Hello, the last lady of my Woodhead in blue route is the Class 506. Well, the loco doesn't look complicated; but ...! - acceleration is absolutely poor ! What do I wrong ..? Is there a 'little' trick to accelerate the lady after first platform stop ? I noticed, that I hear a sound when I start the Class 506 for the journey ( passengers boarded at start platform; doors locked ); acceleration is fine ! This sound , I never have heard again ( 2nd, 3rd ... platform )...; and acceleration is absolutely poor ?! Why ..?
It's been a very long time since I played this one. I seem to remember having the same issue myself and that it was impossible to keep to timings I recall at least one of the scenarios was broken upon release, but it may have been since fixed. At the time there was lots of people suggesting how to drive this correctly, but I never had much success. From memory, you had to be very careful not to overload things as the power would cut out completely. I must just give this another try tonight!
Overload ?! I would be happy to reach 200-300 Amps; my Class 506 runs completely underpowered... ~ 30 Amps. (-> how could the lady accelerate on 30 Amps?!?) - the lady starts rather fine to accelerate; but when the Class 506 reaches ~25 mph, the loco cannot accelerate anymore. It takes 2-3 miles to reach 50+ mph. For a short stop passenger train; nonsense ! I use the power switch like in any other EMU. - Class 506: inch (shunting) -> S -> P -> W.F. I haven't found more options. Maybe there is a "little hidden" trick ?! P.S. Don't mismatch the overload with the Class 76-bX; completely different engine!
It's pretty much normal. The class 506 was hardly a fast unit. I can get it to around 50mph, then it starts to run out of power, but goes on to reach around 65mph or so. You have to remember it was created exclusively for the Manchester to Hadfield line, and was a stopping service train. It was not designed for high speed. Also, travelling up from Manchester to Hadfield is mainly uphill, and sometimes quite a steep gradient. Approaching Hyde Junction, it's 1:75, so I'm not sure how fast you want a 1st generation 750V DC EMU to be
Ok, Gentlemen! ... I did many test runs with the Woodhead in blue Class 506: scenario 'Hadfield to Manchester Piccadilly' 1. At Hadfield, all seems to be ok. - you can hear the bells ( doors open/close ) - acceleration of the engine is fine - but amps are extremely low ?! Why ? 2. At Glossop station the trouble starts! - you cannot hear the bells ?! Why ? ---> sometimes the bell sound will come back at the next station ? Why ? 3. When you change the cabin at Glossop station; the trouble really starts ! - Class 506 just accelerates very slow; why ?!? 4. Mr. E. Fisk was pointing in his introduction interview to the Class 419 MLV. - I downloaded the manual for that Class 419 MLV - I found a shortcut: CTRL+A ( broadly speaking: "speeds up acceleration" ) 5. Surprise, surprise! - press 'CTRL+A' and the Class 506 starts to accelerate with a better performance. - something was blocking the acceleration of the Class 506; press CTRL+A and you override that resistance ! We still talk about starting the Class 506 from holding position; therefore we use power notch 'inch (or shunting)'. 6. About 8mph we go into 'S' power notch. - Class 506 will accelerate. - and now the problem: sometimes the acceleration will slow down or even stop! ---> in that situation you can follow a procedure: position the power lever back to OFF and again to 'S' ------> after 1-2 sec. you will notice how the Class 506 starts to accelerate again! Why ? -----------> it seems , you have to push up the acceleration step by step; why ? This procedure sounds very strange; and I haven't found any evidence for that in the 419 MLV manual. About the Class 506 manual; we don't have to talk !!! 7. About 18 mph you start to use power notch 'P'. - again, Class 506 starts to accelerate, but acceleration will slow down and stop ! ---> power lever back to OFF and again to 'P' and the lady starts to accelerate again... 8. About 40mph you use 'W.F.' settings. It is possible to accelerate the Class 506 to over 50 mph. I think this procedure sounds a little bit 'strange' ?! But it does work. For an engine, which obviously shows up with a 'special' handling; we need a manual ! - otherwise it is just guesswork! Do we have to guess the ideas of the Class 506 designer team ? If I like to do a puzzle, I will buy one. The person, who is responsible for the Woddhead Electric in Blue manual; well, I would kick him out of his job ! - if that person cannot do the job, for what to pay... I think, the 'missing informations' in that manual are an insult for the clients! ____________________________________________________________________________________ P.S. I buy an aircraft; but without manual. No need to read the manual; you will find out, how the lady is to handle - if you survive long enough !
I'll try that one. Have you played a QuickDrive with the 506 and if yes does it happen there too? I don't know what the "Advanced Mode" (Ctrl+A) actually does, as it is not documented and I've yet to find a tool to uncompile the .out script to see what's happening. Edit: You're right, while I think you should forget about "Ctrl+A" - it's probably a leftover in the inputmapper for some advanced controls which were not implemented in the release version. All it does is move the handle back. This seems more of a bug to me than something undocumented, as long as you're in the front cab it's ok, but as soon as you change ends it lacks power, yes. Sometimes zeroing the throttle and powering up again - it works. Strange. Someone must have noticed this. I will try if it is a 64 bit issue and run in 32 bit. Hmmm... it seems the person doing the engine script ruined the good job the modellers did... The destination board light is also broken. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.
And now the best ! Scenario : Manchester to Hadfield The Woodhead electric in Blue Class 506 works perfectly fine ! - no problem at all ?!? 1. No need to push the acceleration 'step by step' up 2. CTRL + A still works ( power handle: 'inch' ) 3. 'S', 'P' and 'W.F.' works perfectly fine ! 4. Before you start using the trainbrake; always power handle in OFF position! What to think now ?! Scenario: Hadfield to Manchester just broken; most plausible explanation ! I don't think that they have tested the scenarios. 1. Timetables are nonsense ! - do we play a game, focusing on simulation, or do we play a little children action game ? 2. Manchester to Hadfield scenario; I got the order to drop off part of the train. - but I never did approach the 'uncouple' waypoint; therefore I did reach Hadfield station with full train. - scenario ended successfully; just not in time ! The lesson is clear.... 1. The Class 506 does work perfectly fine! 2. Scenarios (Hadfield to Manchester/ Manchester to Hadfield) are broken or not plausible. Best advice! Create your own scenarios for this wonderful old maid. Good Luck ! ... and enjoy this chapter of British Railway History .
Good point, that's why I was suggesting checking a QD - I am studying that scenario's script at the moment and want to strip it down - there's a lot of garbage not needed in there (speed and stop checks), which is probably responsible for the power issue. Btw I don't think Ctrl+A is needed, I've had it lock up my controls when used at a station stop. Timetables are not nonsense for passenger trains...
Yep. Seems the scenario is not the problem. Maybe it's just the DTOS. Then again, setting up the consist manually in Freeroam, I can change ends and it seems to work there, no crawling at 25 mph... I have no clue what's with this thing. Try pressing Ctrl+B, although that makes no real difference...
First it is not a Car or a DMU - it does not have gears When you drive the 506 you don't use Inch as that is just for slow speed shunting Go straight to S. After the set moves you can go straight to P or WF - You don't have to use S or P unless you wish to restrict the speed of the unit. The Amps on the unit reflect the amount of power the set is taking Leaving Hadfield the Amps are low as the train is going downhill and you don't need as much power. Drive the opposite way to Hadfield and the Amps would be higher as the set climbs the hill If you are driving from the Power Car - the one with the Pantograph you will hear electrical sounds as the unit notches up But you won't hear those sounds when you drive from the Trailer Coach at the other end. I did a test run on level track and the unit would reach 27mph in S, 40 in P and 54 in WF. But that will depend on the Gradient - I was on level test track - the Woodhead line is steeply graded. Check the Hand Brake is OFF The General rule is Lefty Loosey, Righty Tighty but Edward Fisk and co did it the wrong way round You turn the Handbrake fully Clockwise to release the brakes Peter
Hello Peter, thank you for the additional infos. I just finished another 'job' with the Class 506 / Manchester to Hadfield ... The lady did work perfectly fine ! Very enjoyable scenario ( maybe I will clone the scenario to fix the uncouple waypoint )... And great atmosphere ! But I prefer not to start the Class 506 like a FA-18; sitting on the catapult of a carrier. In the back of my train, I saw a lot of 'glowering' metalworkers. I am sure, they don't like to spill the tea over their trousers after a hard working day. And the door of my driver cabin doesn't look too solid! What do you think ?
Still the issue on the [506] 02. 2H78 Hadfield - Manchester Piccadilly scenario remains for some reason unknown. I've recreated this scenario in the editor, showing the same acceleration bug after Glossop. It seems not to happen on a six car consist. But DTG's Woodhead Line in Blue is one of their best DLC, teaming up with great professional creative artists here. (Have to admit that after playing the RSC Woodhead Line, it was a bit spooky driving through derelict Sheffield Victoria... nice to have those two epochs for TSC.)
It Would be - if it was not for all the Errors on the route. The Piccadilly track plan was done by somebody who did not check what the real layout is - so many errors. The Signal at Godley Jn on the Up line has its track marker on the wrong line so you cannot go in to the loop. You do a Quick drive to Sheffield and at Dunford Bridge you are routed in to the Up Goods - part way down the OHLE disappears then at Dunford West the Signals are all wrong and there are no Speed boards. Just look like a rush job.
There is no way the 506 will accelerate like a FA-18 - more like a Bi-Plane. The Cab side doors are correct - that is the way they built them in the 1940s I don't like the over dirty cab windscreen - they were not that dirty when I was a Guard on them Peter
Ignorance is bliss some say... of course I do not know the real route, and you definitely know it better than anybody else here.
Hello, I tried to fix the 'Hadfield via Glossop to Manchester' scenario. Therefore I tried different unit combinations; no chance! At Glossop; after changing the cabin; the train (now driving out of the DTOS cabin) will loose performance?!? - well I haven't tried to turn the complete train (180°); so that I can drive the train after Glossop out of the MOBS cabin ( that could be a solution ?) ... I still wonder, why the Class 506 use so low amps; is that really plausible ?! - well, why we don't reactivate such an economical train ???? (global warming, saving energy!); but I still think the low amps are not correct! It looks like converting a 'blueprint' into a game; without adjusting the settings for the game! I still think that there is a 'script mismatch'... But I have fixed the timetable for my Hadfield via Glossop to Manchester service. Well it is not finetuned till 'Broadbottom'; but it is a much more reasonable timetable. I focused on ' simulation '; and not on a children action game! 1. Don't drive like in a jet! 2. At the station, watch the train doors closing ( outside view for simulation ), whistle and release the brakes. 3. Start slow and gentle; no tea will spill over the trousers ! My working timetable: Hadfield 16:12:25 / 16:14:00 ( original time ) Glossop 16:21:00 Dinting 16:26:00 Broadbottom 16:31:30 ( it is possible to save a minute at this station! ) Hattersley 16:34:30 Godley 16:37:00 Newton 16:40:00 Guide Bridge 16:45:00 Fairfield 16:48:30 Gorton 16:51:30 Ashbury 16:55:00 Manchester Piccadilly 17:00:45 ( it is a long dead end track at Picccadilly station! ) The Class 506; with all the performance/ acceleration trouble, can keep on time with this timetable. - and the engineer has no reason to waste time ! Despite all the manual and mysterious 'driving' trouble, I think that the Woodhead Electric in Blue DLC is a top addon for TS classic. Especially the oldfashioned locomotives are top end products for TS classic; with charme and atmosphere, always you feel the 'thrill of driving' the old ladies. The whole DLC shows up wit atmosphere and 'British Railway History' ! ProRange! I hope you will enjoy the DLC, like I do ...
That sound fine when you are driving a Pullman train with a Steam loco - not a Commuter train This is a British train - there is no need to whistle (Sound the Horn we say over here) - not needed Imagine London Victoria with a train leaving from one of the 20 platforms every few mins and everyone blowing their horns The Horn is used to warn people near the track And what is this rubbish "Start slow and gentle; no tea will spill over the trousers" It is a commuter train - it does not have people supping tea from cups - it does not even have a toilet. I don't know where you are getting your "low amps" info? - there is not such gauge in the cab. On the Class 76s you get high amps Climbing Uphill You get Low amps going Downhill Such has Hadfield to Manchester - the entire route is downhill or level.
Take it easy!, Peter ... Ok, don't sound the horn; but put your head out of the driver cabin and check the closing doors... - and just at the moment, you see that doors are closed ( maybe you could trust the 'bell' sound in the driver cabin; but for me it doesn't work half the time! ), and no people are in danger, release the brakes and start the train ... I don't know how the British Railway procedure looks like; but I know very well, how the engineers take care on a German commuter train. - well, you are right; usually they don't use the horn to warn people at the platform; but they look out of the cabin and check the platform before starting the train ( or they can see the platform/ doors via monitor, mirrors ... ) - AND(!) , they start the train SLOW & GENTLE (!) ... ... they do that without onboard restaurant, just because nobody likes to be pressed into the seat approaching platforms or starting at a platform. When I read your comment, I get the feeling: "British Railway procedures don't take care of passengers!" I remember you saying: "There are kids on youtube,enjoying to crash trains!" And now you are upset, while I don't like this children gameplay: ...just speed the train to stay with an impossible timetable ?! I just say: Safety first! And that does mean: "Don't be in a rush as engineer; that just would endanger people." Strength lies in calmness. The 'low amps' info ? Well, just look at your F3 HUD, and it will give you that information. It is an incorrect info ? I don't think so! The F3 HUD amps info did work for the Class 76-bX ( F3 HUD info and the meter gauge in the cabin did show same settings ). Why the F3 HUD cannot work for the Class 506 ? The amps readout is extremely low; too low to be plausible . I still think that the designer team had real trouble to find 'working' settings for the Class 506 . Don't get me wrong; I like the oldfashioned Class 506... ... but the lady shows up with some 'mysterious' driving and handling problems in TS classic... Nothing, that could stop me to enjoy the old maid...
The Driver looks out of the window or at the mirror on the commuter train because HE is the person in charge of closing the doors and not moving the train until it is safe to do so - it is called DOO Operation in the UK [Driver Only Operation] and you find it mainly in the south east of the UK. The Hadfield line had Guards on the train and he both opened and closed the doors from the Brake van underneath the Pantograph Have you actually been on a German commuter train like a BR420 or a BR424? - I have been on most of the different types They don't hang around departing stations - watch the second train depart from about 0.57sec Or this one where he is also not hanging around
Hello Peter, very nice video (2nd video). The video just confirms my statement. 1. Monitors allow the driver to check the platform. 2. Loudspeaker announcements + optical signs support the driver and ensure safety. 3. Where are no devices, the driver looks out of the cabin (+ loudspeaker announcement). Did I say something different ? And this modern train shows up with an automatic system, providing slow & gentle acceleration and(!) braking. - passenger comfort. But(!) I am sure the supervisor will be really pleased how the train driver was handling with a bottle of water over the cabin desk ( electronic likes water!). But(!) "...No plaintiff, no judge...." And don't forget: "The video shows real life situation; we play a game in TS classic, missing many features ... therefore we have to set our own rules." Most of all: "Every TS classic user can make his own rules to take the best out of the gameplay." Have a nice day...
You told me the German Drivers take their departures Slowly as they don't wish to spill the cups of tea the workers are drinking The first video has the trains accelerating from the stations very quickly Which is my experience on travelling on these s-bahn services
That is true. I used to go on the Stuttgart S-Bahn semi-frequently on trips to see friends there, and the acceleration was smooth but nippy from what I remember.
To relive that experience, there's actually a very high quality BR 425 in the store, made by Maik Goltz. You can even adjust your seat height. I recommend this one: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1055335/Train_Simulator_DB_BR_425_EMU_AddOn/?
Wee bump... This problem still seems to be present. Driving from the DTOS acceleration is pretty much none existent regardless of power handle position. Good job its largely downhill from Dinting into Manchester, but I still managed to lose 7 or 8 minutes overall and was docked something like 9000 points. I did have career scoring off but it seems to keep trning itself on again. So either there is something very wrong with this unit or there's an undocumented step not covered in the manual.
If the unit would not accelerate then you would be going 10mph - which I presume you are not. The physics of this unit seem rather poor but it was built quite a few years after the last one ran under 1500vDC
Oh it definitely accelerates but I think a pushbike could outpace it. Out of interest I wonder how the original IHH model performed?
The original IHH model was nothing like a 506 - the body shape was wrong and the controls featured a tapchanger control.
It's really disappointing how the documentation for this route was sub-par. I know of a full manual for the 76 existing (on ATS I think) but the lack of one for the 08 and 506 (that I know of) makes me shy away from the route in general. Such a missed opportunity.
I got the Blue route as I know it from when I worked as a Guard over the line but there are so many errors with the track and signalling - it looks like they just updated the old route without checking to see if it was was correct. What could have been a good route was let down by a cheap job from DTG.
I just came across this thread. I have had the Woodhead Blue pack for a few years but have never tried the 506 until now using the scenario above. On the 25 MPH section before Glossop, I started slowing down at full power and when I tried to stop at Glossop the brakes wouldn't work and I crashed into the buffers at about 20 MPH. End of scenario.
Why would you be Slowing Down at FULL Power? You SHUT OFF and Coast then Apply the brakes. Do you know how the brakes work? As you move the Brake Handle you are in EP Braking - beyond about half way you go in to Auto Braking If you move the handle too far then you go into Auto Braking and you need to keep going to apply the brakes. The Brake work fine in EP mode - passing the Distant outside Glossop at 25mph I applied the EP brakes and the unit stopped short of the platform If you hit the buffer stops then its just poor driving.
Could it be the way you are driving the train? Trying a Free Roam from Glossop driving from the DTS I'm doing 25 over the first bridge and by the time I get to the Level Crossing outside Dinting I'm doing 44 mph. You don't have to go I(Inch)- Series - Parallel - Weak Field and wait for something to happen. Got a clear dry road? - put it in Weak Field straight away. That's that the real drivers did.The would only use the other notches when shunting or having to go for a speed restriction. Also Check the Brakes are OFF - it's not obvious looking at the Brake Gauge that although you have 70psi you might still have the EP brakes slightly on. This is how the Scenario Started and although the brakes look Off there is still a 25% Brake Pressure applied.
I shall rephrase my comment. I started slowing down at full power trying to get to 25 MPH but could only reach 23 MPH outside Glossop. I reduced the power back to off and applied the brakes which wouldn't work and ended up hitting the buffers at 20 MPH.
If you are going past the Distant Signal outside Glossop you don't want Power to be on at all. You can easily stop from that point - maybe you had the brakes set up wrong?
