This Is How It Is Done !!! Rivet Take Note!!!

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by ghawk2005, May 30, 2022.

  1. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Armstrong Powerhouse released a new DLC pack yesterday. Within 24 hours they’d fixed a few very minor issues. TWENTY FOUR HOURS !

    Rivet, over 6 months and you have refused to update serious fundamental errors let alone stuff like slightly incorrect illuminating lamp angles etc etc. you are an utter disgrace to the whole Train Sim community The 150/2 is un-usable to anyone who has a faintest idea about the real units.

    77BFA95F-A763-4888-A3EC-01D6F07CFBB4.jpeg
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And should rivet also learn to make sure everyone has to use every other of their own products to use one scenario?
    I did the maths on one last week and to use one pack as intended by the author needed £500 of requirements
     
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  3. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I agree: 6 months+ is not accetable. Same thing for Skyhooks 187.

    But: Releasing updates on TSW is very different to TS - in TSW, you have to schedule the update with Sony and Mircosoft. While for TS, it's just Steam. That's no excuse why it should take more than 6 months, but expecting 24 hours for a non-gamebreaking bug is for console also not realistic.
     
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  4. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Dont play that scenario them simple
     
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You get about six scenarios in TSC with each asset, and surely if you're paying £25 for a DLC you would want to actually play it?
     
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  6. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about community scenarios? If yes, what has Rivet to do with that?
     
  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Hurrah, AP added a stripe to a coach. Where are they based, so I can send them a bunch of flowers?
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    AP don't make TSW content. The OP is comparing a company that makes content for TSC with Rivet (who do both), and if you're comparing companies then by all means compare everything they do (good and bad) not just one thing
     
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  9. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t matter whether it’s a train game, flight simulator, or whatever platform it’s for. I was pointing out the fact that they have sorted out minor tweaks ( because AP would never make stupid blundering errors in the first place like rivet did ) within 24 hours of the release, not 6 months.
     
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Without pointing out the glaring issues with their way of operating. It's called "picking and choosing for your own agenda"
    I know you want a better 150, but using a company that basically cash grabs with every DLC they put out probably isn't the best example of a company working for the player's advantage
     
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  11. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    No, scenarios supplied with AP products usually have a requirements list as long as your arm, filled with, frankly, unnecessary use of their own enhancement packs.

    OP - is fixing a couple small textures really comparable to a complete rewrite of a train's physics system? Also, I seem to remember when the 375 enhancement pack came out, it had a fair few errors and people generally said it didn't feel like they cared (although they still lapped it up and bought it in their droves because they could make a fortune by selling a luminous green cube on wheels). Maybe he isn't the God you all worship him as.
     
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  12. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Let DTG release a DLC with scenarios that require much additional payware and I am sure the community would become unhinged… then you can put forth this advice to calm the masses. I am sure that would solve the problem.
     
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  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I bet that cost an extra £7 per dlc to download that stripe expansion pack

    Eventually tsw will be like Apple Music and then we can all totally get moderator cool down periods and sulk off elsewhere :D:D
     
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  14. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    This comparison isn’t realistic or fair.

    In order for this to be a fair comparison, Armstrong Powerhouse would need to make a TSW DLC.
    This won’t be likely to happen because they can’t overcharge players and force them to own every piece of their content to run a 30 minute scenario with DTG in control of releases.

    I agree with you in that Rivet should be prioritising fixes for their content though. I avoid the 150 and choose to drive the 101 on WCL instead.
     
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  15. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Dtg have never and would never do that
     
  16. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Ap wont do it because they have no intentions of joining TSW 2
     
  17. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Wow, a red stripe. Too bad the entire pack is a pointless rip-off.
     
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  18. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    There is a solution for AP scenarios - TSTools for consist substitution. Admittedly, a few hours of trial and error sometimes
     
  19. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but if you want the extra detail's the more immersive experience you would purchase AP products.
     
  20. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    TS tools is a brilliant piece of software
     
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  21. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    We really need a facepalm emote - this is completely beside the point.

    If I complained about some restaurant food being bland, would you tell me to go and get some salt/herbs/spices/sauces (delete as appropriate) from the supermarket round the corner?

    Yeah, because people would descend on their offices with burning pitchforks, but it's fine for AP to do it because they're AP.
     
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  22. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I literally stated the obvious. TS tools is some cracking software. That is it, I am being honest and truthful, end of.
     
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  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Personally I have always considered AP stuff a bit over-rated. I certainly don’t think Wherry Lines was worth what they charged for it on first release, got mine when it ended up in a Steam sale. As I mentioned earlier the 170 may have good sounds but in Notches 1 to 6 they copied the same old TSC Voith setup (mistake) which gave each notch a maximum speed regardless of uphill, downhill or anything else. I bought their Class 205 DEMU and was actually very disappointed with the sounds, failing to capture that purring almost musical burble at full throttle.

    Some of their earlier sound packs were good, maybe they should have stuck to that.

    None of this lets Rivet off the hook, of course.
     
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  24. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Have a listen to the Valenta sound pack, there's no throbbing sound just the scream :/
     
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  25. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    If you want immersion ap is one of the top providers otherwixe stock DTG is there
     
  26. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t understand any of your comment. I never said AP complained about bland food
     
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  27. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    What? I was just giving an example of another situation applying the logic of the "you can just use TS Tools if you don't have all the things" argument when discussing the eye watering amount of dependencies of AP packs.
     
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  28. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    It's a clever business model if you ask me. Plus, it becomes more realistic and true to life the way AP does it.
     
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  29. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Yay! A new stripe! Boo, I need 25 more pieces of DLC in order to see said stripe.
     
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  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Right, many scenarios use AP enhancement packs as AI-only. How is that more realistic and true to life than simply providing a reskin in the extra stock download, or just using the default skin if it's the same (like the 365 in the Class 321 scenario on ECMLS)?
     
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  31. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    ?
     
  32. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    You dont actually the new mk3 pack dont need anything
     
  33. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I get that the way they do scenarios is annoying, but it seems a bit absolutist to immediately dismiss their ability to get a bug fix patch out in a timely manner because of that. AP has their strengths, and I don't think they should be dismissed because they have areas they're weak at.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
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  34. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never used their supplied scenarios - just use quick drive most of the time, Problem solved. Doesn’t get away from their attention to detail is absolutely exquisite
     
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  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For TSW2 they made the Class 465/9 Metro Cammell sounds not the BREL York version of Class 465/9.
     
  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The title of the post is "This is how it's done. Rivet take note" and then states one aspect of APs manner of publication of their work, leaving out many other things they do (reliance on dependancies, orphaning scenarios by removing their items from sale etc etc)
    So pointing out that reliance on one aspect is hardly "absolutist"
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Good for you! Most people want to use what they pay for.
     
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  38. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    You dont pay for the scenarios you pay for the ep/stock
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish. That's like saying when you buy a route DLC in TSW you don't pay for the time of the guy who did the timetables.

    Everything included in a DLC is included in the price
     
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  40. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Which is the main product ep/stock scenarios are just a side product to get you started
    Tsw timetable is completely different
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    How?
    Someone has spent time devising and making timetables and thus they get paid for it
    You're saying that the time and effort in making scenarios is unpaid...

    Maybe FOR YOU the only thing that matters is the loco / assets. For me, ANYTHING in the pack is included in the price, and that includes scenarios, so if I pay for them they should work
     
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  42. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    I completely understand where your coming from here and its annoying that this hasn't been fixed 6 month later but calling rivet a disgrace to the tsw Community is quite otp I think you might also want to take in consideration that in console updates have to go through Microsoft before that update can release I'm not sure if it's the same on PlayStation
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2022
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  43. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    If you want a realistic experience then you will need the extra stock otherwize you stick with the stock dtg provide
     
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  44. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    This is correct!

    Everything should work as a standalone product, not require £100s of other content to work. AP sell scenarios with big lists of requirements, separate from their DLC packs. Would it really hurt them to do some standalone scenarios for people to run what they just bought?

    Not everyone has the knowledge to do scenarios in TS. I like AP’s products but they are far from perfect in their business practices. There’s no entry level stuff for newcomers to AP products.

    If Dovetail were to copy AP’s business practice, all kinds of chaos would break loose! Sure, TSW content layers into other DLC but you can buy a route and be sure it’ll work without anything but the base game installed. The layers are a bonus for owning more content.

    Imagine DTG also charging for patches to their routes too.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    AP don't give you the choice. They have their requirements or you F2 past it and possibly break the scenario or you have to do your homework and start using 3rd party software to swap out stock (presuming you know your stock list and how to swap things properly)
     
  46. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Yhen you would call ap not realistic ap provide 3 scenarios for you yo get started if people want standalone workshop is there if you want good quality 3rd part stock AP JT and ATS are there everone knows ts is not a cheap hobby just like flight sim
     
  47. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Whether you don’t want to use scenarios, have the right stock or willing to pay £3000 per DLC, this is NOT the topic of discussion or the point of this thread. The point was that they UPDATE QUICKLY AFTER NOTICING A BUG OR SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FIXING. Rivet doesn’t
     
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  48. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Wow, people not staying on topic…. What a revelation, but would recommend decaf instead of yelling at the community… :).

    I agree, quick fixes would be welcomed in a variety of situations,
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That was your point, yes. Missing out the remainder of the nonsense that is NOT the way we want Rivet to be acting
     
  50. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    There is no nonsense with AP. Fantastic company. End of !!
     
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