A Warning If You're Thinking Of Buying The Vr Br103tee In The Current Pro-line Sale.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gazz292, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    I got caught out the other day, i love to drive "virtual railroads expert line" locos, they are german loco's that have been scripted to behave as close to the real loco's as you can get within the limits of train simulator,

    I already own their versions of the BR103 ORot and the E03, they share the common scripts and hence features and complexity, they even share the same inputmapper file,
    So when i saw the vR BR103TEE in the pro-line sale for 6 quid, i snapped it up.

    103tee.jpg

    It should basically be a re-skin of the vR BR103 ORot i already own, but it's not.

    First thing i noticed, it didn't install in the usual 'virtualrailroads' folder in the steam assets folder, instead in a new folder called "vR_Addon6"

    So i started one of the supplied scenarios with it in, and was greeted with the outside view of the loco with the rear pantograph shooting up in like half a second,
    On the real loco it takes about 5 seconds to raise fully, and the genuine vR version does the same.

    So, i go through the usual start up procedure... or i try to, and i realise that about 80% of the switches are not working, either from keyboard presses or mouse clicks / drags.

    The loco is already started up and you just have to release the brakes, put the reverser into forwards (noting the "M" position is missing) and notch up the regulator wheel, the regulator brake interlock doesnt work properly.
    You can notch up with the brakes applied, and upon releasing them it will accelerate away, and apply the brakes whilst still under power, as long as you dont come to a full stop the main power contactor doesnt drop out, and the tap changer doesnt notch back to zero, so you can accelerate away again after releasing the brakes.

    The only power related switches that seems to be modeled are the main power switch and panto switch,
    there is no cold start procedure, or the automatic start up function, as this version of the loco doesnt have those features.

    The manuals.. the TEE has had "_steam" added to the end... and it's been edited to remove the references to the removed switches and features.
    It's basically had all the good stuff removed and turned into a typical dumb loco, that is not what virtual railroads loco's are about at all.

    The folders of the loco reveal whats missing, no modules in the scripts folder for the LZB, PZB, MFA, power interlocks, panto pre-select and so on,
    Hell, this version of the loco doesnt even have a working LZB system... that is the only thing i noticed after buying it that gives away on the sale page that this isnt a genuine vR expert line loco,

    The inputmappers are different between the genuine and 'steam' version.. 974 lines against 1117 on the genuine vR 103.
    Yet they share the same <RemapperName d:type="cDeltaString">BR103_Expert</RemapperName> between all 3 of the BR103's i now own.

    Of course, it's a digital product, i've loaded it onto my system so have agreed to be ineligble for a refund, but how are you supposed to find out that the add on you bought isnt the one it made out to be?


    Sorry for ranting on, but this has really got to me, the only saving grace... the RheinGold coaches supplied still have their TAV door close / interlock functions present.. BUT, the TEE loco has had the door close / interlock function removed!!! FFS



    if anyone is interested, this is a cold start and drive procedure for a "true" vR version of the BR103... it's what you come to expect of vR locomotives.
    • Battery switch on
    • Preform an instrument lamp test
    • Air compressor start up
    • Pre select which pantograph to raise, limited to 110kmh and in icy conditions only if you select both to be up
    • Raise the panto.. with the reverser lever / direction switch in the correct (M / cab only) position and air pressure over 8 bar
    • Brake lever to 4.7 bar setting, only after the main pressure has reached 10 bar
    • Release the handbrake
    • Main switch on
    • Turn on the safety systems (Direction switch in correct position again) PZB, Sifa and LZB if needed
    • Select the correct mode for the PZB system
    • Headlights on
    • Instrument lights on if dark or going in tunnels, same for cab / desk light
    • Wipers on if needed.. select which wiper (left or right) and the wiper speed you want for each wiper
    • Reverser / direction switch to V / forwards
    • Transformer switch to correct setting (120 / 140 kmh) for your speed over the next section of line
    • Release brakes
    • Turn traction motor blowers switch on or to automatic position
    • Apply power, only when the brake interlock has released
    • Notch up and watch the ammeter, apply too much power too soon and you'll trip the overload
    • Operate the Sifa reset every 30 seconds or so, or brakes will apply
    • Respond to the PZB magnets on the route, get down to the speed needed within the brake curve or get an emergency stop
    • Need to pass a signal at danger, hold the PZB 'Befehl - 40' button as you pass the danger signal, or emergency brake application, and don't excede 40kmh for the next couple of klicks.
    • Notch down well in advance of needing to brake, takes 30 seconds to notch down to zero from top notch
    • Don't apply the brakes untill traction power is off, or you'll trip the main switch etc
    • After braking, you have to wait for the main pipe pressure to raise and brake cylinders to release..watch the gauges.. Traction current contactor wont pull in till brakes fully released.
    • Stop at a station, open the doors... wait for the Zp9 starting signal (whistle usually) and press the close doors switch
    • Wait for the doors closed and locked "T"light to light up solid to release the interlock.
    • And so on.. there's even random faults that can happen anytime during a run.. i get one prolly every 12 or so runs i do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  2. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    Just discovered something even more annoying,

    As all vRBR103's and the E03 share the same input mapper file... i.e. in all loco's "inputmappers" folder, they are all called 'BR103_Expert) and in the actual bin / xml file, they are called the same, it means the different locos try to use eachothers input mappers,

    that's no issue for genuine vR BR 103's... as they all have the usual vR expert control scheme.. where space is Sifa Reset, Q and E are regulator increase and decrease, and so on,

    the 'fake' vR BR103TEE however has the stock railworks inputmapper.... space is horn, Q is sifa reset etc,
    what happens tho is that map is ignored, and the TEE uses the vR map from the other loco's, which is great, it gives me the vR style controls i'm used to,

    However... some of the inputmapper's entries are slightly different,

    as the TEE has had the good bits of script removed, the panto and main switch dont work properly, due to the TEE reading the other input mapper files.

    So:

    on the genuine vR 103's, main switch on / off is scripted as an "IncreaseControlStart", and "DecreaseControlStart" call.
    But on the TEE, it's given just a "ToggleControl" same for the panto.

    Hence, in the TEE i can raise the panto, and turn the main switch on using the keyboard... but cant lower the panto or turn the switch off other than by using the mouse, this is because the TEE's inputmapper is listed as the stock vR one
    "<RemapperName d:type="cDeltaString">BR103_Expert</RemapperName>"



    I'm not sure where abouts in the files the call is made to read which inputmapper file... as i'd need to give the TEE it's own inputmapper name ""BR103TEE_Expert", then change where ever in the loco files it calls upon that mapper, i suspect it might be in the engine script, which is an encrypted lua file of the .out filename, so can't be changed easily.

    Anyone know what i need to change to alter which input mapper file this loco works with?
     
  3. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    If I remember the discussion way back a few years ago, VR had to make those changes so the TEE could be distributed via Steam. DTG wanted consistency on such things across the different locomotive lines. And from a support point of view - it makes sense.
     
  4. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    Would have been very nice if steam / dovetail store warned people they were not buying the fully featured vR version of the loco,

    It's in the pro-line sale... Pro line is supposed to be loco's that are more prototypical to the real thing, the BR112.1 i got in the sale (also from vR) is just as expected, you have to dance your fingers across the keyboard to drive it, and reading the manual is not optional unless you drive the real thing.

    I can understand needing some consistency across controls, that's why the vR expert line loco's keep the A / D regulator commands as well as their Q / E ones, and most of their loco's have a fast start up key (Control Z) where it automatically goes through the start up procedure for you, even puts the headlights and wipers on for you, after that you release the brakes and drive.

    .But these are expert line / pro line versions of the locos... they are supposed to be hard to drive, that's part of the fun, mastering the controls, safety systems, interlocks, random faults etc,


    i know some people play in model train mode, aka stop - go mode, to those types these loco's wont be for them... but there are plenty of dumb 'press a button and go' loco's out there for them.

    ok it was only 6 quid (plus the 4 quid i wasted buying a loco that i unknowingly already had as part of a route) but if i had been warned i was not buying the genuine vR version, i'd have put the money towards buying a different loco in the sale,

    Now i'm very weary of trusting a dovetail sale again, might have to wait for the xmas sale vR do each year... it was back in 2014 i think that they did the advent calender thing and gave away the E03 for free... the full complex expert line version no less,
    it was that loco which got me into the expert line range, i now have 16 of their products (average price 20 euro's a go for loco's)... well, 15 really, as i dont count the BR103TEE as one of their expert line products at all.
     
  5. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    The BR103 was not originally submitted as TS-Pro. TS Pro was not there as the 103 goes onto Steam. DTG later puts all non basic standard Locos into the Pro Range, even such ones that not really pro.
     
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  6. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    that explains a lot, thank you.

    i am sure i will buy the 'real' 103 TEE expert line from your shop before the end of the year, it's such a nice looking loco especially in those colours.
     

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