Sprirt Of Steam: Liverpool - Crewe Loco Additions

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Challenger3985, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Back at it again for new ideas, this time will be more focused with the latest news of Spirit of Steam.
    To make a recap from the Festival of Rail stream, this route will be the Liverpool - Crew route setting into 1958 (before electrification was installed) including two Ex-LMS Stanier built steam locos; The Class 6P "Jubilee" for express passenger runs, and the 8F for some heavy-duty freight.
    Of course, there's been some talk from the community about add-ons for this route, which I can agree to that, since just two locos just won't do much for long periods of time (even on a 24hr. Timetable). So after some minor research for what other locos operate on this line, here are what I would know to fit, not only for this period, but for other kinds of operations this route can run with.

    LMS Class 3F "Jinty" (Fowler)
    47324_East_Lancashire_Railway_(1).jpg
    Date: 1924-1931
    Units: 422 (415 in BR)
    BR Number Range: 47260-47681
    Wheel: 0-6-0T
    Duties: Mixed-Traffic/Shunter

    LMS Patriot Class (Fowler)
    rpb-collection2-16.jpg
    Date: 1930-1934
    Units: 52 (34 unrebuilt)
    BR Number Range: 45500-45551
    Wheel: 4-6-0
    Duties: Express Passenger/Mail/Parcel

    LMS Coronation/Dutchess (Stanier)
    Dsc_0050.jpg
    Date: 1937-1948
    Units: 38
    BR Number Range: 46220-46257
    Wheel: 4-6-2
    Duties: Express Passenger

    LMS Class 4P, 2-Cyl (Stanier)
    Salford_3_railway_station_geograph-2202696.jpg
    Date: 1935-1943
    Units: 206
    BR Number Range: 42425-42672
    Wheel: 2-6-4T
    Duties: Suburban Passenger

    LNWR Class G2 "Super D" (Beames)
    download.jpg
    Date: 1921-1922
    Units: 60
    BR Number Range: 49395-49454
    Wheel: 0-8-0
    Duties: Mixed-Freight

    (I'm leaving no descriptions on each of them because 1. I have no idea how this line actually operates back in the day, let alone how it would look on a timetable. And 2. You pretty much know some of them from TS1 anyways, so you know what they're capable are in each run.)

    So there you have it, some ideas for more steam locos on this line. I know there are many more used in that era, but one step at a time. And since this is a first route to have steam, I do hope this route with this era will be the right choice to run them on in the end. But, don't hesitate to have your own idea on this one, the more, the merrier. (And I know many of you are gonna say, 'why not include the Black 5?' The answer is: just because, and I'm leaving it with that.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I love this one, it looks adorable :D
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I have always had a soft spot for the Jinty, ever since getting the Triang-Hornby one as part of a train set in the 70's. Came complete with "Synth smoke" which basically filled the room with a probably toxic wispy vapour - even worse when I ran out of the special oil and put 3 in 1 down the pipe instead, amazed the thing didn't catch fire! Day 1 purchase for me.
     
  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If you want a slightly bigger Tank Engine that can fit here a Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2 Arthur Tank engine can work 1946 service entry.
    [​IMG]
    Another one is a 4MT Standard Belle 2-6-4 both are commuter/ shunting
    [​IMG]
    build dates 1951-1956
     
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  5. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, did check the Depots on this route with both of them, and it ain't gonna work (frequently). Seems the 4P Tank Engines were a lot more assigned to this part of the region than the others, even in the late 50s. But of course as an alternative for suburban/commuter passenger, if no one wants a tank engine other than the 3F, would be either the Compounds (4-4-0) or the 2Ps (4-4-0). Though I could be wrong on both of them for that service.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  6. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Any of the standard class locos built by BR (specifically the 2MT, 4MT and 9F).

    Standard 2MT.jpg Standard 4MT.jpg Standard 9F.jpg

    The 2MT covering stopping services, potentially with the addition of LMS non-corridor coaches, the 4MT working stopping services and light freight, and the 9F working primarily heavy freight but occasionally substituting in on express services.
     
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  7. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea of the LMS Patriot Class (Flower). It could also be used on parcel and mail train duties, as well as express passenger.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
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  8. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    Add the LMS Black Fives to the list.
     
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  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean 9F Murdoch as the heavy freight steam and is capable of Mix traffic duties like a DB BR143 Deutsche reichsbahn ddr Dark red paint version DR BR243 seen in Riesa-Dresden Tharandter Rampe Dresden Chemnitz and Ruhr-Sieg Nord.
     
  10. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, a mix with BR Standard Class would also be great for this route too (would be lovely to see an 9F in TSW one day)

    Well, since we don't know what type of Mk. I coaches would be included yet, but it would not be a bad idea to add in some parcel/mail services to the timetable (if it's the right type, that is).
     
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  11. Gwrfan

    Gwrfan New Member

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    (http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2013/06/crewe-north-1958-1962.html?m=1)
    The link i have just added above is very useful if you want to know what locomotives were used at crewe. In this link i found a few good locomotives to be added these are the lms 2P, 2mt, lms royal scot, lms 3f, br class 7 britania and an odd one br class 8 duke of glocherter (only one that existed). These locomotives would be great for the route espiceally if they include lms period coaches and maybe an secound class coach instead of tsos.
     
  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about this and it's possible we can get Jinty and Pug as a dlc
     
  13. oakleymoss#1362

    oakleymoss#1362 Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen in photos, Liverpool must of had a pilot engine although we are only getting the Jubilee and 8F which both never piloted at any station (that I know of). However, I did have a think and as piloting would more or less only happen during the timetable mode, the only reasonable engine that we already have in game is the BR Class 08 which was build between 1952 and 1962 again however the livery on all versions of the 08 are post 1950s and there for never work.. The class 09 has the correct livery but they didn't emerge out of the works until 1961..

    All in all.. I'm fully agree with your suggestion! would love the jinty
     
  14. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    True, but it is still a nice idea.
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    True enough; but then, the only difference between the two was the gearing. Ergo combine the Class 09 3D model with the Class 08 physics and they're good to Gronk.
     
  16. oakleymoss#1362

    oakleymoss#1362 Well-Known Member

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    the 09 also had a horn whilst the 08 had a whistle
     
  17. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Well-Known Member

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    I would say the 2-6-4t.
     
  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Some in the community will start making it into Thomas and friends Henry since he's a Black Five. while a Southern Region route have a Battle of Britain class steam locomotive and 4mt. Result is Rebecca and Belle.
     
  19. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Well-Known Member

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    And I would do that just for the memories.
     
  20. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Might as well add in some last additions to the roster before they are lost to time, even though some of them are preserved.
    LMS 5MT "CRAB" (Huges)
    The-crab.jpg
    Date: 1926-1932
    Units: 245
    BR Number Range: 42700-42944
    Wheel: 2-6-0
    Duties: Mix-Traffic

    LMS Rebuilt Royal Scot (Stanier)
    LMS_Royal_Scot_Class_6100_Locomotive_(33048818193).jpg
    Date: 1943-1955
    Units: 70
    BR Number Range: 46100-46170
    Wheel: 4-6-0
    Duties: Express Passenger/Mail/Parcel

    LMS Princess Royal (Stanier)
    6201_PRINCESS_ELIZABETH_Castleton_East_Junction.jpg
    Date: 1953 (2), 1955 (10)
    Units: 12
    BR Number Range: 46200-46212
    Wheel: 4-6-2
    Duties: Express Passenger

    As for why I'm not listing the Black 5 on here (late response, I know), there is at least one reason for that. Not only there were popular from a railfan perspective, but there were a whole lot of them (over 840 units) that Stanier built at the time, which would make a variety of other locos be seen pretty limited if DTG only did this loco for this route (and don't get me started on the varieties of each model either, too many to count). Which is why I'm hoping for a Jinty or such to be made for this route in the future, lots of good activities to be working on this route with different locos to play with for sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  21. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see 6201 Princess Elizabeth, and Royal Scot as well as the Crab
     
  22. isaac47593

    isaac47593 Well-Known Member

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    100% want a crab probably my favourite steam locos certainly LMS wise!
     
  23. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
     
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  24. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I was only saying those additional locomotives would be perfect add-ons for Spirit of Steam, when it releases.
     
  25. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Eh, no worries. You wanted to get this thread recognizable again after the news today, I get it. But, we'll have to see what lies ahead for this route afterwards once it releases.
     
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  26. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah true. Thanks.:)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
  27. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Love this one, my favorite LMS' engine class.
     
  28. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    4MT Tank engine version has a name Belle she can work inside the Yards. While her bigger cousin the 9F Murdoch Freight and Express.
     
  29. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Well-Known Member

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    Is the School class one?
     
  30. oakleymoss#1362

    oakleymoss#1362 Well-Known Member

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    They ran on the southern region.. never ran on the WCML or any of the lines branching off the WCML.
     
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  31. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks. Still relearning British steam.
     
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  32. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    I am loving Spirit of Steam: Liverpool Lime Street very much. It would be interesting to see a few of these locomotives as add-ons for the route, sometime in the future.:)
     
  33. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    If you want an even bigger locomotive I would like to see a LMS Beyer Garratt.
    upload_2022-6-26_19-4-6.png
    Date:1927 (3) 1930 (30)
    Units: 30
    Wheel: 2-6-0+0-6-2
    Duties:Freight and Banking
    The Garratt would be a good locomotive add on and the first articulated locomotive for Train Sim World 2 and they work sort of because they were hard on maintenance and during WW2 the LMS did not have have time to repair them making less reliable and the interesting thing some of the garratts had we're revolving coal bunkers which reduces coal dust in the cab and they were also heavy on coal and the LMS began retiring them between 1955-1958 and there was one last in April, 1958 and I think any locomotive that didn't do well in real life should be given a second chance in digital life.
     
  34. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can see a few problems with that loco for many reasons.

    1. Since the Liverpool - Crewe route (which is what is thread is suggesting onto) is set in 1958, a year before electrification. That would mean, by accuracy, that only one Garrat would only be numbered leaving a very limited amount of services to drive on, let alone for 'banking' or coal services (which, oddly enough, this line is smooth enough not to have one anyways).

    Which leads to,
    2. I've checked the Garrates allocations for the lines they run on in their lifetime, and none of them seems to be close servicing to or between Edge Hill or Crewe. (So unless some wants to correct me on this one, this is what I found)

    Pretty sure there's a number 3 to this, but these are the most problematic I see for this Garret to not happen for Liverpool - Crewe. Another UK steam route based on the Midland region, probably possible, just not imaging it being made for this line at all.
     
  35. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    Ok then how about the LMS 10000 and 10001 diesel locomotives after the LMS was the first railroad in the UK to have diesels.
    upload_2022-6-26_22-18-53.png
    They were built in 1947 for the LMS beginning the end of steam for Britain and they were both used for passenger and freight trains.
     
  36. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    I would rather see LPC be a Steam only kind of route, honestly (early Diesels can be an expansion thing if wanted). Plus, with only 2 units of this class serving long-distance express and some kind of freight on this line (if so in the late 1950s before being scrapped), yeah that's a shot in a dark to find one during service mode let alone driving one without seeing a duplicate with the same number passing by. You would only get like a few services with the two, and not sure many would want that for this route either with its small but accurate timetable.
     
  37. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    upload_2022-6-30_20-57-7.png
    LMS Stanier Class 5 (Black Five)
    Build: 1934-1951
    Wheel 4-6-0
    Units: 842
    Duties: Mixed Traffic
    The Black 5 would be a excellent steam locomotive on this route because they were widely used all over British Railways and were the last steam locomotives to operate in the UK until steam ended on British Railways in 1968 and they were numbered 44658-45499 for BR in 1948 and they had different colors like black, green, and red and they're 18 locomotives in preservation and they can used those locomotives for sound recordings.


    The Black five
     
  38. oakleymoss#1362

    oakleymoss#1362 Well-Known Member

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    However, they are nearly identical to the Jubilees.. I don't personally see why DTG should add the black 5 in game atm.. The sounds and looks of the Black 5 are basically identical to the Jubilees with the exception that the jubilees have wheel splashers and the Black 5 don't and the fact that all Jubilees were named when barely any black 5s got named during their time under both LMS and BR ownership.
     
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  39. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    This I can agree with. Since this is another reason why I didn't put Black 5 on the list. Both Jubilees and B5s may have operated from different services in their lifespan, but they are nearly identical by design.

    At this point, this thread already have enough loco suggestions on Liverpool-Crewe for DTG to consider now, even more so on Steam rather than Diesel. Whether there's gonna be one for this route or any new others in the future, who knows for sure. So it's best just to leave it at that, and move on. (I'm looking at you max#3831, this thread is finished! End of discussion)
     
  40. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    I just thought of this one locomotive but only one was built and maybe if DTG does another Spirit of Steam route on the LMS on different locations and this locomotives is the LMS Turbomotive
    upload_2022-7-1_23-41-6.png
    This locomotive used turbines instead of cylinders and it was built in 1935 and it had 4 rows of of blades but here's a cut

    upload_2022-7-1_23-44-43.png

    This locomotive remain in service until 1949 when it suffered a turbine failure and it later converted to a conventional locomotive in 1952 and a few months later it was double heading with the Liverpool and Manchester express and this was the locomotive that was involved in the Harrow and Wealdstone railway accident and the engine was taken to Crewe where it was deemed beyond economical repair and scrapped.
     
  41. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    Fine go ahead see if I care and besides steam are out dated machines that deserve to be cut up for scrap and that's a reason diesels replaced them in the first because steam engines at to heat up water for five to six hours and you had to boil them constantly and they're good to go.
    I'm sorry I just needed to vent I just wanted to come help with suggestions for future add for this route and I research a little bit of things but not a lot and you make it sound like I don't know I'm sorry.
     
  42. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    I meant to say was they another route set on the LMS in a different time period like the late 30s or late 40s so that way they can use the Turbomotive or Beyer Garratts on a different LMS route like Manchester or Haslands or even the Hope Valley Line and again I'm sorry I'm just a little bit angry about that response I was just trying to come up with suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  43. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Look, I'm gonna level with ya. When I first started this thread, I did research to make sure which locomotives were assigned to this route within the right time period, not to mention that 1958 was a year before electrification started construction too, so steam was the only option to fit the period. Now, I'm not saying your suggestions are bad, just have one tiny problem involved; Timetable.
    The reason why timetable mode on LPC is like this is because it's being accurate with the right locos (more or less so with Jubilee) with room for more to fill in the services that are appropriate, layered or subbed. So if adding in, say the Class D16/1, that's only 2 locos that can spawned in at least 1-2 services within a 24-hour schedule without duplicating the same identical number on one of them.
    Which is why the Jinty or the Duchess would have a better chance to fill in the gap is because of the quantity they got like the Jubilee and 8F (except for the black 5, people will always find a way to complain if the locos are the same no matter what). Many may want to see an LMS Garratt on a Midland region line, but it would all depends on how many services can you fit into the timetable with the right locos at the right time period. Otherwise, people will complain if it's not accurate enough.

    So hopefully, this will clear a few things up on why some you suggested on here won't work on this line. Some of my post may look harsh to you (especially the last one I deleted, I was so tired last night), but I was trying to make a point on why it won't work. Sometimes, these things do need to be taken into consideration, do they not? Not just for my sake, but for almost everyone in here or any other TSW community.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
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  44. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    I understand that trying to make something accurate I just thought those locomotives I mentioned would be good for future routes on the LMS set in different years like 1949 or 1938 and plus nobody has ever had a Garratt or turbine locomotive in a train simulator except maybe Trainz and I'm sorry for keeping you up late or something I just thought they look cool. I meant like different regions on the LMS.
     
  45. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    The night hours is more of a me problem than you, so no worries on that part. Plus, don't get me wrong, I do love Steam traction no matter the route, but I do want to see it be done right for TSW2 no matter the era.

    Like I said, they are not bad suggestions if you don't think about timetable mode (like the D16 as an example). But this thread was solely for the Liverpool-Crewe route when it was announced, and adding in other locos that doesn't belong to that particular route and year it sets in, or how many services can it run in a 24-hour schedule, it could lead to some confusions onto why is it on the route to begin with and makes it less accurate than what's supposed to be in the first place (WCL with NTP stocks layered in is a good example to this).

    Then again, it's not surprising on how many would want to see routes in different parts of the UK other than the South East (even I'm sick of the South East, no offense to those that wants more of it), not to mention the steam fleet LMS have surviving into the BR era at the time (both pre-grouping and one of the big four) which makes it hard to narrow down what goes where at times. So who knows if DTG with do another UK steam route, either in the Midlands or in another region, both time and money is what keeping development projects as it is right now. Patience is key.
     
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  46. max#3831

    max#3831 Member

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    I agree with you on that like it could be next year or 2 till they make another steam route and speaking of accurate time like some of that stations for example like some were torn down or boarded up because by this time passenger trains were in decline due to automobiles and air travel.
     
  47. Kim1087

    Kim1087 Well-Known Member

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    Sprit of steam should re-named Sprit of boring !!! because as the route stands with only two locos it is one big yawn fest :mad:

    Liverpool station had around 500 services a day and what we have in game is only 104, making this route almost as boring as Rapid Transits 2017 timetable :(
    Having put some hard work into bringing this route up to TSW3 standards last year i would have expected some DLC locos to follow.

    The 3F Jinty and the Crab Class would have been a common sight so would Black 5's and 4MT's :love:
     
  48. Migsithepigsi

    Migsithepigsi Active Member

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    I like everything you mentioned, well perhaps not the G2 but everything else I'd love to see
     

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