Ats Payware Price Increases

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 390001, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed Alan Thompson Simulations have increased prices of payware content by £2

    chat moss route now costs £26,99 for non subscribers and the class 185 is now £26,99 for non subscribers.

    not a big increase in all fairness
     
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  2. TundraFire

    TundraFire Member

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    Inflation and rising server costs
     
  3. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Wow really
     
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  4. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Why the attitude?
     
  5. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    No attitude don’t see why inflation is a problem for products already release for a long time.
    Server costs yes that makes sense
     
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  6. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    because of server costs most likely. Servers suck massive amounts of power, and we are in the middle of an energy crisis.
     
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  7. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Yup and tbh £2 extra is nothing really
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    All that said, I find it strange that they are increasing prices when most people already own them. You'd think the increase would apply to newer products, not older.

    ...wait. Are subscriptions going up, too?

    They could also just host their content on Steam instead. Of course, then there's the issue of not being able to post scenarios on the Steam Workshop, etc. But those not wanting to buy and deal with third-party content are then paying for content they wouldn't buy otherwise, and the cut they get also pays for the site.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
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  9. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Annual subscription is not increased that’s still £32,99
     
  10. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    If you already own it, then the price increase can't possibly apply to you. :)
    But doesn't everyone buy third party content for Train Simulator? I can't imagine there's anyone that doesn't. Why wouldn't you? One of the main advantages of TS over TSW is the third party content. If they move it to Steam, then they would have to increase prices anyway to accommodate Steam's cut that they will take. It would end up being more expensive most likely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  11. andy.malcolm

    andy.malcolm Active Member

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    Especially as Steam's cut is 30%.
     
  12. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    What attitude, he was stating what his views were.
    Only attitude here is yours. ATS is disgraceful, making money out of what in any other game would be free mods.
    Routes and scenarios, all made using other peoples content.
    The only genuine payware is the third party stuff they sell.
    I subscribed last December, first and last time, never again.
     
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  13. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    So you think "wow really" wasn't sarcasm?
    How so?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  14. TundraFire

    TundraFire Member

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    ATS offers some the highest quality routes in the UK. Their 185 is incredibly detailed and complex. To expect that to be free is absurd.
     
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  15. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    A free mod? Chat Moss should be a free mod? The class 185 should be a free mod? Sorry, but you're just being ridiculous.
     
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  16. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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    It's true ATS is mediocre but geez...
    Some of their paywares are nice to have, even though they require additional assets.
    I do have to complain about their subscription and paywalls.
     
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  17. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The point was, even if they lose 60% of the money, a $45 route price on Steam (Canadian prices) is still about what a person would pay on their site anyway in my country post-conversion, and they still get 40% of that $18), which is comparable to the subscriber price anyway. And that can instantly go back to server costs.

    Of course, they can't possibly sell the 185 for that much. They'd have to scale back the package and perhaps offer a reskin pack third-party. Especially since DTG would not be able to clear all the liveries.

    I'm just saying what they could do since they are complaining about costs. They are not utilizing potential revenue streams. That is all I am saying. ;)
     
  18. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    TBF the 185 was made by IMBlue and Alan Thompson it’s not a sole ATS product
     
  19. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    CAD$18 is £11. That's ridiculous. They'd have to sell it for more if they used Steam. People have to make a living you know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  20. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I thnk you mean Imbue. I don't think anyone was suggesting it was. It's just being referred to as a ATS product in the same way that AP products are just referred to as such, even though most are developed with others as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  21. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with that. Leeds Lines, Missing Link, Chat Moss, King's Cross to King's Lynn (and Cambridge to Peterborough), ... all killer routes. What exactly is mediocre about any of those?
     
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  22. TundraFire

    TundraFire Member

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    They're upset that they have to pay money for quality.
     
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  23. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Well... you do always see the same people in threads that complain about the price of stuff, so..... (shrug).
     
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  24. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    You forgot I was suggesting one livery, yes? ATS can still sell a livery pack for it.
     
  25. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    No one mentioned one livery. You were responding to 390001's post re: the price increase of Chat Moss and the 185. The 185 is not a reskin of an existing model. I'm not sure what you are referring to here.
     
  26. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely no problem paying for any product off of ATS I still think they're fairly priced considering the amount of work that goes into them, still can't bring myself to sub though, I understand the business model I get why certain things are hidden behind a sub wall to encourage/entice new subscribers/ongoing revenue. It's just not for me right now, I'll never say never though if a Heart of Wales line dropped or a West Wales line linking Swansea to everything west and it was subware I'd sub in a heartbeat, it's all about what suits each individual, no point getting pissy when people don't see things the same way as you do.
     
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  27. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I was not clear. A 185 in a livery that DTG does have access to and can back as a publisher can come to Steam as a base pack. ATS can keep a separate livery pack. This can work out for both parties.
     
  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I think the sub being value for money depends on what you need from the site. I subbed because I wanted Chat Moss, Missing Link, Kings Cross to King's Lynn and the 185. The savings due to subbing made it worth while. If I had no need for those items, then there's not really much reason to subscribe. Now I have those things I'll not be subscribing next year. You really need to be buying multiple things to make it worthwhile. The non-subscriber prices are comparable to DTG or AP though, so even if you do not sub, the quality of the routes is excellent, and the 185 is superb, and every bit as good as I would expect from AP. I have no issue with the price, and am happy to support developers who create content of this calibre.
     
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  29. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I don't think ATS should go anywhere near Steam. They will have no choice but to increase prices. Steam take a 30% cut. You think they'd be happy to absorb that? I know I wouldn't. I just don't see what the advantage for ATS would be. Anyone who is more than just a casual player will know about ATS already, so the only new market they would pick up would be n00bs or casuals, and I don't think something like the ATS 185 would be a good choice for the casual game player, just as AP stuff wouldn't be either. If there was an advantage to using Steam, I'm pretty sure they'd be using it already.
     
  30. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    This is where my main issue comes into it (the annual sub as opposed to a monthly or even quarterly option), so if something's broken or there was an update due to a new ToC or something became broken due to DTG changing something you'd then have to pay for a whole year just to download one update.
     
  31. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you need to subscribe to download an update. I can go to downloads in my account settings, and there are links to re-download them in there. I'm pretty sure those will download the latest versions.
     
  32. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Local bakery has put my favourite bread up by 50p, you'll be lucky to get a takeaway for two for less than £30, my utility bills have rocketed from £70 per month to £220 in just a year. My mate at TfL hasn't had a pay rise since 2010. Everyone is being throttled.

    I have no problem paying more for small businesses because they are hardest hit because unlike huge corporations, they can't afford a team of accountants and lawyers to work out how to avoid paying as much tax as possible.
     
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  33. TundraFire

    TundraFire Member

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    I'm 90% sure it doesn't work that way unfortunately. My sub hasn't expired yet but my understanding is you can no longer download subware from their website after your subscription has expired. Howver, if you kept the installer locally then you can use that for reinstalls.
     
  34. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Elsewhere here I've directly quoted Alan Thompson from a facebook post saying that you cannot download updates without a sub mate, sorry.

    Edit:
    Found it.. >> https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/wcml-missing-link.53330/page-2#post-477935
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  35. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    For subware routes, you have to pay all over again. For payware purchased at discount, it is regular download.
    I think the installer checks if you are a subscriber.

    Yes, you may have to pay again to reuse a two year old installer you already paid for. So keep a local backup handy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  36. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Did I stutter?
     
  37. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Surely if ATS put a few of their routes on steam (similar to AP's Wherry lines), opening the door to larger audience would increase sales and in theory cancel out any lost revenue through steam's cut? (thus not needing to increase the price). I for one would appreciate being able to play those routes with the convenience of buying through steam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
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  38. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. What happens when they can’t pay next time? Add another three pounds? How does that help?

    Find more sources of revenue. Take the cut if you must. Missing Link would be great for Steam. So would Cambridge.
     
  39. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I am no longer a subscriber and the download links are still there. To insist you remain a subscriber to re-install something you have already bought would be a bit much, don't you think?
     
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  40. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Some of their routes have quite a few dependencies though. Stuff like Peterborough to Cambridge should be fine as most requirements use DTG routes sold on steam (which similar to AP's wherry lines could be incorporated into the base package). Their OHLE pack may be troublesome - I don't see why ATS doesn't include this with the route?
     
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  41. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I bought Wherry Lines off of AP directly, that way I support AP 100%, I also bought most of my JT stuff from JT directly more so for quicker access to updates and patches but yeah to support them directly too.

    Steam is convenient yes but unfortunately DTG control when patches and updates are committed to Steam, DTG aren't the most efficient at sorting stuff out in case you hadn't noticed.
     
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  42. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty certain they've done the maths on this, and I can only assume they have drawn a different conclusion from you. You can buy them without subscribing, and I don't see what the big deal is about buying things off Steam. The ATS routes come with a good installer, and you just double click and it installs. I really don't see what people's hang ups are with 3rd party stuff.

    You're also forgetting that it wouldn't work on Steam due to the 3rd party requirements for the scenarios.
    Steam for ATS would be a bad idea for so many reasons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  43. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't work on Steam due to the requirements. The Scenarios wouldn't work either. Everything on Steam needs to be a stand alone download that can just work without needing other requirements. This would mean compromising the product, and breaking the scenarios. ATS using Steam is a terrible idea. What exactly is your objection to buying stuff direct from 3rd parties anyway? It's not exactly difficult.
     
  44. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Did you not bother clicking the link I posted earlier?
     
  45. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Missing Link is not bought conventionally. My understanding is you must resubscribe to use the installer again if changing computers. I do agree it is a bit much, but that is what others have reported.
     
  46. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I think a bigger threat to ATS is the decline in users as TSC ages and TSW improves. Looking at activity on this board and UKTS it's obvious that they are quietening down, while TSW is getting lots of activity.

    I don't know what the Steam usage stats are, but I expect TSC has declined over the last couple of years.
     
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  47. TundraFire

    TundraFire Member

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    You're wrong
    https://steamdb.info/graph/?compare=24010,1282590
    Yes, it doesn't include consoles and doesn't include Epic but the fact is TSW has done higher numbers on Steam ONCE, post-release day, when Spirit of Steam came out. The fact is TS Classic remains as popular as ever. Not sure where you are getting the notion that TSW is "improving" in any way. Yes, it looks good but in terms of simulation does it offer anything close to the Class 460. Compare the AC4400CW on Cane Creek to the one Searchlight Simulations offers.
     
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  48. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Yet all we ever hear when a new TSC route gets released is TSW players bitching "why isn't this on TSW", "when are we getting routes this length", "what happened to the editor"... "We were lied to" and so on and so on, TSW is a great looking casual sofa game, that's it really, that's all that I can see going for it, that and it's usually about 29 pence every other week, heck even I picked it up for less than 2 ltrs of fuel (ok bad example). Funny I always thought you were quite switched on Mr (surely rusty by now) Bladder Sir, seems I may have misjudged you.
     
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Side note: ATS, AP, and others don't have the tools for TSW. JT got their hands on them fairly recently, so we look forward to the first JT project in TSW. Does that mean, though, that JT will abandon TSC for TSW? Heck no. Hope Valley is still being done. And they know the bigger PC audience is there, and they can do longer route projects there, so they will keep developing for it. It just means they are good enough for DTG to ask them on board to develop for the newer game.

    This is also why you don't see "enhancement packs" on TSW. AP can't develop for it. And as a result, if their audio content will be on TSW, it's part of a deal where they get paid for the content that goes into the game. They don't get to dictate how it's used, necessarily, but if we ever see a 700 or 800 in TSW, it could have the same sounds as the EP for either. You never know.
     
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  50. andy.malcolm

    andy.malcolm Active Member

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