Update For West Cornwall Local?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by AirbourneAlex, Apr 19, 2022.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen any notice of updates
     
  2. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Not aware of an update. But "bescot" made a correction to notch 1 & 2 in his mini sound mod, which brings the 150 a lot closer to reality.

    Big thanks to our modders, who compensate the "lazyness" of certain companies with their free time, while others got the cash.
     
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  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I have tried it with AND without the mod. Even downloaded and reinstalled the whole original .park again and it was acting like this by default. When I installed bescot’s mod a few months back it made no difference to the high end throttle ‘ acceleration behaviour so I reckon someone at DTG has probably made a sneaky tweak.
     
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Does it sound any different?
     
  5. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately not


    Well the mod does improve the sounds slightly but it’s not completely re-worked like it should be if that’s what you mean


    Braking is now lovely too. Much more responsive
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  6. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

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    I still firmly believe that the *only* reason Arosa received an update was because Rivet had more paid content for the route and it's appeal would be greatly increased if it was released alongside a bunch of fixes. Apologies for sounding a bit cynical but given Rivet's track record where patches are concerned it is kind of difficult to interpret it any other way.
     
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  7. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    There has definitely been some tweaking behind the scenes. It isn’t just notch 1 and 2 that has changed but also notch 3 as it also used to accelerate at top speed too. Now it doesn’t. I mean the thing accelerated in notch 1 at 75mph up a 256 gradient on the Lon-Brighton route for goodness sake, It meant to control it at 75mph you had to continually come on and off the throttle which is not realistic. Would sound awful and in real life to control it at top speed they just hold it in notch 3, 4 5 etc.

    As mentioned the braking is also sharper too so much more close to real life ( I have the gps speed data to compare )

    It has now become a much more enjoyable unit to drive, especially with the sound mods by Bescot adding brake rub audio into the mix. Not perfect in any way and still nowhere near the quality of AP but at least I can enjoy driving it now. Before that top speed acceleration nonsense put me right off.

    Lets hope DTG take this on and rework it properly in the future because i get the feeling that this unit will be very popular indeed if they do.
     
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  8. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Let's just hope this new loco DLC from Rivet has something to do with WCL. Even if that allows a small patch to be thrown in to fix some of the basic issues such as the incorrect headlight/taillight configurations on AI trains (which is still an issue on IoW too).

    IF it involves a new timetable, please consider the following:
    -Make sure the player timetable is rounded to 30 second intervals (no untidy second-specific timings).
    -AI trains don't cause long hold ups at signals, or objectives complete before the signal ahead has cleared.
    -Stopping services to St Austell continue off-map to Plymouth instead of reversing at the siding beyond the platform.
    -Early morning and late evening services to St Ives and Falmouth (from Truro) originating and terminating at Penzance.
    -Intercity services have at least one brake coach in their formation (if continuing to use the NTP layers).

    A good timetable really makes a huge difference to the player experience - any improvement that allows the route to live up closer to its full potential will both allow the community to enjoy it more and give Rivet some much needed redemption for their past mistakes.
     
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  9. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I think the Falmouth trains are stabled in St Blazey rather than Penzance?

    But I totally agree that train from PZ to St Ives is a must. In the 1990's the train actually went back to PZ every other hour for a crew change.

    D
     
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  10. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Even if they were stabled at St Blazey in reality, it might still be worthwhile adding in a handful of empty stock runs from Penzance/Long Rock to Truro, which shouldn't seem too out of the ordinary for the benefit of more service variety.
     
  11. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I sent Jasper_Rivet a copy of a 1998ish timetable. It went into the black hole that is rivets developers.
     
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  12. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    This is what I sent. It's just St Ives to Penzance. From circa 1998/9

    You can see how many PZ to St Ives routes, plus how the line speed is wrong as the turnaround times are shorter even with request stops.
     

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  13. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    If there were, it wasn't in the DLC, but in the core. The WCL route (so also 150/2) DLC file hasn't been touched since 3 November 2021.
     
  14. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    My monies on more stock for the swiss route.
     
  15. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The latest roadmap says a new UK loco from Rivet Games, which could be anything given 'loco' seems to commonly reference both a locomotive or multiple unit in this game.
     
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  16. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Dave. Also Rivet Games have made this route look totally inaccurate and it has so many missing iconic landmarks and features. It is so poorly designed, that it is an insult to Penzance, St. Ives and the whole of West Cornwall. It is also an insult to all the TSW2 community and everyone who purchased it. Jasper at Rivet has shown he doesn’t care, by admitting that there are no improvements in the pipeline.

    I would feel much happier if Rivet changed the name from West Cornwall to West Country and described it as a fictional or fantasy route, as it barely resembles the places within their route. It looks more like a forest in places with too many randomly places trees and vegetation. The scenery around Penzance and St. Ives is so totally inaccurate, it is a joke and about time DTG stepped into redesign it all.

    Rivet’s work on Locomotives and Stations is acceptable, but in future they should stay clear of producing routes. West Cornwall Local is the worst route in TSW2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
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  17. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    First off speak for yourself… I definitely do not feel insulted by the route. In fact, I compared the route with a cab ride video and was pleasantly surprised on how they compared. Even more interesting, Rivet’s 150 kept paced with the RL 150 in the video. Yes, their is some artistic license with some of the lineside buildings, but also some that were pretty accurate. In several places the real life route was more overgrown than Rivet’s representation.

    I swear it is like a pack of dogs in this forum when it comes to Rivet, one person starts barking then the rest of the pack joins in. Personally, if one finds their products so bad… don’t buy them and move on.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't try to speak for others. I do not feel "insulted" by what others do as they never act on my behalf

    Broad sweeping claims such as "totally inaccurate" are also misleading. You're saying that absolutely nothing on the route looks anything like in real life? If not then your claim is "totally inaccurate"

    There's a post onging discussing whether the TSW version is better or worse than the TSC or even the trains version of St Ives. Some bits are better, some bits are worse but you would have to be fairly local to know the specifics of what is right and what is not, but this is true of every route. I can point out several glaring inconsistencies on the SEHS route because I live 100m from it. Doesn't mean I'm jumping up and down because what is in real life a black wrought iron bridge is in game a blue box girder one...
     
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  19. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    To me, as I know the route so well, it is a poor replication, as there are so many inaccuracies as well as important landmarks missing and they need addressing. I certainly won’t be buying any Rivet route in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This can be said for every route...
     
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  21. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but WCL is bottom of the pile by a long way. I have said what I feel and have moved on. Perhaps I was going over the top when saying totally inaccurate as some parts like Long Rock TMD, the railway traction maintenance depot in Penzance is a fair reflection as are the Stations, it is the the scenery I was referring to. I did contact Rivet when the route was announced to advise on various aspects of the route but it fell on deaf ears. It was a worthwhile venture if it was to be produced correctly. Unfortunately it wasn’t. I hope one day it will be enhanced. Rant over.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And if you think that you're not looking hard enough (or are biased)
     
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  23. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

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    It is a thread about the lesser side of WCL so I guess a little woofing is justifiable :cool:

    Also, I kind of feel that speaking out about why you're not liking something is far more constructive than saying nothing and simply moving on because by doing so, if nothing else it gives developers a greater insight as to how they can improve (within reason, of course) when going forward. Personally, I'd sooner have a bunch of 'moany' comments that generate a potential means to an end as opposed to an abject silence and a continued downward spiral in quality. Ok, so "flogging a dead horse" springs to mind with WCL but at least these comments still highlight what Rivet can and cannot get away with when approaching future projects.

    One other thing. DTG receive considerably more flak than Rivet and the outcome on that side of the fence has being a clear and obvious upturn in overall quality since the disastrous period of TSW (more commonly known as '2021') so it does show that there can be end product to constructive criticism...so yeah, if there's an outside chance Rivet will follow a similar trajectory then keep on woofing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  24. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Pinxtonpaws. Thank you for your constructive post and for your support. I have moaned enough now about WCL, mainly because I know the route between St. Ives and Penzance so well for nearly 70 years and truly hope either Rivet or DTG enhance it. I have made my points, listed the inaccuracies and supplied photographs so I hope one day Rivet’s developers will look into it. If it had looked right, I would have been full of praise for their efforts and hope one day, they will enhance it so it does look right.
     
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  25. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder what went on behind the scenes with this project. Pure speculation but I would not be surprised if it didn’t start out literally as Penzance to St Ives, i.e. on a par with their IOW route. Then someone flagged up that isn’t going to sell for full price so they were reluctantly dragged into making the extension to Truro. Finally we had the curious decision to extend further, to of all places St Austell rather the logical location of Par. Even so that pushed their route building resources into overdrive resulting in what we got, though if St Ives to Penzance was the original intent doesn’t explain the less than lifelike scenery or the fact Rivet can’t read the Sectional Appendix and applied a foot crossing speed restriction to the whole branch in the Up direction.
     
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  26. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    There is definitely a "story".

    I think Truro was always the destination as that was what was announced. They made great effort to show the video of the building of the station. There is the cross over track like they have put in St Austell for the return leg etc.

    My humblest opinion is the boards here and at Rivet lit up with "Just to Truro?" question over and over again. I know I suggested Falmouth as the ideal end point. Keeping it Westcountry local...with out venturing into bandit clay country- they breed them different in the clay dust. My guess is public pressure meant that they extended it to St Austell. By going to Falmouth there was a lot more station work to do, even if it was a single line effort.

    Then DTG realised that with just half a dozen 150/2's in the system it was completely empty. It would be fine shuttling up and down between Pz and Tru, but that extra 11 miles to St Austell is a vast area of space.

    That is why the layers appeared?

    I may be wrong but that's my thought.
    D
     
  27. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Taking of WCL, wasn’t it a last minute decision to set the route in this era, as opposed to modern, which was the original plan?

    I believe Rivet did not make sure they could obtain the license from GWR before actually starting to build the route, hence the strange era choice, as well as the mixed interior branding and features on the 150.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    For the umpteenth time- Armstrong Powerhouse might be the Infallible Godlike Supermen of train sim studios- but they do not do any work in Unreal Engine or TSW.
     
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  29. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    No ...the "original" era announced was something like the 1950's-70's? Before it was then changed to the 90's.

    There was never a suggestion of modern. The boards wanted modern, but there was never a hint of it.
     
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I thought that as just a mix up on the "code" that DTG puts on their routes and nobody actually knew when it was going to be set..?
     
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  31. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone actually ask for it to end at St Austell though? Lots of people were saying either Plymouth or Falmouth, not somewhere random like St Austell that adds literally nothing interesting to the route experience.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes say nothing about why the product is bad. Let's pretend everything is perfect and not offer any criticisms. That makes total sense....
     
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  33. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Or they changed it to better reflect community demand for a more modern route. Including a Class 150 might help it sell better. Though had they got the whole route right in the first place they likely would have sold it better through more positive reviews...
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe... I doubt it though as it's a niche product for a niche product. Only so many people want a rural branch line driving a 30 year old train for half an hour...
     
  35. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Coc k up or conspiracy ? :)
     
  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    no idea. I tend not to bother to try to read too much into the motives of others.
     
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Not really, just the general feeling expressed by a lot of players that longer = better and Rivet or DTG may have thought extending further down the line may increase people’s interest in buying the route if not really adding more interest to route, but they couldn’t go further due to cost.. I quite like the extra length but St Austell really doesn’t feel like an end point.
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think the only logical end point of the route would have been Plymouth. Personally adding the Falmouth branch and leaving Truro as the "end point" would have been preferable. It would have been a nice little network, the Falmouth branch is quite scenic with a couple of interesting viaducts.
     
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  39. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I totally agree leaving Truro as the end point and just having the 150/2 pottering around as "branch line" would have been in keeping with IoW and Rivets other small lines? Definitely keeping it local.

    Great hour and half scenario of bringing the 150 from St Ives to Penzance, then up to Truro to takeover the Falmouth line...one could dream.

    By going east, I would argue and did at the time the obvious end point without going all the way to England could have been Par? For the extra few miles it would have been its another "destination" station? With the points ability to run around the platforms for the return legs?

    Hey ho. Rivet have said its done, and they are not thinking of doing anything with this line. So we can all just grumble to ourselves :)

    D
     
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  40. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    I said there are no improvements at the moment. But we figured it would be better to deny anything, until we actually got something ready to ship. We heard your feedback and there has been a lot of discussion about it, that's for sure. And that's probably all I can say right now.

    Cheers!
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this is that DTG have tried that course and usually end up with a wall of silence followed by screams of derision.
    For me it would be better to have dev streams (similar to the Just Trains ones) which show what you're looking at or doing, even if you cannot give an estimate of when it will be on people's machines.
    Being silent gives the impression nothing's happening and ends up with people coming to their own conclusions
     
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  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Still no riveting replies…..
     
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  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And with all due respect to Jasper’s response, the question remains why the route and Class 150 were allowed to release in the current state. Also various respondents have mentioned sending detailed information in to Rivet to assist in getting it right or at least improved but met with silence.
     
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  44. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I think developers are in an impossible position on this. They’re going to get torn to shreds on forums whatever they do - that’s the nature of forums. All they can do is ignore the abuse, pick out the genuine constructive feedback amongst it, and use it to help make the product better. Saying there were no plans for any changes when actually there were, was probably unwise, but I can see why it was done. DTG’s high communication approach doesn’t protect them from a barrage of criticism either.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG hasn't had a high communication approach since Protagonist took a step back...
    For all their talk of what they WANT to do, there's been little on what is BEING done and specifically what the timeline is for getting it out to us until very recently.
    Had they said when RH was pushed out last year that their timeline was to keep fixes in testing for 10 months people would rightly be irate and wonder what the heck is going on with testing and fixes. Because of radio silence people are left to their own devices and get rightly irate and wonder what the heck is going on with testing and fixes.
    It's great that we have the senior devs and senior producers on stream, but until we have someone who can say, with authority, what's coming out this month / term / quarter / year we're still where we were before.

    In this case, if Rivet said "we messed up, we know we messed up and we can do better, we will spend 25% of our dev time for the next six months getting it up to where it should be, with the support of DTG's new third party implementation system and with feedback from the community we can all make a great project" it would be better than saying " ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..." which is what we've had.
    Fine, they would have had a fair amount of people saying "Well why put it out in the first place?", and that is of course a valid query which Rivet may CHOOSE to answer, but...

    there's one thing that's known in the railway industry which applies here. Part of the reason they slow trains to a crawl when lines are busy and signals are adverse is because psychologically it's better to be moving forward at a crawl than standing at a stop. That applies here too. If we're told (or left to surmise) that nothing is happening people get "annoyed" (insert swear word here). If they're shown SOMETHING is happening, and maybe even part of what that is, they're likely to be happier, even if not satisfied in total
     
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  46. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The developers chose an iconic area to do the train sim. Then chose to miss out- either because of draw distances etc- lots of the iconic landmarks from the iconic area?

    Things very close to the track were done well. The Hallenbeagle mine engine which we can go into. Brilliant. Hallenbeagle Mine - Cornish Mine Images - History in Black and White some nice pictures from a few years back.

    The stations are extremely well done. You cannot fault the developers and artists.

    To me what disappointed me most was the missing features that you can see from alongside the tracks.
    The industrial area of South Crofty mine- which up to 1997 was still a working site, is in the game a forest. South Crofty Mine: Home - Cornish Mine Images - History in Black and White This is literally alongside the line between Camborne and Redruth. A working mine. But all you can see is woods.

    To the otherside they made Carn Brea a forest when its a gorse hill. Again ignoring the castle and basset monument.

    I have driven most of the journeys on the WCL and enjoy the driving experience. Just not the world it inhibits.

    *I must stop grumbling and keep driving*

    D
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I've been doing some research and I've found out the reply we've all been waiting for from Rivet below

    upload_2022-6-17_11-55-58.gif
     
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  48. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    You only have to use AP 150/2 and 156 packs created 4, 5 years ago for 30 seconds to realise what the standard the community have come to expect. I agree with OldVern - why was this allowed to be released in such a state that it is at the moment. It is biblically far off AP standards. The physics and sounds need a MASSIVE re-work to make the £25 we have spent good value for money.
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This is a good point. Frankly I don't mind in the video game industry in general if something is delayed because it could mean that the product wasn't ready to release as intended so it is better to get a product in a good state rather than in a rushed/incomplete state. NASCAR 21 Ignition is a prime example of a product that should've been delayed. It had potential to be a good game but because executives wanted the game out quickly to earn initial profits, it released in a state that it shouldn't have which damaged the reputation of the company and now they supposedly won't have enough money by the end of the year since not many people are buying NASCAR 21

    I also agree that it is better to at least reassure players rather than radio silence. If a person complains why a bus is taking so long but then realizes that the bus runs to a schedule then they would probably still complain, but would be more understanding. If rivet were to addresses the feedback and reassure players of potential improvements, that is better than saying nothing. It's also better than to have an employee make use a personal account to tell players to get a refund but not offer any reassurances

    The problem is that Rivet haven't made an effort to address the problems of the route. They have ignored members of the community that wanted to help them make the route by providing reference material and they released it in a state that wasn't really good hence the mixed reception really. Begs the question why?
     
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  50. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I agree about the points when it comes to quality. But Jasper doesnt make the decisions if / when wcl goes in a upgrade phase. Rivet upgraded iow and arosa after months, but they did.

    Im still thinking the best way to get west cornwall an update, is similar to arosa with a gameplay or loco dlc (or a falmouth extension). The wcl fix is for everybody, and who ever wants more, can get a dlc for additional gameplay.

    In the end we know the physics and sound mix of the 150 needs a rework (im sure rivet does too)
    So here a few points, what the 150 would make a tsw worthy addon:

    - working guardpanel:
    Tsw advertises with gameplay aspects beside the actual driving experience. Pis and gimmicks like working guard panels became a Dtg standard, so no reason for making a shortcut here.

    - Bis & local start procedures:
    Yes dtg proofed in a impressive way of modeling the class 101 what can be called advanced.
    So similar to the 101, the class 150 has a local start procedure from outside. No reason to not include that. Rivet made the pictograms well, you can actually see the position of the "start/stop" button. Same for the battery isolating switch. (Its outside)

    - turning kardan shafts of the transmission:
    A good example dtgs cl.101 and TSGs g6, have modeld shaft parts. You can see them turning.
    Sorry Rivet, you choose to make a diesel Hydraulic MU, so if you cant keep up in technical terms, (or not want), please ask people who know the train, or 2nd option go for a EMU.

    I hate to say it, but people who spent 800 Euros for Train simulator dont like it if their favourite locos get released in a immersion braking state.
     
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