Do Real Trains Jump Off The Track For No Reason?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by hefy_jefy, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. hefy_jefy

    hefy_jefy New Member

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    I have tried the Sand Patch Grade Coal Yoder to Cumberland scenario three times now, and each time the train derails for no reason, each time at a different place but always on the downhill after the tunnel. I have tried slower and slower (< 25mph) but nothing seems to work, is this a bug? Or something wrong with my PC?
    Geoff
     
  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not unless there is something wrong with the track or rolling stock, or running at excessive speed over the limit.
     
  3. bsrdj

    bsrdj Member

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    on pc play sand patch alot. never had my train at speed limit or under derail
     
  4. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    What scenario or timetable run and which locomotive? I have run Sand Patch ever since it was released and never have had a derailment. Of course I run within speed limits and try and follow prototypical braking processes. I would guess improper application of the dynamics could cause the problem. You should stop put the throttle to neutral for a a short period then put the dynamics in the set-up position. Once they take hold, slowly increase the braking level. If you just fully apply dynamics - it will take a bit for them to build but then rapidly take hold - but my guess would be the rapid slowing of the locomotives and the slack of the consist could cause you to derail.
     
  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a similar issue some were experiencing on this route. This is a bug with the game because it doesn't happen in real life
     
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  6. hefy_jefy

    hefy_jefy New Member

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    I like this game, I think it looks great and mostly it behaves well. However there is something amiss with the dynamic braking routine. I completed the scenario by not using the dynamic brake at all, just applied the automatic brake, stopping occasionally and at times using power to keep the train moving. Hardly realistic since in real live I suspect the brakes would have melted...
     
  7. terry english

    terry english Active Member

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    This problem is happening on Spirit of Steam with the Stanier 8F freight trains. It's happened to me several times now and I believe it's down to unrealistic physics that's built into the game. In one scenario I brought the train gently to a stop from 7 mph using no more than 8% braking. The train stopped, "Object Completed" flashed up to end the scenario and then the 8F gently keeled over onto its side leaving all the wagons standing quietly on the rails.
    This has got to be incorrect physics, because with an unfitted train, which it was, the buffers of the wagons would absorb the braking and then push back as the buffer springs released the stored tension. The wagons would then shunt themselves back until the instanter couplings held them.
     
  8. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    There is something fundamentally wrong with the physics engine of this game that causes this to happen. It happens seemingly at random and on all routes, often on wet or slippy tracks with medium to high brake applications. Trains do not derail under these circumstances, and they certainly don’t flip end-over which I’ve seen happen numerous times.

    DTG have known about it for ages and haven’t patched it, so don’t expect a fix anytime soon.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I reported the db442 doing this under heavy braking on the first Dresden route. Granted it was full on emergency braking in the rain but this consistently derailed
     
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  10. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Weird, i've never had this issue except in Spirit of Steam, which is a known bug.

    What service was it exactly?

    What was your speed when you derailed?
     
  11. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    I never had a derailment either!
    Despite I have exceed the speed limit sometimes on different routes.
    But of course not at excessive speed difference.
    Specifically I have already made several timetables on SPG, and that never happened.
    It is really strange you are suffering this!.
     
  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    This has happened to me twice First is ECW using a 12 carriage class 377 at Eastbourne scenario planner upon start of the scenario I made it simply derails. 2nd time is that I resumed my 09:36 Riesa-Dresden Dresden to Riesa Freight the 2700 metric ton Monster train with 185.5 at the Weissig-Bohla fast line tracks. Upon the save game resume my 185.5 instantly jumped the tracks then derailed under light rain and clear conditions
     
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  13. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Speed doesn’t matter, it’s the application of brakes that causes it.

    For example, on L2B you can be doing line speed in the rain and brake slightly too late for a station in precipitous weather. You select brake 3 immediately and before you know it you’re derailed.

    I captured it on video and reported it (on L2B specifically) months ago and nothing has changed. It is a problem on all routes however.
     
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  14. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    For some reason i never have had that issue that i derail at speed or braking to hard
     
  15. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Well... despite I comment the above before... Yesterday I run a service with the AC4400, and when going downhill, I have to use the train brake - due to dynamic breaks were not enough! - but not full brake, and surprisingly the first locomotive suddenly separate from the train, and a message of derailment appeared!

    But what I had mentioned was true!
    Never had this issue before.
    I have made at least 10 services to Cumberland, with no problems.
    This route had an update some months ago.
    May be with it, things changed!

    I will try again during the week end.
     
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  16. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Please notice I have not being using this route since a long time.
    Mainly with the AC4400.
    I do it with the UP SD70 ACE, but no problem at all with it.
    Even in this case at least 3 months not driving on SPG.
     
  17. I've had this a couple of times on various routes. Mainly spirit of steam.

    I read that on older trains when applying the brakes it works like a domino effect from the front to the back, so if braking hard at speed the loco and front wagons will start to slow down, but the wagons towards the back that are yet to receive brake pressure will start to bunch up, then their combined weight will push against the slowing wagons and in some cases cause a derailment. Whereas newer trains tend to have a system in place to apply brake pressure evenly or from the back of the train, I'm sure it's called ep braking. So heavy braking should not cause derailments.
     
  18. LargeInjector

    LargeInjector Active Member

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    I've read that in the days of steam it was normal practice to lightly apply the brakes first to close up unfitted wagons before making a harder brake. You would also whistle for brakes from the guard in the brake van. This would tend to open up the wagons at the rear, but they would now be pulling on the brake van, not pushing on the front wagons.
     
  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Is the derailment preceded by a "clang" buffer sound?
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    US trains don't have buffers: the knuckle couplers are hydro-buffered so serve the same function, but there are no plates to "clang" together.
     
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  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Still, I am fairly confident that the new physics make a difference on the ICE and BR425 as well, so it could be a similar problem, but of course there would be no clang sound.
     
  22. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Hefy

    I did another run this weekend.
    Again the train derailed at the same place!
    Just after the Sand Patch tunnel, starting the descend, when I applied a small amount of train brake, due to dynamic ones, were not enough.

    But this time, I did something different.

    As I had experience the same before - as mentioned above - when I was inside the tunnel, I save the game!.
    So I tried again leaving the tunnel and starting the descend.
    This time, instead of applying train brake to help the dynamic ones, I did it with the locomotive ones instead!

    The run was completely successful!
    I arrived to Cumberland Terminal Yard without problems!.

    Then may be DTG changed the brakes of the train somehow, and now it applies more strongly, and this causes the uncouple of the locomotive and derail!

    One thing I noticed is, this route some miles before the yard, you had a speed limit of around 70!
    This does not happening this time! Maximum was 50, which has more sense!.
    So it seems they updated this route and the locomotive.

    Hopes this advise be useful!.l
     
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  23. hefy_jefy

    hefy_jefy New Member

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    Another related issue - why does the AC4400 bounce around all the time? Its a related bug I think, I saved a game yesterday just normally cruising at around 25mph in a 35 limit slightly uphill with power at 4. Tried to load the saved game and the AC4400 just bounced immediately off the track. This after 2 hrs grrrrr....
     

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