Trans Pennine Third Rail?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by dangerousdave, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. Does anybody know why there's 2 lines with 3rd rail at Manchester?
     
  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    I believe there were one or two suburban electric lines from Manchester Victoria way back then. Bury comes to mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  3. That's quite interesting. I remember hearing they started to roll out third rail In the North then scrapped it in favour of overhead wires. But I never knew it was in use.

    Thanks.
     
  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,928
    Likes Received:
    23,951
    Manchester to Bury prior to Metrolink was worked by Class 504 EMU's, which utilised a slightly different third rail system with side contact and energised at 1200v DC (I wouldn't want to brush against that!).

    British Rail Class 504 - Wikipedia

    If you search YouTube I think you will find the Railscene cab rides of the line have been uploaded and are worth a watch for the lovely traction motor and compressor sounds!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    Further ferreting reveals that those emus were of a unique " side shoe " design, not seen elsewhere.
    (Ah, sorry OV. Didn't see your post.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  6. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    361
    3rd rail wasn't especially uncommon in the North, and there is some still in use to date. The Mersey Railway was built with actually 4th rail, and today much of the Mersyside network is 3rd rail, and not forgetting the Liverpool overhead railway was also 3rd rail. Moving outside Merseyside the Bury line as mentioned above with its unique 1200V side contact system, and over in the North East much of Tyneside was electrified by the NER using 3rd rail. I think the final use of 3rd rail in the North was the Glasgow subway but I may have forgotten something.

    Until the 1950s probably more of the North was using 3rd rail than it was overheads (Excluding Tramways), only then with the expansion of the UKs electric railway network would overheads really come to dominate, while at the same time for one reason or another some of the older electric railways either we're closed, de-electrified or converted to Light rail operations (most of which happned in the 80s).
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,928
    Likes Received:
    23,951
    I do recall sometime in the mid 60’s my dad taking me from Felling to North Shields to watch a football match and it was definitely an electric unit on the North Tyneside loop. This was 50 odd years ago so I can’t remember whether it was an original LNER unit or one of the EPB’s. I know people are pining for the T&W Metro in TSW but I actually think the 60’s would be more fascinating, with MetCam DMUs on the lines to South Shields and Sunderland and a mix of EMU’s and DMU’s on North Tyneside plus the Quayside Loop still open.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,782
    Bury 504s went in 1991 iirc, non corridor units similar in appearance to the 304/305/308 family. As lively a ride too!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Interesting. I definitely wouldn't wanna brush against that! 750dc hurts enough, I know this from experience!!

    It looks like they had that covered incasing it in wood.

    I know there was a fourth rail system. Like in London that operated on fourth rail, adopted from the lu I believe.

    I like the side contact idea. Although it was probably a bit hit an miss as the train started to rock from side to side.

    The dlr is unique with the shoe contact with the underside of the rail.

    If anyone ever visits Brighton there's the volks electric railway (apparently the first uk) is well worth a visit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2022
  10. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    361
    The wood was for insulation yes... but... I knew someone whos father was a platelayer on the line and when very wet you could still get a shock through the wood which I believe he found the hard way! As for swaying side to side I have a feeling that was never actually found to be an issue and I think there was a spunrg loaded mechanism to ensure contact, certainly the line ran from 1916-1991 without issue, infact I seem to recall in its entire time running it only had a handful of days down and those were due to overrunning engineering works! It also had the unique honour of during the July 1982 rail strikes being the only line to run a full timetable!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    636
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. The other railway he mentions I've seen pictures it looked bonkers! I think there's still remains of it on the beach.
     
  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,607
    You mean 750v DC Bottom Contact Third Rail. There is one bottom contact Third Rail route in game the Harlem Line using the same Wilgus-Sprague underrunning Third rail
     
  14. Yea that one. I mean unique to London. Considering everything else is either overhead wires or 3rd/4th rail with shoe contact on the top of the rail.
     

Share This Page