[obsolete]- Page File Problem

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by 749006, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Windows update?
     
  2. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like something local to your set up. Can you remember what you most recently installed, that might have precipitated these errors?
     
  3. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    I brought from Steam in Mid March Class 150 DMU and Class 70.

    Game and PC has been working perfectly until the weekend.

    Latest Windows update came through on Friday just gone.

    I have:
    -Cleared Cache
    -Deleted Steam Workshop content (which was only a couple of non used items)
    -Deleted Railfan and Free Roam scenario to free up memory
    -Set the page file memory (I have 16mb of Ram)
    -Verified files through Steam

    I only have one other game installed on the PC which is DCS World (only the base game with no added DLC), which I use in VR along with throttles and controllers and still works perfectly.

    Memory says have I used 40%, so have 60% available.

    No other software is running other the Trains Simulator and Steam according to task manager.

    As my only other game works fine and PC looks in good health and has been more than capable of running TS (140 hours played to date), Im sure it must be something to do with Windows and TS itself.

    Any support or suggestions would be most welcome, as it makes the game drivable?
     
  4. ricktrains48

    ricktrains48 New Member

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    Not a page file issue on mine....

    My rig:
    HP
    AMD Ryzen 7 4800H (16 CPU edition)
    32 GB RAM
    1 TB HD (SSD)
    Windows 10 (Current latest update)

    Nothing so far has been able to fix, and I have over 200 hours prior.

    What is going on Dovetail???
     
  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Try starting the game without the VR Throttles and Controllers plugged in - it might work
     
  6. ricktrains48

    ricktrains48 New Member

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    UPDATE:
    It was a Page File Issue... I adjusted the setting (down from the OS having 10GB {holy mackerel} to 8GB) and now TS21 runs like it should.
    So it isn't just that the Page File system needs to be checked and on, but at what amount it is set at matters as well...

    And people wonder why I despise Windows OS......
     
  7. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    Well now Im having the issue, lol.
     
  8. class2ldn2801

    class2ldn2801 Active Member

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    So what are people putting in the box for 32gb of ram as minimum and maximum?
     
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Have set mine as 3072 min, 8192 max (I have 8Gb RAM) let's see what happens.

    Maybe worth considering that TS is the only one of quite a few installed hardware heavy games that have manifested this fault.

    Edit: Crashed on first attempt to lay a piece of track. The solution did not work. Looks like it's back to TSRE for Open Rails or TANE for Trainz. And yes I did reboot after making the changes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  10. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Having 16GB physical RAM, I set my pagefile to minimum 24GB and maximum 48GB. After a crash occurs I check the size and it never increases to 64GB. It sticks to the minimum, which tells me that this is simply enough for the OS (Windoze 7) in my setup. So the pagefile is surely not the only thing to look at when trying to avoid OOM errors. Critical is always the scenario editor, especially when handling large consists. Other than that I have very few crashes, and I have a lot of other tasks and stuff running next to TS. And after reading other messages, this is technically not really an out of memory crash anyway. More of a memory leak or writing to forbidden memory location.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2021
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  11. antoniobre189

    antoniobre189 New Member

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    If we are all or almost all of us with this problem that does not come from now, It comes from already some years ... There is something that DTG is not putting in an effort to solve, It is tedious to have to look for threads and threads and see what methods they can come up with. work, In performance, DTG should really take a look at this!, Lacks support for this issue
    upload_2022-1-5_14-32-23.png
     
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  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but it is a problem that the User has created.
    If the normal scenarios work on your computer and then you decide to add something from a third party or you change a scenario and it stops working you cannot expect DTG to fix it - they don't know what you did to break it.

    All third party add-ons have a disclaimer that if you install it at your own risk.
     
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  13. akisf1

    akisf1 New Member

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    hello guys...I am Akis from Greece..I have the same problem with this crash what can i do to stop this crashing my game..and this usually crashes when i entered to editor to make a train addin wagons locomotives etc... i dont know what i may do to stop this error..
     
  14. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the first post in this thread?
     
  15. akisf1

    akisf1 New Member

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    yes i have read...but previous it worked...but i run windows 11 and this way you told i cant find it..
    it may cause due to a big train i made or not? another solution
     
  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if the game runs on Windows 11 - other people have had problems when upgrading to Windows 11
     
  17. akisf1

    akisf1 New Member

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    I do what you say in the first thread but nothing happen...so whats going on and crash... is there any file that ends these OOM errors?
     
  18. robredhead

    robredhead New Member

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    Get occasional OOM with some scenario's but mainly with the JT routes will check pagefile, but system RAM is 128GB so it could well be Windows rather than TS.
     
  19. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    I check the logs after each crash (not too often). TS' pagefile usage never goes beyond 3 GB. It simply is not an out of memory error. The error message is just wrong.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2022
  20. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    Torf

    You are correct OOM errors in TS have very little to the SIZE of the Paging File.

    IMO this entire post should be deleted as it contains false and inaccurate information.

    If the paging file was actually causing the problem, it would be a WINDOWS error not a TS20xx error. Recorded in the Reliability History or the Event Log as a kernel error.

    The error would flash on the screen (usually without closing the app (TS20XX) you were running saying:
    Your computer has run out of available memory. TS will now exit. Usual cause - The Microsoft Windows paging file is corrupted.
    Or
    Seeing a PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA or KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR Blue Screen of Death (BSOD), both mean that the paging file is corrupt – not TS.

    But yes corrupt data in the PF could crash TS- but that has nothing to do with the PF size.
    What most simmers forget is that when the computer closes any data in the paging file is NOT deleted – IT IS RETAINED and if that data is corrupt then that may cause errors in TS especially if using the editor, when you next switch the computer on. You should always empty the PF when closing Windows – Google. The retained data may be to do with TS, Windows event logs, Antivirus and Personal settings in fact any data that windows has shifted to the PF. With the right software you could recover personal and private data from your PF. I have emptied my PF 512MB min and 4048MB max for several years and I have never seen a PF error in TS.

    So why does increasing the PF size as suggested here apparently help. Easy when you create a new PF you move it to a different “clean” area on your HDD/SSD and any corrupt data in the old PF will not affect TS. So, it is the MOVING of the PF that works NOT the size! One caveat with 4/8GB RAM installed having a PF of the correct size may help, but even here a max of 4048MB should be adequate. Remember the bigger the PF the more data (corrupt or otherwise) will be retained!

    The most common OOM error in TS is the 0xc0000005 which is an Application Error (TS) NOT a Windows Error. That means that this is an error generated in and/or by TS20XX and not the Windows OS.

    So what causes OOM’s in TS?
    Very Simply!
    When you run TS Windows loads the TS code into a Virtual Address Space (VAS) and SIMULTANEOUSLY that same code is loaded into the physical RAM. However, if the two addresses do NOT match (for many reasons) – you get an INVALID PAGE FAULT and TS crashes with the 0xc0000005 error. Memory mismatch would be a better descriptor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  21. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Exactly, and the causes for TS to crash can have multiple reasons. Sometimes bad assets, but I suspect there to be a bug in Railworks.exe, since the "OOM"s were not an issue in earlier versions of the game, and Railworks is the only program with this problem.

    I'm now checking if changing HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\@ClearPageFileAtShutdown=0x00000001 will help. (once)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2022
  22. Bioxyde

    Bioxyde New Member

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    this game have a big problem since 2014... More you buy new line and asset and more you have some memory crashs... it's maybe the time to enhance the engine and to pass on a real 64bit system with the possibility to use 32go at 64of RAM as Cities Skylines game.

    Improve the FPS also, because 30fps with last RTX... it's just bad no?
     
  23. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    Torf
    I started simmimg with TS in 2012 when it was just 32-bit and from day 1 - we saw OOM errors in those heady days you got "something bad has happened - SBHH". These progressed to them being named OOM's.
    However from 2018 when the 64-bit version was introduced these "OOMs" should have been largely eliminated. It looks like the conversion from 32-bit to 64-bit may not have been as good as it should! We don't even know if the Large Address Aware flag was set correctly in that the 64-bit version of TS can utilise 8+ TERABytes of VAS and not just the 4GB the 32-bit version uses. That might explain many of the crashes!
     
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  24. robredhead

    robredhead New Member

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    Think you have nailed it there the large Address Aware Flag if not set correctly as you say it does explain a great deal. It does also seem to occur on JT stuff that loads a great deal of assets and is asset heavy with resultant hits on FPS. I have had it running OK on Linux under Steam proton, it seems to be as stable as on Windows.
     
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  25. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Seems we're getting somewhere here. On thing I also noticed after playing a scenario on Mighty Seddin Freight is when I finish the scenario (Standby Duty) and get back to menu (music turned off of course), the ambient sound keeps looping in the background forever. This has often been the precursor to a crash when starting a new scenario.
     
  26. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If I have done a long run I will close down the game and reopen before my next one
    It clears what the game is holding in the Memory
     
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  27. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    Good idea, I do that sometimes, not for this reason but thinking back it seems that when I have had the problem it is because I didn't. Might be a coincidence but as they say in NCIS - no such thing as a coincidence - (except when there is).
     
  28. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    This is a workaround, but does not fix the problem. Sometimes I have single sessions that take hours, playing different scenarios, editing, even changing .bin files in the background without crashes.

    I recently found the game was likely to crash after playing Alaska scenarios. Then I looked into the assets and there's a folder Scenery\Wildlife that contains empty bin files (only XML header) for birds, cows, dogs and goats. I tried to rebuild them as the GeoPcDx and TgPcDx files are there. Gave me crashes. Now I completely deleted those bins from the .ap and will see what happens. Alaska was clearly not finished, sadly, because it's made by Jonathan Lewis (Milepost Simulations) and Michael Stephan (Great Northerner) who also did Stevens Pass, Canadian Mountain Passes and many other classic routes. There's clearly been a deadline preventing it to be finished, very apparent is the SD70MAC (broken lights, features in the script for flashing ditchlights not implemented in the engine blueprint) and the missing ARR passenger cars, eventually resulting in the light engine run scenarios.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2022
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  29. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    It seems deleting the empty assets did the trick. Will continue testing as I do have a lot of time at the moment.

    The thing is, TS has no such thing as error handling (except for missing content). It does not check the data it gets for validity, resulting in crashes. This reminds me of the Ariane 5 explosion. Check out the brilliant explanation how a small error can lead to terrible consequences.

    Worth checking out:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2022
  30. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Just an update. Removing the Scenery\Wildlife folder from trainsanddrivers\Alaska assets made the route stable and I did not encounter crashes any more after playing and editing on this route. As these assets are broken and therefore invisible, it is the best thing to remove them.

    LogMate reported them too when running Consist Editor (as consist editor has to browse through ALL assets to search for rolling stock, something that could have been prevented by introducing strict naming conventions. You can call your rolling stock folder RailVehicles, Rollmaterial, JohannGambolputty... whatever you want. If there were naming conventions Consist Editor would just have to look at RailVehicles folder which would save a lot of time).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2022
  31. teplowoz777

    teplowoz777 New Member

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    I have OOM only in editors, when moving stuff or working on multiple objects or trying to edit long consists

    During the game, i dont have any, or it happens so rarely i cant remember. The computer has 32Gb RAM and SSD with plenty of space, so memory is not the real issue, i guess it's a bug in the editor itself, which exist for ages . Also, despite of 64bit mode , my guess that editors still work in 32bit and that's why it does crash too often
     
  32. bzegmag

    bzegmag New Member

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    I have OOM repetately in some Tehachapi campaing scenarios and I´am not able to start this scenarios again. This is very curious because I normaly played this same scenarios only few days ago. Completely removal of WS scenarios and completely reinstal of TS doesn´t work. It is weirdly.
     
  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Try a Quick drive first on any Default route - just for a few mins.
    Then try the Tehachapi scenarios again
     
  34. rwaday

    rwaday Well-Known Member

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    I have done somewhat the same. Having 32GB of memory and a spare 250 GB SSD and space in the box, I installed and made this my default paging file location. Minimum 49152 and maximum 131032.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  35. rwaday

    rwaday Well-Known Member

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    Did you unsubscribe to as well as deleting? Be sure that if you have an NVIDIA video card you have added both the Railworks64.exe and Railworks.exe to your 3D settings. As a side note, corrupted files are notorious for setting OOM issues. Simply reinstalling TSC over an existing copy may not cure the issue. If you do not do a manual deletion, some of the existing files may not be overwritten and the problem persists. Clean installs are best.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  36. bzegmag

    bzegmag New Member

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    Hello rwaday,

    I unsubscribed all WS scenarios and than completely reinstaled game, but I still have this OOM bug in specific Tehachapi scenarios. My computer is strong enought and I have ATI grafic GPU.
     
  37. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    What processor and graphics card do you have?
     
  38. bzegmag

    bzegmag New Member

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    I have AMD Ryzen 5 5600X CPU and XFX GTS Radeon RX 580 8GB TripleX Edition GPU plus 57GB RAM. I have TS on a little bit old HDD (not on SSD)
     
  39. marceldiehr02

    marceldiehr02 Active Member

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    I get a memory crash after a few times saving in the editor, does anyone know what I can do about it?
     
  40. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Take your time and read through the forums - there is no single fix as everybody is having different setups and content.

    Start "logmate.exe" in the RailWorks folder and see what it outputs when TS crashes.

    TS is not a single game by a single developer - many devs from all around the world add their content to it, finding the one thing that causes a crash can be very time consuming unfortunately.

    And for helping you, details are needed. Always specify a situation we can reproduce - What route were you editing, which addons are active, what's your OS and hardware etc...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2022
  41. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    It also helps to clear cache after 2-3 sessions which although doesn't 100% eliminate the OOM crash. It does reduce the chance of it happening 65% of the time. Also setting up a page file helps too.
     
  42. eupiratul

    eupiratul New Member

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  43. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    The first picture tells us nothing only that you had what is commonly termed as an "OOM" or "Dump" if you search the forums for either of those keywords you'll see the process we mostly go through to get past these infuriatingly generic and often unexplained crashes.

    At this point I just wish DTG would replace the OOM message with something like this... Image65e47hebthbdr1.jpg
     
  44. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2022
  45. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    Plus look at "View Reliability History" or "Event Viewer"!
    Reef - they did report it a lot better back in the day with "SBHH" - Something bad has happened!
    erupiratul - needs to check how many Workshop items he has installed - a corrupt scenario can be the cause of a Cx5 OOM error.
     
  46. AYNIL

    AYNIL New Member

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    Today i started having same errors. No matter what, my game ctd when it tries to load new tile. I can start quick drive or whatever but as i said any new tile is auto ctd. Out of memory. i have 32 gig running at 3200 works fine in every other game. Something broke down yesterday no problems nothing new is instaled.
     
  47. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Another person who thinks that "because every other game works ok" and "I have so many gigs of memory" it should work.
    If you have the Default Game with no add-ons it does work
    But the user will add some third party item, a route, a repaint or something else and that can stop the game with a faulty file.

    Start by removing the last thing you installed - possibly from the Workshop - or a repaint - or a route.
    Anything you got thru Steam is OK - anything you get from elsewhere might have a fault.
     
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  48. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes like Peter says, i had installed several third-party offerings and it CTD, uninstalled the first one which was a scenario, solved the oom message.
     
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  49. popcorn#4528

    popcorn#4528 New Member

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    I've encountered this today after upgrading my PC. Couldn't even get into game.
    So far:
    - Cleared cache
    - Removed and reinstalled the game
    - Renamed the cache files SDBCache.bin, SDBCache.bin.MD5 and others
    - Checked GPU drivers (already on latest)
    - Removed/unsubscribed workshop content ALL
    - Increased Windows page file
    - Turned off W11 Game mode

    No luck, deffo not a memory issue - 64GB RAM, 24GB on the GPU.
    Out of luck, I deleted all the routes from Steam\steamapps\common\RailWorks\Content\Routes
    Now I can get into game - currently adding them back one by one to see which is causing the crash however I notice workshop scenarios are reappearing as I do this. Any ideas how to properly get rid of these? I've already gone to the Steam Workshop folder and deleted everything so unsure where these are being cached?

    ***UPDATE***
    Added routes back one by one, found this to be the cause 00000042-0000-0000-0000-000000002014 Which is the Riviera line, suspect it's a wprkshop scenario to be the cause - any ideas how I can cleanse this file of workshop content?
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2022
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  50. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Do not start Train Simulator at this time.

    Go in to the workshop via the Steam Client and check the Scenarios you have subscribed to.
    Make a note of any Riviera Line scenario hex numbers then Unsubscribe from them.
    Next go to \railworks\Content\Routes\00000042-0000-0000-0000-000000002014\Scenarios
    Find the scenarios corresponding to the hex numbers and delete them.
    If you had not unsubscribed from them first then Steam would automatically replace them
    You should now be able to start TSC without a problem from that Workshop Scenario

    Peter
     
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