Germany it’s a shame from a train potential perspective, especially if it would leave out a certain class of trains service, but understandable from other perspectives
Quote from Matt on page 1 of this post... So the answer is "they're working on it"... see you in 2026 I guess
I know at least of the German Br 52, some of which had condensing tenders. A quick Google search seems to indicate that there were quite a few condensing locos in the UK as well.
Some of these may have been in use on the London Underground, where condensing was used to store steam which would then be vented in open topped stations or special vent points. There are even false houses on some fairly posh streets in London which hide such venting points
In South Africa we had the class 25 which came in a condensing version. They were used in the Karoo (very arid area) between Kimberley and De Aar which was the at the time the main line between Johannesburg and Cape Town. A little interesting fact of the class 25….they are on roller bearings, which made the ride extremely smooth, you didn’t get thrashed around like other locos of the time. Though this is really another topic for another time.
As an interesting aside, I took the 9F out for a spin on Port Road in TSC yesterday and it seemed pretty much impossible to defeat the AI fireman. He/she/it continually shovelling and the safety valves blowing off. Admittedly I wasn’t thrashing the guts out of it, 40% regulator at 35% cut off on the levels from Dumfries towards Gretna to maintain 45 MPH. So it does look as if TSW is not unique in having an over eager fireman.
I had a go on Port Road too, Stranraer Harbour incline is a nice tester, I used the JT 76017 standard class. I like the swishing movement of the steam coming from the safety valves because it makes you feel Iike it's windy. I wonder if that is represented on TSW2 with the steam leaning to one side if you turned the wind up in the settings?
The TSC auto-fireman after many years of fiddling is a bit of a hack where he will always keep the fire at maximum but the boiler pressure is locked off just below the first safety. If the safety is going off with auto-fireman then the loco script has been set up in some unusual way that that audio and visuals for the safeties trigger before the actual built in safety controls. The 9F although being a very nice model is really outdated as far as set up and features - someone should probably build a new one with all the variations (Crosti, Giesl, mechanical stoker, etc)
The thing about this is that the infrastructure for water refilling was very dense, almost every station had water cranes because it was rather easy and cheap to build. If you look at the examples of Br 52 and Class 25, the tenders are extremely complicated and were prone to malfunctions (at least on Br 52). It was easier to refill often than deal with what it took to keep the water in the loco. If they were made, it was because of demanding use. The Br 52 experiment was designed for long stretches of railroad in Eastern Europe and Russia. Class 25 as mentioned had to cross vast arid areas, where you needed to keep every drop you could. If they could've had the European water crane network, nobody would bother with this.
Interesting. That could indicate the TSW fireman scripting borrows heavily from the original RS/RW one.
Does coal consumption influence the medal you get at the end of the run? In the real world railways kept very detailed records of coal consumption for particular runs and particular firemen. The challenge of driving a steam locomotive is not to waste coal (and steam). If your loco was constantly blowing off in the real world you would be regarded as an idiot.
They have missed a trick in some ways as there are some amazing ideas like yours above that could really make it a task for getting a gold medal.
No I don't think it will be connected at all. Simugraph is a whole different beast and to be honest once they get it working and tuned for steam it could create the most accurate steam sim we've ever seen. For now I guess we are somewhat in a middle ground where the boiler and mechanisms are simulated but the firing is a temporary solution of "provide X amount of heat". Like I say it has the potential to be amazing when they plug in the module for firing but for now it's been left out to stop further delays. Whether that is the right way to go, I guess we will see. If this fails due to being more beta than complete, and being pessimistic, I fear we might get back to DTG's TSC mantra "steam doesn't sell".. which having made my sole living from selling TSC steam locos for the best part of 8 years, I call nonsense. You just need to do it right and give the people what they want.
That's partly why I've just rebought it. Not just the future of steam but classic diesel too - "The only thing that sells is modern Electrostar routes". I also want to see where they go with steam in Germany and a lesser extent the US, too. So as I said just now in the other thread, a leap of faith which I hope isn't misplaced.
True for Europe; but American railroads, at least the western ones, had to make very long runs between population centers through arid or outright desert terrain; in many cases the water tanks had to be replenished from tanker trains because there was no local source. Many towns and cities (Las Vegas is one) were originally established simply as water stops.
The Class 25s were tremendous locos, there's one at the Bucks Railway Centre (Quainton), though as it's 3'6" gauge, it's static and appears to deteriorate a little each year .
They certainly were! Would have loved to have fired one on a mainline trip and experience what the loco had to offer. The closest I got was lighting one up to do a steam test, but unfortunately I had to dump the fire after I saw that a boiler plug was loose and spewing steam once I started getting the pressure up. At least I got to experience hand firing it, with the size of that firebox, o my gosh…a lot of work! With the way the South African railway is, and is going, I don’t think we will ever see one running again…very sad.
A TSW South African route with the Class 25 steam locos would be awesome but probably too much to hope for from DTG’s very limited vision.
Any SA Route would be fantastic in TSW. I would be willing to put DTG in contact with some people that are extremely well connected with South African railway people, heritage and non heritage. The main issue would be sourcing sounds for pretty much anything that isn’t a 19D or a narrow gauge loco, as there is 1 preservation society left in the country who have a 19D, and then you have the narrow gauge guys who are privately funded with all there goodies.
There are several ex-SAR narrow gauge (2') locos at the Welsh Highland Railway. Two of the Garratts (NGG16) are runners.
