Tsw3 - The Cat Is Out Of The Bag & The Unofficial Tsw3 Speculation Thread

This. DTG downright refuse to upgrade the lighting, regardless of hardware used. So many other games which run on older hardware have significantly better lighting than what TSW 2 offers.

Who’s betting that TSW 3 will offer the bare minimum upgrades?

For years we have been asking for DTG to upgrade the lighting, yet nothing. For a modern game, it’s honestly embarrassing how poor and inconsistent the lighting is.

 

The game is literally developed on pc and scaled back for consoles. I still don't understand why gen 8 should be dropped now. There doesn't seem to be any valid arguments. They can make certain things gen 9 and pc only like they have been doing now so why do you think gen 8 should be dropped?

Dovetail Games is holding this game back, not older hardware. There are other games that have better lighting and weather effects that run on gen 8 just fine. DTG just refuse to improve certain parts of the game which leads to modders having to basically hack into the game to make the improvements themselves and they run fine as well

 

If you believe that these improvements will come simply from not creating a gen8 version of the game, you have much more faith than I do.

The " abominations " of the Rush Hour launch were, in my opinion, more to do with questions of competence than the inclusion of a gen8 version, which simply meant offering less features and fewer layers to those players. Do you really think that Rush Hour would have gone more smoothly if DTG had already abandoned gen8?

 

Very well put, tallboy7648.

 

Don't forget that london commuter and riesa-dresden has performance issues on gen 9 consoles and memory crashes as well. I'm sure though that abandoning gen 8 would've still led to those same problems with rush hour on gen 9 although some would try to argue otherwise

 

But I have to say, stujoy, that your recent postings on this subject seem to amount to a campaign to persuade DTG to abandon gen8 players - unnecessarily, in my view.
Those with shiny, new cars have no more right to the road than the guy driving an old beater.

 

Other gen 8 games have better lighting etc. Yes that is true. But other games are also not as memory expensive as TSW is to run.

If the 8th gen hardware has so much more it can give than why are 9th gen consoles out. Obviously 8th gen were starting to hit the limits on what can be done with them or else Sony and Microsoft would not have even introduced 9th gen.

That whole 8th gen has so much more it can give is utter nonsense. And really is just 8th gen users unable to come to grips that 8th gen will be done in the next couple years.

If 8th gen could do so much more why is your draw distance so terrible? Why can't you have layers? Why are your settings at PC low?

Obviously you haven't seen or played the game on 9th gen because honestly the game plays so much better. Example on 9th gen you can actually see the fabric textures, scratches on the station signage etc.

It is literally like a brand new game and a much more enjoyable experience on gen 9.

But yes it would be silly to drop gen 8 completely. Thats why I think TSW3 is upgrades for 9th gen and PC only. Then the upcoming routes will be released for both TSW2 for 8th gen and TSW3 for 9th gen as they continue to support TSW2 for the next few years.

But you do know that gen 8 has been the longest serving consoles in the history of consoles?

 

I am saying what I think DTG are doing. I can make absolutely no difference to what they do. I believe they have already made the decision, so any attempt for me to persuade them to do it would require a time machine. You may have equal right to the road (emissions rules permitting) but if your old banger doesn’t have the power to pull your new bigger caravan up a modest hill you won’t get to you holiday destination. TSW3 is that new bigger, heavier caravan in this conversation.

 

Because DTG are either incapable or unwilling to spend the time to optimise the game enough on gen 8 to improve/implement those things. The game is so poorly optimised on all platforms to be honest.

If it's so easy to make the game look and perform better on gen 9, why doesn't it? The basic lighting structure, shading etc is the same across all platforms. DTG have so far made almost zero effort to make improvements on gen 9 (or PC for that matter) since creating a separate version for them last year.

 

And in TSW both are reliant on other people doing their jobs and doing them well enough, so basically one player doing the driving (constant interaction) and one player doing nothing for long periods until the first player does their job, and of course the second player isn't necessary because the first can just open the doors themselves.
Again, not my thing (yes, I'm prejudiced, I have never found a multiplayer game I actually like)

 

we are probably closer aligned than you may think. I am not in favour of Multiplayer just for Multiplayers sake, I also do not enjoy Multiplayer not since I used to play Napoleonic Total War(mod version) fighting big battles, lol. I just don't enjoy Multuplayer in other games now especially with all that abuse but if there is a purpose as in co-op some might enjoy it. Co-op would work better on some routes than others that is true. I was thinking like Bakerloo or the IOW, could be a laugh especially if the guard could talk to passengers

 

Bakerloo doesn't have guards in the period the route is set... Spose it did decades ago
Sigh... still means I wouldn't be interested in "co-op" play in TSW either. Too many issues or not enough to actually do other than what I do in game anyway (ie drive trains)

 

The game is not well optimized on all platforms to be honest. When I play this game, I get stuttering, terrible draw distances, odd shadows, terrible lighting. Not to mention dips in framerate on Dresden Chemeniz. Im on Series X by the way. I've even had a few crashes at Dresden HBF. If it's easy to make the game perform better, and look better then why has that not been the case? Sure we got a slightly higher framerate, more services in some routes, but in terms of performance, it can be a hit or miss. I shouldn't be experiencing crashes at Dresden HBF so no the game is not smooth sailing on gen 9

Also the reason why gen 8 has poor shadows and draw distance is because the game is poorly optimized. This game isn't well optimized on gen 9 consoles in certain areas as well. Should I blame old hardware for getting crashes on Dresden-Chemnitz?

 

Only because the game isn't optimised at all, so the hardware with old processor and small and old memory might start gasping when being asked to do things in a bloatware fashion...

 

Do you have access to DTG's internal financial numbers?

 

Microsoft (and Sony and Steam and Epic) keep continual track of who is playing a given game at any given time, data which is relayed to the publishers. So DTG knows very well how many 8th gen console owners are playing.

 

In fairness, the Series X is 3 years old. I guess it's processor is quite old now.

Looks like it's time to upgrade to a high end pc. If im having these performance problems then the series x surely must be holding the game back

 

I don't get it I have a series X as well since May 2021 and I have never had a crash once. 331 Driver rating and I own every piece of DLC except 38 Stock, WCL, RhB anniversary and the Z-bahn.

So why have I never had a craah on Dresden or BML

 

Who knows? I guess your lucky lol. Granted I don't own bml.

But to say gen 9 performs so well is quite misleading. I know someone who bought harlem and plays on series x and has been experiencing a few crashes on that route as well and there were some series x users reporting crashes on bml when that route came out as well hence why I said performance can be a hit or miss. Not everyone may have similar issues but that doesn't mean everything is smooth sailing for other players overall

 

Ma

No issues on Harlem at all for me. I wonder if its because the only game I have installed is TSW. Mind you with all the DLC I'm only up to 48% space used.

 

Who knows at this point

 

No I don’t. Those people who keep quoting the numbers of PS4s sold since it was first released against how many PS5s have been sold so far also don’t have DTG’s numbers on how many players actually play on both (and their xbox equivalents) and actually buy DLC, or their projections for how many will by the time TSW3 is half way through its development cycle. A lot of people seem to think that the figures will correlate exactly with the lifetime sales of the consoles. They won’t. I still have my PS4 and it never gets used for gaming ever since I got a PS5. It is only used for watching TV now.

I can however make a fairly good assumption that testing builds for two generations of console is twice as expensive as testing for one and I’m fairly sure gen 8 builds will need more tweaking and retests to get to a release state and that this year that has not been very successful. There have been issues that will have been expensive to rectify and it all adds up to continuing developing TSW for gen 8 consoles alongside gen 9 getting closer to being unprofitable, as their player numbers shift and gen 8 numbers continue to fall.

It’s the doubling up that is the major cost here and consoles overall may not have been as profitable because of it. To get rid of the doubling up there is only one option. Obviously I have no idea if I’m correct but then nobody saying DTG are raking it in with gen 8 since gen 9 versions came along have any idea if they are either. There has only been a year of this doubling of builds and I do sometimes wonder if it was planned all along for there to only be one year of that state of affairs. I’m not sure of that though. I also wonder how many gen 8 players have stuck around with the quality of their version of the game recently. I upgraded because of it before Rush Hour came along with more horrors. Everyone seems to be in agreement that when it is no longer profitable or no longer fits with DTG’s longer term plan then gen 8 will be dropped. I’m saying I believe that is much closer than some other people think.

Those are my thoughts on the matter and without access to numbers of any kind or the thoughts of DTG staff I could well be wrong.

And although I think that the decision to concentrate on PC and gen 9 consoles for future content will be the right one, I feel that I have to point out in every comment now that I’m not asking for it to happen but I have believed it is going to happen ever since the existence of a TSW3 was leaked.

 

Agreed and same here I'm not calling for them to stop suppoting 8th gen. It's just all the signs seem to be pointing that way.

And yes there are valid arguments for both sides as well, everyone does make good points for the most part when they seem to be replying to me, so I don't knock what they say. Just I want to see what their point of view is as well as everyone is different.

And just from history it has shown that none of the console makers have ever really cared about the previous gen once a new one gets released. It been happening since the 80's.

And if 8th gen were not up to their limit in hardware then why would they have released a 9th gen?

 

Money
$$$$$$

 

Nope, it's DTG's optimisation (or lack thereof) that's doing that for the most part. The only reason they get away with it on PC (for the most part) is memory management seems to be a bit better (or less strict) than on consoles so you don't get the OOM messages as often, though to be fair I've had a fair few on BML

 

I'm pretty sure selling hardware is one of the least profitable parts of the console industry, they make all their money from online sales and subscriptions rather than selling the hardware itself

 

I play TSW3 on the PC but to put things in perspective my wife has wanted a PS5 for ages. We have wait list requests in on Amazon and John Lewis and still, erm, waiting…

 

Would possibly be in DTGs interest to put some info out soon even if it is a watch this space. The amount of chatter about tsw3 and potential gen8 support or not may hit potential dlc purchases as people hold off. We also in the UK are entering a severe cost of living increase so if I was DTG the time is ripe to make a decision.

 

Interesting to me is that the roadmap stream for this month has been pushed back, probably get the usual so and so was ill. They managed on the 8-up didn't they?
Just wondering if they're deliberating what to do now their heads have recovered after smacking it when JD revealed it lol!
Just seems curious timing to me

 

While looking at the discussion if or if not gen 8 might be dropped, I reminded myself that there is still content in the works for TSW2: the TSG dlcs.

That gave me the idea, what if they support two games...? Imagine TSW2 for gen 8 and TSW3 for gen9. Third party can decide if they want to release on both or only one gen, DTG might only make content for gen9, while maintaining TSW2 and adding features for TSW3. That would make everyone happy. Gen8 get their game and dlc, gen9 and pc theirs, nothing is holding anyone back.

It would be like GTA Online back when PS4 came out. They supported them both for a while until the support for GTA online on gen 8 stopped and called it a day. Maybe they will do the same, with the difference that TSW2 can still get dlc if third party / DTG are willing to.

 

I somehow doubt they would support TSW2 alongside TSW3 for very long. Two lots of fixes to produce for faulty content, bugs or the core game. At best it would be temporary in the same way N3V apply their life cycle policy to former version of Trainz - you can carry on using them but don't expect support and no Download Station access without a paid subscription. You can certainly guarantee any new content for the game would be TSW3 only and that may go for stuff that is already on the development roadmap.

 

Sorry to say this but since TSW1 and you all are still hoping! I applaud you all for hoping. Lets hope the preservation team have more of an input from the get go

 

What the hell is gen 8 and gen 9. I do all my gaming on the pc. But i was looking at a xbox x the other day on amazon. At £400+ it would be a lot cheaper than upgrading my mobo, psu and sys mem. I wouldn't play train games on it though, only FPS games.

 

Gen 8 is Xbox one/s/x and PlayStation 4/slim/pro. Gen 9 is Xbox series x/s and PlayStation 5

 

Think Gen 8 is the PS4, Gen 9 is the PS5 which is still hard to get hold of.

But like you Mike I do my gaming on the PC apart from a couple of little games on the iPad. We don't even have a games console connected to the TV.

 

so uh....something pretty insane just happened on steam DB

this is A LOT of DLC in the game idk how much, 332 lines of it. this is huge!
in this state called mp_test, this time, this could be either 2 things, this has happened to DLCs before, but never this many at once. could be something to do with TSW3
2nd option is that its a fix for the PS5 DLC issue, it has also been confirmed by Lukas that mp does not stand for multiplayer

 

Matt Peddlesden probably

 

It's just the Superpatch that fixes all outstanding bugs.

Or not.

 

So they are testing multiplayer now.

 

Confirmed not MP related. Looks likley to be the DLC manager.

 

That’s encouraging. The DLC manager is of more use than multiplayer, if that’s what it is in relation to. I’m expecting multiplayer will come eventually, not that I would ever use it.

 

Thanks buddy, much appreciated.

 

I have an old Xbox but i think it was only connected to the tv for a week, years ago. Covered in dust in a cupboard since, Vern. I wouldn't buy a Playstation, as i have looked at the games and they mostly seem to be fantasy rubbish.
This old pc i7-4790K @ 4GHZ, 32GB DDR3 mem, GTX 1070 Gaming 8GB. Holds it's own most of the time, but is starting to show it's age. An Xbox x might be a cheaper alternative, to upgrading the pc.

 

Seriously considered buying one last year for the money saving reason, but ended up buying a new PC instead, since I use it for many things as well as gaming.

 

Only time I really used a console was the PS1 and PS2 for the Japanese Densha de Go games. As they were imported games and region protected had to rip the front off to put a gadget on that allowed you to play the games - even though legitimately purchased. Never did understand why Sony were so parochial and protective.

 

Well you can't sell game subscriptions (game pass & xbox live gold) if people don't have consoles. I am aware that you can get these on pc though

 

I have both consoles and enjoy Battlefield, rally titles and f1 games. I have to say PS5 has way better support for Fanatec wheels. Xbox has better back compat and gamepass, though I do prefer the PS dualsense controller, it just feels good in the hands. Xbox has just as much fantasy « rubbish » (as Mike puts it) as PS, no difference there.

 

I got up early and snagged a PS5, got it for Gran Turismo although I enjoy Cyberpunk and AC too. No chance of re-buying everything on TSW though, am too far in on PC even though the console might play it smoother.

 

I was thinking of the 1938 stock. I'm not saying it will be everyone's 'cup of tea' but it would be a change of going from A to B and seeing just empty stations no?

Think much the same. They only have one roadmap a month and still lack the courage to inform us what is going on. I wonder how many people have stopped buying DLC for TSW2 or the game itself as they are waiting to see what happens with TSW3?

I just upgraded my pc, cost me the best part of a grand although it should last just as long as the new consoles if not longer.

i9-12900k 3.20ghz, 64 GB, RTX 3060