Well, I said I would. Now, we've had a lot of East Anglian suggestions and a lot of those have been for the GEML. So for my suggestion, I've gone for some time between 1989. Yes, that might be rather oddly specific but it is my opinion that this is the period in which the line was arguably the most interesting. Now in terms of the route itself in an ideal world, I would like this route to be the same length as the TS Classic version travelling from London Liverpool Street to Ipswich with the Felixstowe Branch on the end but that would be over 84 miles so that's probably a bit long for TSW2 as things stand. So for my somewhat more feasible request, I will suggest Colchester Station as the endpoint at 51 miles from Liverpool Street. Perhaps with St Botolph's (renamed Colchester Town in 1991) as a potential extra length of line as it's only an extra mile and a half or thereabouts. There are several notable features on the line from Liverpool Street Station itself to the depots at Stratford, Ilford and Colchester. The line can offer everything from diesel and electric loco hauled expresses, suburban commuter services, parcels trains, container traffic and more besides. Network SouthEast and Intercity operated passenger services along this route. Intercity ran express services from London Liverpool Street to Norwich using the Class 86/2 and a set of Mark 2 coaches (I believe 2E or 2Fs predominately though others will know better than I) clad in Intercity Livery. The Class 47/4 was also being used on express services in 1989 in several different liveries with a number carrying a silver roof courtesy of Stratford Depot's inability to put down the paintbrush. In times of low availability for the Class 86/2 Intercity's Great Eastern division was known to hire locomotives from other areas of British Rail. These included Class 86/4s including on rare occasions from the Caledonian Sleeper fleet, as well as Class 37s from the Civil Engineers pool. Network SouthEast ran commuter services all the way to Ipswich though many services terminated earlier on the line or ran on to one of the branches. Network SouthEast operated a number of different Electric Multiple Units on the line. These included the Mark 1 coach-based Class 302, 307, 308 and 309 as well as the Mark 2 coach-based Class 312. These would have predominately carried the Network SouthEast livery though some units still carried the old BR Blue-Grey livery. The last two surviving Class 302 cars survive at Mangapps Railway Museum in Essex. The Colne Valley Railway, also in Essex, is home to the last remaining Class 308 and Class 312 cars as well as the last 307 in Passenger configuration. Network SouthEast did not only operate old slam-doors though, from 1980 GEML services, in particular, the Shenfield Shuttle which is now part of Elizabeth Line services where the last 315s still operate to this day. Brand new to the GEML were the Class 321/3s, brought in to replace the old slam-door stock, like the 315s these too are living out the end of their passenger-carrying service on the GEML. Freight-wise, the majority of services would be container traffic to and from Felixstowe, these operated a variety of different classes of locomotive. These include the Class 31, 37, 47 and 86/4 and /6. On top of this was parcels traffic, this was either loco-hauled using short rakes of Mark 1 coaches often using a 31 or 47 though 302s and 308s both had a small number of their fleet converted for parcels duties as well. So where does that all leave us for a TSW2 version of the 1989 GEML? Well, I've listed more than 10 different classes in that list and obviously, not all of those are feasible. Realistically only two or three are possible. So what would I pick? Firstly is the Class 86/2 with a Mark 2 coach set in Intercity livery. This one is an easy pick, Intercity services are an essential part of this route and although the /2s aren't the ideal choice for container traffic they'll do the job for now. If possible a /4 variant as well would be great, but I'm trying to keep this vaguely possible. For a second choice, I'd like to see something much more unique with a slam-door EMU, we haven't seen any slam-door EMUs in the game and AC slam-door units are particularly rare in train sims and preservation. My personal choice would be the Class 312 although a 309 would also be a great choice. If possible my third choice at launch would be the Class 315, the fact DTG has made the 313 and 314 already make the 315 a logical choice for the route, and perfect for the Shenfield Stopper services. As for add-ons, I have two suggestions: The first is the Class 321, these were brand new to the GEML at the time and have been a stalwart of the route ever since. With the 321s reaching their retirement on the GEML it would be a fitting tribute to them to see them immortalised as they were when they were fresh out of the factory. Secondly is a little bundle using either the 302 or 308. With a passenger variant and a parcels variant. These would flesh out the variety of passenger units and provide new gameplay opportunities with new parcels services. Finally, I shall mention the potential layers. The Class 08 is naturally an obvious choice, there's always room for a Gronk particularly on a route with freight and loco-hauled services. As for mainline operations the Class 31, 37 and 47 could all have a case made for them, despite possibly not being in the ideal configuration. The 31 and 47 could operate loco-hauled parcels services with the Mark 1 BGs while all three could be used on container traffic. The 47 could also be used on express services too for added variety. Right, I know it's been a long post but if you are interested or have any other information or suggestions to add on to a 1989 GEML route then feel free to drop them in! (Note: all photos are my own and do not represent the trains as they would have been in period)
I like it a lot! The 86s were something I didn't see often as I have always lived on the ECML but when I have seen them they really have a good presence and will be interesting and add variety to existing stock. Personally I would prefer the slam doors to be included with the route and the 321 and 315 to be sold in a bundle later on, of course though that is only my opinion.
How about the class 90 electric locomotive they were also designed with the electrification to Norwich in mind
To my knowledge the Class 90s didn’t so passenger services on the GEML until NXEA (or ONE at the time) took over from Anglia Railways and replaced all Class 86 + Mk2 sets
Oh yeah, I'd definitely pick all slam-doors for the base route too if I was going purely on what I wanted. But I figured with DTG having made the 313 and 314 already, and to make the Shenfield Shuttle section really feel alive a 315 just kind of makes sense. The 90s in passenger service were mainly WCML locomotives. It was only really when Virgin Trains withdrew those that they became common on passenger services on the GEML. There are some examples before then with Anglia Railways hiring some in from Freightliner and EWS but that was only three locos really. I believe it did happen in the BR era but would have been fairly unusual. Most Class 90 traffic seen on the GEML in 1989 would have been freight to and from Felixstowe. Considering the 86 was the main express locomotive and a very common sight on freight, it just makes more sense to me.
Thank you for the answer and from what I can see is this 321 315 Base EMU Class 86 Electric locomotive passenger freight class 90
It's also worth pointing out how a lot of the rolling stock I've mentioned can be modified for use on other routes. The Class 86 and 90 can both be used on passenger and freight services for routes all the way into privatisation, both the 86s and 90s were used by Virgin Trains on the WCML and both have had long careers on freight service, the 90s are still common to this day. The slam-door EMUs have a decent potential for modification for other routes. The Class 308 for example is from a family of Mark One-based units which are sometimes referred to as the British Rail 1959 EMU design. This includes the 304, 305 and 504: The 304s were used on the WCML in the North West and West Midlands. The 305s were used on the Lea Valley Lines which make up the Southern end of the West Anglia Main Line though in their later lives worked in the North West around Manchester and a handful even worked all the way up in Scotland towards the end of their working lives. The 308s also worked the WAML and the London, Tilbury and Southend Railway. In later life, they worked in the West Midlands and West Yorkshire out of Leeds The 504s were third rail variants which ran the Manchester Victoria to Bury lines from 1959 to 1991, one of these units still survives at the East Lancashire Railway under restoration (just saying, this would make a brilliant prototype for a route extension or merging with NTP, and it would be nice to see Vic with more traffic) Meanwhile, the Class 309s were also used in the North West even running services all the way from Manchester to London Euston. The Class 312s were also used on the LT&SR and were used around the West Midlands alongside its very similar predecessor the Class 310 which worked the WCML, in particular, the West Midlands for most of their career though served on the LT&SR in the latter stages of their service. Then there's the Class 321s which have three variants, the 321/3s I've already discussed but there are the 321/4s that worked the WCML and the 321/9s which worked out of Leeds. On top of these are the Class 322s, effectively the same train but built for the Stansted Express though later served in Scotland and alongside the 321/9s out of Leeds before returning to East Anglia. Then there are the 320s, three-car versions, some of which were modified from 321/4s which serve in Scotland. Plus there are the 317s, 318s, 319s and 325 Parcel Units which all fall under the Mark 3-based AC EMU category. Basically, the trains which can be seen on the GEML are not just one-trick ponies, they can be modified or form the basis for trains across England and Scotland from the 1950s to the present day and so hold an enormous amount of potential for all sorts of routes in TSW.
Love it. I love the GEML, I love slamdoor EMUs, I love the era as it's when I started commuting and also started working for BR in 1989. The Great Eastern fleet when I started for BR on 3rd July 1989 was; 302 x11 302/9 x3 305/1 x2 (not sure what 2 of West Anglia's units are doing under the NGEX sector code) 306 x1 (specials only) 307 x32 308 x4 309 x23 310 x8 312 x49 315 x43 321 x8 Boring eh? I should point out that allocations between Ilford's WA and GE fleets were somewhat fluid with WAs 305s,310s and 321s often being utilised on the GE. Interestingly all but 4 of the Wolverton-built Class 308s had migrated to the LTS by the summer of 1989 replacing unrefurbished 302s which often found themselves back in service on the GE/WA before withdrawal, some clinging on into 1990.
I'll have to make a note of that list, very interesting! I'd love to be able to see Ilford Depot and the likes when they were full of the old units (the image below shows 1981). The AM units are so rare in preservation, model railways and sims which is such a shame, they were such a big part of the railway and not just in East Anglia. Adding them to TSW would really offer a unique experience to explore and enjoy these trains like never before. I know it's easy to be carried away with express locomotives and claggy diesels but these old multiple units really were the bread and butter of the railways for much of the country. https://www.flickr.com/photos/33751709@N05/5307638116/
I worked at East Ham Depot in the early 90s when we had a fantastic collection of hand-me-down units from across Network South East. To get away from my constantly ringing phone I would often take my lunch and newspaper up into whatever unit was sat in the nearest stabling road. I wish I'd taken more photos and souvenirs but it seemed like they'd be around for years and I also assumed BR would save a few units for preservation and rail tours. I am putting together an online allocations database for all mainline locos and units from 1960 to 2020, I've done 60-63 & 75-89 so far, once I've bridged the gap I'll start looking at how I can put it on the web. It may be useful for scenario creators.
Great suggestion! You could also add in some 309’s as some were still in use on the GEML at the time. Were 90’s in use on freight duties at the time and 317’s making some ge visits?
Oh yeah, the 309s would be excellent, my ideal world pair of units would be the 309 and 312 for sure. I'm not sure how common the 90s would have been on freight in 1989, I think it was 1991 when half the 90s were specifically dedicated to freight. As for 317s they were mostly on the Great Northern and West Anglian, so they were running into Liverpool Street at the time, not sure about much actual Great Eastern running but it's possible it happened.
100% support the OP. If DTG plan on doing another “vintage modern” route then GEML as proposed fits the bill. Colchester or Ipswich ideal but would not be averse to a version that went from the Street to Southend Victoria.
I’ve heard good things about the Class 309 but I never got to see it as I was born into privatisation. But the Class 321 is one of my favourite BREL built units so I’d love to see it in game, especially in NSE colours and the iconic “Blue Blaze” seats
Class 309's were essentially the "AC" equivalent of the SR long distance Mark One based EMU's, CIG's, CEP's and REP's, but with the wrap round front end similar to the Class 123 Inter City DMU's. Travelled on one a couple of times, fast and comfortable. Always a shame there wasn't a build for the Euston semi fast services, which had to make do with the 310's, 75 MPH and 3 + 2 seating, all the way from Euston to Northampton then Birmingham.
Well then I reckon I will very much enjoy seeing them in TSW2, not to mention any electrification era GEML as Liverpool Street is my favourite London Terminus
Yeah, the 309s were the first 100mph EMUs if I recall correctly, intended for the ECML electrification which didn't happen until decades later. Fascinating units, I do definitely need to go see one of the preserved ones, the only bit of a 309 I've seen so far is a TSO at Carnforth.
The AM9s were always intended for the London to Clacton service but it was certainly hoped that it could operate express services elsewhere, on the WCML in particular. In the end BR started work on a Mk2 derived EMU and opted to continue with Loco Hauled services on the intercity services. It's a real shame that no other regions ordered some as the subsequent EMUs, 310 and 312 were far inferior and slower than the 309s.
