Open Letter To Dtg Part Two (qa Issues)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by tsw2, May 31, 2022.

  1. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Sorry, im less enthusiastic about waiting another 4-6 months for a update that might fix a bug or two and break 5 other essential things.
    I would be very enthusiastic about these updates if DTG would have actual QA.

    And always remember:
    Many of these updates wold not been needed if routes were not released with massive bugs and missing features to begin with or if working stuff (sounds) not got broken a year or two ago through "updates".
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,931
    Likes Received:
    23,954
    I think you miss the point. Their updates are breaking as much as they fix a lot of the time.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  3. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2021
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    214
    JD, I know you mean well and your corporate rambling on it's made a net positive effect, however this is now the second open letter to DTG regarding the state of the game.
    If the game was created and QA'd correctly and thoroughly across all routes etc. The majority of the bugs would have been captured, why are you blatantly ignoring your customers?
    The customers are always right as the cliche goes. For new gamers who may read these letters, surely they would like it's not worthwhile of their money.
    It's time to get your head out of the sand, grow a pair and ensure these basic bugs can never reoccur.
    For example the derailing bug.... I mean, wow how on earth did no one in your company (approx 300 people) + external QA, maybe another 50 not spot it.
    Your words are welcome, however carry virtually no weight unless action is taken.
    I will end this critique by saying I enjoy the game personally, although it is irritating when the game seems to be be slipping back to the bad old days.

    You can and have done better than this.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    199
    so i hope that they fix the new problems in the next update
     
  5. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    199
    if i remember right DTG will release frequently updates from now on.
     
  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,931
    Likes Received:
    23,954
    We want a stable product that doesn’t need regular fixes and DLC that’s not rushed to release, incomplete and full of bugs (like SoS) with vague promises it will be put right then eventually shuffled off to the Preservation Crew like an unwanted orphan.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Inclined to agree with that man. I initially refunded sos but then thought I'd give it more time ( you won and took my cash) but I genuinely can't think of any other products I buy expecting them to have issues. I know it's software but the attempts on streams to "ok " and "we know about them" statements of normalisation are not acceptable. When is Paul Jackson coming on stream with the corporate line? I guess at 8pm on the 2nd of never.

    Matt, Jd, nothing personal, I really like both you guys and have watched and played for years but come on, you must be sick to death of thinking "here we go again", another "we know we must do better stream"

    Either qa really need their heads kicking around f the room for not picking up on things a community member can 5 mins into a stream, cost needs to go up or more testing time.

    Releasing your biggest venture for a year with this odd derailment bug and palming it's off as being fixed isn't right. It shouldn't be there if you know about it prior to release. Someone really needs to start kicking the accountants back into touch about the impact of releasing bugs vs the impact of releasing a more robust (yes I know there comes a point where it costs DTG) route
     
    • Like Like x 6
  8. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    The fact some dude called TSW2 decide to make an Thread called Open letter to DTG Part 2
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    18,142
    I find it ironic that not only are updates severely delayed, but they also introduce new bugs, which are spotted in less than 5 minutes after playing the game by the community.

    If there was any sort of proper testing going on, then these bugs would’ve been spotted straight away. I find it hard to believe that these bugs simply ‘slip through the net’ when they are so glaringly obvious.

    What actually happens when these updates are taking months to release? I believe they’re just sitting there, with no one actually looking at them. Perhaps a 5 minute quick look over before they decide to finally release them.

    Time and time again we’re told things will improve with DTG saying they’ve learnt their lessons but here we are, with absolutely nothing learnt or changed.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  10. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    ...to make it even worse. The reason the updates got delayed was said to be because they needed more "testing".

    The fact that we have MISSING SOUNDS since basically a year on some routes can only be explained by two things (imagine a Shooter game with missing gun sound):
    a) The profit is still good enough so no one really cares
    b) They care but the code is a mess and every slight breeze might make it crumble (for example, adding a Sound may lead to Crashes or Passengers flying around). And therefore they are careful not to touch certain things.

    Whats funny about the Sound things and "Not enough Channels"...
    It seems there are enough channels to give me very loud bird sounds (!) on Hamburg Luebeck while drinving 160kmh inside an ICE but not enough to give the RT 442 and 182 a rolling sound? Or joint sounds on SOS?

    You would think. If they can get it right once, why cant they always get it right?
    Its strange that they can release a route with working crossing and then a route with missing crossing right after and while trying to patch that they break something else. Its just really strange.

    But i also have to give them credit. The last two german routes released were really good out of the box (they still had some of the usual bugs of course). But since they seem so inconsistent in their quality, who knows what comes next. I would hope to see an upward trend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 5
  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    The German routes seem to get the most love and attention for some reason hence why the quality is usually good although Riesa-Dresden does have stability issues on consoles. Perhaps the people who make them have more passion than those who make British and U.S routes.

    I do find missing sounds odd. It's a similar situation with the M7A on Harlem line in which the propulsion sounds in the first two cars are there but then they will fade away in the last 4-6 cars on the unit. That doesn't happen in real life. I find it hard to believe that nobody at DTG didn't notice that issue yet instead of fixing it, they just released it anyway. That's pure negligence that a obvious bug on the base train of a route was allowed to be released without being fixed. They say they have a QA team but these issues are exactly why some frankly don't believe they do have one.

    Also I did have a run on Rapid Transit and I experienced the same bugs that have been reported. I play on Xbox Series X so this isn't exclusive to the PC only
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    If Dovetail don't get their act together, there could be a part 3 ;)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Another example:
    The DB 182 for RT has no rolling sound but somehow i can hear loud wind gusts even if i set the game to no wind? How?

    Another example:
    Why does DTG insist on having like 12 different variants of the Doppelstockwagen and 4 different variants of the 442?
    Why not only have one (the most up to date and best) and just have different liveries? This basically tells me there is a fundamental flaw in how modular the engine is and the engine basically has to be used in a way its not supposed to be to work with the TSW2 DLC concept.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Well the 442s are somewhat different. The one in ska has a different interior to that of the one in RT for example so it isn't a case of use the most up to date and slap a different livery on it.

    You do have a point about the dostos though. There is no reason really to have different versions of the dostos when they are pretty much the same train. There should be a base and then any improvements to the base get added to the routes that it runs on
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    The worst part is theres no easy way to even determine which Dosto you are selecting unless you use a mod, before I found this I quite often ended up selecting the wrong livery and having a Dresden liveried unit on SKA for example.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2021
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    517
    Please don't open that box again. I don't know if you are aware of how many times this has been brought up on this forum and elsewhere before.
    Even if this was a possible thing to do (what I strongly doubt from what has been said about the architechture of the game), I wouldn't want them to do it.

    More likely than not we'd end up with one vehicle that combines all the quirks and flaws of all the perviously versions in one.

    And I personally am quite happy that I can check out all the different versions of – say – AFB/cruise control, train control systems, brake setups, PIS, lighting.. look at the develpment over time.. and pick the version with the - according to my personal stardards - least annoying set of bugs and inconsistencies (like some people are triggered big time by wrong or missing sounds, for others - like me - the performance of the train control systems and cab instruments is much more important).

    This is definetely true, though. It should not be up to a mod to tell them apart, the game should do that for you.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2018
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    910
    Tbh, I'd rather they did it and save myself quite a few gigabytes of data, rather than have DTG continuously bloat my hardrive because they can't be bothered to maintain a common architecture for rolling stock... and have disrepencies between the same loco in the different routes.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    The point i make is not "how important are sounds to certain players".
    The point i make is: How can DTG still mess up the sound when they do Train games since 10 years and Unreal based TSW games since 5 years and many time got the sounds working. So how do they srew them up that bad other times?
    This should not be a thing. Once they have done it right once it should always work (not talking about odd bugs here and there).

    The thing is the inconsistency of their work (and the rather low quality standards and QA on average but thats another topic).
    So you can jump from a train with good fully working sounds to one thats missing half the sounds and something like this should not happen after 5 years of experience with the Unreal engine. I mean yeah if DTG would be an indie dev team with 5 people ok, but they are not.

    The whole Dosto thing is just a joke at this point, i must have 12 different versions installed that basically look and feel all the same and im unable to tell the difference because DTG in their unlimited wisdom gave them all the same name ingame, they could at least add a flag so i can see which version i have selected in the display corner (like SKA, HRR).

    For the 442, ok if they have a different interior. But then please update them all with the latest (best) sounds and physics. But the way DTG approached the Unreal engine, this seems not possible form them.

    Also the skybox thing...
    Before the skybox upgrade all routes had the same bad skybox.
    I dont understand why it can not be updates for all on the same time?
    Its almost as if every route ever released is a seperate game with a seperate dev team and code organization. There seems no library, no consistency
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    In my opinion the worst blunder with sound is in Brighton Main Line, where in the 387 (and I think the 377 as well) the AWS and Vigilance can't be heard if there are too many other sounds playing at the same time. After learning that I lost hope on whatever system they are using to make sounds.

    My expectations for anything related to sound that isn't a TSG add-on is usually extremely low.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  20. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2021
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    517
    I don't challenge your point at all, you are completely right, things like this should not happen. And I share your frustration and disappointment.

    My point is though, let's please keep the different versions in the game, so from all the not-perfect versions I can choose the one that I can still have the most fun playing.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    There’s enough negativity around right now but in the spirit of this thread, I’ll get this off my chest this once as I’ve been carrying it around for a while.

    I’d really rather have Adam’s updates not released at this point. No offence to Adam, it’s obvious he’s passionate about his work and I’m sure his team are as well. But for every bug fixed and every feature implemented, they seem to break 10 new things and it’s Russian roulette whether the new issues will be fixed. I’m not looking forward to his updates. Instead, I’m afraid of how much worse his updates will make my experience.

    I don’t know what is going wrong - whether Adam’s work is sloppy, QA doesn’t do their job properly, management doesn’t assign enough resources to fix what comes out of QA, … What I do know is that the quality of the updates must improve and I’m certain that it won’t because his first updates to RT and LIRR were plagued by the same issues.

    And while we’re on it, I strongly disagree with the focus of Adam’s team. It seems like their main purpose is to implement new features and old bugs are only fixed if there’s time left over and they’re not too big. When Adam’s team was established, I was hoping they’d really polish old routes instead of adding (in my opinion) often unnecessary and gimmicky features (while also adding new bugs). Did the RT Talent 2 desperately need dynamic PIS screens? I don’t know, you tell me. Do PIS screens and working level crossings improve a route? Of course. Would I rather have Adam focus on bugs and issues instead? Certainly.

    That’s not even mentioning the sometimes sloppy implementation of new features. Once upon a time, Adam said they’d implement LZB on the older rolling stock. He also said they had done so. Only issue is that it’s actually completely broken and un-useable on every single loco they apparently implemented it on. Sloppy work, QA issue, …? I don’t know. That’s for DTG to find out.

    Rant over.

    Tldr: I’m not satisfied with the quality of Adam’s patches and someone should finally investigate and fix(!) what’s going wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  22. GooseWaffe

    GooseWaffe Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2021
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    36

    Xbox has betas now, it's a whole Beta program, forgot how to access it tho
     
  23. peterchambers

    peterchambers Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    149
    I have for long felt embarrassed for the team members who either write on here or who appear on streams. I do not know what their positions are in the company. Sometimes I feel they are like soldiers on the Somme pitched into a battle that can never be won. I have a nephew who worked very happily in a games software company where he and his colleagues were required to make quality. They went to very great lengths to achieve this. The company was taken over relatively recently and the bottom line became more important than the quality. He and his colleagues did indeed become embarrassed by the required product and are all seeking to leave for a company with higher values. They seek to escape the same process that led to to the Boeing 737 Max failures that led to many deaths. Needless to say I am deleting TSW2 and using TSC exclusively until something better comes along. I agree with the poster who suggested that TSW2 was discontinued and TSC be revamped - BUT it would have to be taken over by another company.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. peterchambers

    peterchambers Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    149
    Also, I assume that people on this forum are enthusiasts and have railway experience. What we think does not matter as long as the vast majority are happy to buy and enjoy what we see as a flawed product. This makes us, as well as sub-managerial staff, like Soldiers on the Somme trying to fight something that cannot be fought. Such a fight, as Black Adder said, is like a broken pencil. POINTLESS !!!
     
  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    I remember there being a "standard route feature " list being badged about. This is clearly not working, we're almost on the cusp of a dlc being released and the train not being included or picked up by QA :D
     
    • Like Like x 3
  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Thank you so much! I've been trying 3 or so times to write a message almost exactly like this, but always ended up deleting it shortly after posting as it felt like I couldn't put into words what I was feeling and every time it turned into a "talking to myself rant which wasn't at all constructive - nor well written for that matter" but it seems like you almost managed to read my mind and managed to write a well thought out summary of how I felt about the recent updates.

    If I could like this post x1000 I would, thank you.

    It's ludicrous that the Talent has a half-broken PIS while the speedo in the BR182 is still inaccurate for example. Or that some level crossing can be heard from 2km away... Also that we still have to open the doors on the wrong side of the train in Hagen, or the n.2 cab of the BR155 has broken PZB. They need to sort their priorities.

    And don't get me started on how the Traxx STILL doesn't effectively have LZB even after they had the chance to actually implement it on both BRD and the Expansion Pack.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 6
  27. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    I agree with what you say but there is one upgrade to older routes i would consider a "must have" for all older routes.

    Thats the skybox.

    The old skyboy is absolutely atrocious to look at. After seeing the new one (thanks by the way to the original modder) i cant even look at it for longer then one minute. Then i stop playing and start another run on a route that has the new skybox.
    And no, thats not me joking. I just cant look at that "thing" ("skybox").
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    As i said many times already. Its absolutely ridiculous.
    If you would tell someone who does not know DTG, TSW or Train Simulator about such bugs that are still present in the game after YEARS or introduced by the newest update and will probably take 6 months to fix...he would think you are making stuff up.
    But thats the reality of TSW and its sad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  29. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    I sort of agree. I think the only actually important features that should be ported to older routes are:

    • On station (not train!) PIS to aid navigation if you play as a passenger*
    • Skybox - it's a drastic improvement for the (I assume) low effort/time needed to implement it
    • Climb up to every point of the platform
    Apart from these there are some route specific additions that should happen (i.e. the water in SFJ) but apart from that I can live without crossings and wet platforms...

    *Edit: changed my mind on this, we survived before it was a thing and I can live without it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Frankly it would be better to have the best version of the train as the only option. We shouldn't have several versions that are worst in my opinion
     
    • Like Like x 5
  31. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    853
    Maybe the issue is that too much stuff is being bundled together in each patch release? Maybe the route needs to be made stable first, THEN you add on the skybox. Once that's sat for a week or two and people aren't reporting that the ground is now entirely invisible, add the platform climbing mechanic. Release it. Let it sit for a week or two and make sure it hasn't inexplicably turned all of the passenger models inside-out. And so on and so forth.

    Yes, it sucks that the entire DLC then needs to be re-downloaded each time. But I'd rather have incremental patches that add one feature, or a couple of smaller bug fixes, at a time, and some semblance of stability, than a ton of features added at once with no idea what the cause of new errors or problems is.

    DTG, your QA is terrible. I've bought most (but admittedly not all) of the DLC that you've released. I am not opening my wallet again until there are some actual visible changes to how fixes are tested and released, because what happens if and when one of your 'patches' renders a route DLC unplayable? Are you going to refund me for it? Or will I have to wait another eighteen months for another hotfix to wriggle its way through the pipeline?
     
    • Like Like x 10
  32. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    I agree with you both regarding the skybox - the new one is vast improvement over the old one and should be integrated in a reasonable timeframe (i.e. with enough QA and time to fix issues afterwards) on all routes.


    They probably just copied Adam’s LZB set-up since “Adam’s done it already” while not realising (if we give them the benefit of doubt) or not caring that it’s completely broken. One thing’s for certain though - no one can seriously try to tell us that LZB was tested.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  33. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2021
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    517
    Well..
    judging from the experience with the most recent couple of updates it is most probably time to accept that this game, that is running

    on 50ish different DLCs (some of them made by third party developers),
    across 7ish platforms (including consoles from two different generations),
    on a graphics engine it was not designed for originally,
    using an unknown number of versionized subsystems (for the dispatcher, train ai, signalling, etc.) and
    a plethora of individual fixes and workarounds

    has come to a level of complexity where every change made at one end has unforseen (and most probably unwanted) effects at another. So the fixing-testing-remonstrating-cycle can most probably be repeated virtually without end.

    What is a pity, because it's a really beautiful game, created with a lot of enthusiasm, and I still enjoy playing it very much.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  34. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    395
    I don't want to add more wood to the fire but I think it's important DTG realise how much these issues are affecting us as well as their sales. I too have ceased buying DLC until quality across the board improves. I have around 75-80% of DLC's released, and as a matter of fact truly regret a lot of those. It's such a shame that such a statement has to be made with regards to a game, something which should intend to give us fun and joy. I share the views of all the issues that have been mentioned so far, and so there's no need to repeat them, but I will say that I find it sad that instead of DTG carrying the trophy of being the pretty much only fully useable (by those who's passion is trains and those who just want some fun) train sim, they are rather seemingly completely slacking or just don't seem to give a toss. I want to believe they have the passion that some of us here have, but when you compare our reactions to theirs, there is a clear difference. I haven't been around a million different dev forums, but I will say from September (when I started playing) up until now, I have never seen a company give out so many excuses, or repeatedly be forced to say "we'll do better". DTG you're not doing better. Maybe you're really trying to, but you're not. We are so disappointed because we expect much, not just based on our own general expectations, but also from your words. Surely it gets to a point where you notice this and tell yourselves that some things have to change in order to hit the target you're aiming for. There have been a few examples here of what could be done internally so again I won't repeat them.

    But the reality is, as long as the money's coming in, nothing HAS to change from a company perspective, even if customer satisfaction is not satisfaction at all. So I'll conclude by saying that I really am hopeless that the game will improve, I genuinely expect bugs to appear from "fixes", and I remain feeling lucky when it somehow all goes right. What a shame.
     
    • Like Like x 14
  35. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Well, i work in tech, but not in software and im close to QA.
    We did a lot of changes, small ones because of customer feedback and complaints. Not doing these would probably have no impact on our sales since we are a rather big company. But we have some pride in our products and work and if we see a issue we fix it and dont wait and see if the customer notices or if we loose money by not fixing it.

    And that how most software and games devs also operate. Unfortunately not all.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  36. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    DTG definitely can do good stuff when they try. The APT for Train Simulator is spectacular and possibly the best thing they've ever made. The TSW2020 days were also filled with generally good content, definitely better than what we have now. Since TSW2 released the game has been on a downward spiral. I too have stopped buying stuff for TSW2 because I don't expect a good experience anymore, and I don't expect DTG to make the right choices either. I no longer trust DTG. When the sole developer of Railroads Online can create a more fun and better looking game pretty much by himself it makes me wonder what in the world DTG are doing. They're at least AA sized, they should not be outpaced by one man. The whole situation just makes me think...
    6806CA5A-B9FF-440A-9767-DDC53B46BA2C.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 8
  37. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    I am happy that the community is making clear to DTG that the direction TSW and its DLC has to turn around 180°.

    To add to what me and Lamplight said already, I knew what I was buying when I bought it, and I'd rather it stay the same compared to playing Russian roulette (with more bullets compared to empty chambers) to see if the route I like is one that actually got improved instead of butchered.

    I would lie if I said that I didn't appreciate the RT timetable, but with hindsight, knowing I got it at the cost of an unusable (for me) BR182, Broken talent for a few months, followed by the same Talent being broken in a different way, I would have rather have the old timetable and the good old trains. Again, I knew what I was buying when I bought it, and I knew that DLCs in the coming years were going to be better.

    As I said on an old Rivet thread, my only expectation in terms of old DLC is doing "basic maintenance" to make sure it works even if a core update introduces new DLC-specific bugs, like for example Arosa that suffered a few bugs after one of the majors updates. Nothing more.

    After the apologetic and sincere roadmap stream where they talked about releasing Adam's updates and making sure they passed thorough QA I was hoping that the situation improved, but we are back at the beginning, when each update makes me anxious to start the game, not happy.

    I waited for months to still have the same old bugs, plus more bugs for the price of a slightly updated RSN. If those are the so long awaited Adam's updates I'd also rather not have them, with all due respect to him and his team.

    I was so excited about the new "German" and "American" route, but now they really have to be excellent for me to buy them, AND have new rolling stock. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
    • Like Like x 9
  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    18,142
    So what’s actually going to happen now, as DTG constantly keep going round and round in circles? Another apology stream saying that they’ve learnt their mistakes and will do better next time by any chance?
     
    • Like Like x 8
  39. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    578
    Let's have part 3 handled by the preservation crew :P
     
    • Like Like x 3
  40. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    If we get another 90-120min "roadmap" stream where all that happens is Matt and Adam try and justify what happened with the last update and how things are going to get better and they've learnt lessons I will switch off. And if Matt even looks like he's going to break into another smirk or try laughing it off I will scream.

    Sorry but it needs real change not just empty promises about how it won't happen again (until the next update).

    Right now it doesn't matter how amazing these news routes could be, like SoS they won't be purchased at this time by me.

    My wallet is remaining firmly shut until DTG get their house in order, and seemingly from this thread I am definitely not alone in this which should concern the accountants and share holders.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  41. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    That's a good stance, I'll see what happens next in terms of updates, if HRR and RT are promptly fixed it will definitely make the decision to purchase those DLC easier. I'll see how I feel when they release.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  42. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2018
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    910
    I think downward spiral is a bit of a hyperbole... there have even been some interesting U-Turns from DTG. And there are several aspects about Railroads Online that infuriated me when I last tried it (Christmas).

    Buuuut in general I do agree, and the changes haven't made as much of an impact as DTG would like. Core problems appear to be

    - Lack of common architecture/shared assets for routes and locos
    - Poor design choices back from early TSW days
    - Range of DLC now too large for DTG to realistically sustain/maintain for the upcoming years as new technology rolls in
    - TSC mentality dripping through into TSW (i.e. Having to push a route out regardless of asset quality or critical existing bugs).
    - Subjectively... some poor art and ui direction.

    If I get something on stream on Tuesday along the lines of "We did not foresee SOS derailments and spads as such a big issue..." I'll bang my head on my table.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  43. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Oh god , yes I don't want another American train I already have with a different horn
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,782
    What we need is a TSC 2 with up to date graphics and the TSW2 benefits such as walking around and better physics once put properly into simugraph. The lack of ability for users to create content is a huge issue coupled with it breaking everytime something else is fixed. I am having fun with SoS but that isn't to say its without fault. I drive a local stopper and an express from London gets stopped for me to proceed first. No way would that have happened on BR in the 50s. The Signalmen concerned would have been severely reprimanded. There is much else I could point out but others have beaten me to it.

    I guess if it sells well then TSW2 has a future of sorts. If though it dives then who knows what happens next....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Not going to happen - more of an impossibility than DTG not wanting to.
     
  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    If they do another stream like this and they act like they didn't notice the issues, I'll smash the dislike button and perhaps even turn off the stream.

    The last route dlc I bought for this game was Southeastern High Speed last year. I was gonna buy rush hour but that put me off completely because of the issues and bugs. I was even thinking about getting Harlem since it's kinda like my local line when I go see family in White Plains and Brewster but the propulsion cut out in the last 4-6 cars of the M7A put me off completely. The only DLC'S I've purchased for this game were HMA, SEHS, Dresden-Chemnitz and the Class 313 because the DLC's that I was interested in were in a condition that isn't worth spending $30. The fact that new dlc's get released with blatantly obvious issues like the propulsion issue on the M7A is unacceptable. Not to mention DTG haven't explained why that issue occurs. Basic bugs should fixed asap. Not take several months to fix.

    It's good to remember though that now SOS is out, this is DTG's downtime period in which they committed to fixing the game up as much as possible so I am cautiously optimistic that they will improve the game since there aren't any new dlc's expected for a while. But my wallet will continue to be zipped shut until improvements come.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  47. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    You better be happy if the horn works at all and does not become one of the MIA sounds.

    The next roadmap stream should be interesting, but i guess we will get 90% talk about SOS and 10% sorry we will do better and we know we have said this before but this time we really mean it™
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  48. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,054
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    When I first saw your post I actually swore several times but think you have a point and DTG needs to listen

    I got into TSW2 because of the GWE route and a few months ago stopped playing the game as I'm waiting for the updates but what you wrote is making me think there is definitely something wrong with DTG's testing. A few weeks ago DTG were supposed to do a stream featuring the new GWE updates with Jamie doing it. Then all of a sudden it was cancelled with the excuse that Jamie was ill.

    I'm starting to think maybe they have found something wrong with the GWE and that's why it was cancelled. This route was supposed to be Adam's greatest work but they seem now very silent on this. Also Sam mentioned on a stream DTG had lost some staff to team 17 I think, were these QA staff.

    I used to think Adam was good at his job but all these bugs with other routes says otherwise I hope this is a blip cause I and others have waited long enough for this updates, it is getting embarrassing now. I'm pleased to hear others have stopped buying DLC as I have, all we can hope for is DTG move on this and fast, like starting this week.

    DTG like to go on about their 'bean counters' and yes DTG have to make money to go forward. If DTG would put more serious thought into QA testing it would save them money in the long run as they could fix the game before release. I wish they remember it is us the consumer who has to pay for these DLC's so give us something worthy.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    What is team 17? I keep hearing this reference but don't know what it is
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    1,765
    Team 17 is a games developer based in Wakefield, West Yorkshire (although they now have offices in Nottingham and Manchester). They have been around since 1990 and make games such as Worms, Alien Breed, Overcooked and The Escapists.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page