Yes, a hefty additional outlay for getting realism! Us early adopters are fortunate indeed. But I'll hazard a guess and say that £250 wouldn't get you very far if your hobby was golf or scuba diving.
Maybe I misunderstood, sorry, you are correct in your observation regarding tape being on the tap charger in the 87 locos, they are all a light-ish grey, EXCEPT, the IC swallow model which has red tape, it looks quite smart, actually. I didn't check every version as there are over 20 liveries with 3 types of weathering for each version plus a dead loco for each weathered version, so, an awful lot of space taken up in the folder, which is under AP, I thought it might be under Waggonz, but, there you go. I think there are 2 different horns, both a bit squeaky, but, the liveries are very smart and it fills a void on our WCML routes from London Euston up to Liverpool and then right up into Scotland, so, lots of areas to play on. This is the cab interior. Cheerz. Steve.
Those aren't my hobbies, so not really a valid comparison. If you want to pay that for your hobby, that's fine, but not every body can, or wants to pay £250 to use all the scenarios. I think AP could and should have included more wallet friendly scenarios.
I think that the whole scenario creation thing is very elitist! I've spent a fair few hundred now on TSC & I'm still not close to being able to run the majority of scenarios! I can run some with errors or omissions but I don't think there is one I can run fully! I hate to think what additional cost I would incur to be able to run the latest 87 AP scenarios fully! I might add it up for a laugh!
I`ve just worked out I need an additional £370 over what I already have to run the scenarios correctly. My wife would kill me when she found out the reason our kids have not seen any food for 2 - 3 weeks!
For me the list of requirements is unbelievable since I don't own that much AP stuff. Here is the price for all the requirements for me (excluding things I already own). It is an unbelievable 1249.21 Australian Dollars!!! That is an absolutely crazy amount of money!!! I love Armstrong Powerhouse products for the few DLC that I do own but this is unbelievable, it should not be this much. For those curious, here is what I do own from the Requirements List: Armstrong Powerhouse Class 90/Mk3 DVT Pack Armstrong Powerhouse Class 313 Electric Multiple Unit Pack Dovetail Games European Loco Asset Pack Dovetail Games EWS Class 66 v2.0 Armstrong Powerhouse Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack
Promotional video for anyone who has not seen it yet. It does look and sound fantastic!!! you can tell they have put ALOT of work into the 87 itself and has been a much needed train for the WCML routes. Be nice to have something of this era to drive rather than pendolinos all the time
It really is quite scary how quickly it can all add up. I guess there is trying to find that fine balance of pleasing everyone but it seems to go the oposite way sadly. Imagine if you are a new user to the hobby and when you sit and add the costs up your going to be put off. Perhaps it would be an option to add a "new user friendly" type of scenario and the current versions to please a larger audiance. At the end of the day it is the new people coming into the hobby that are helping it grow to trying to cater for them as well would benefit the community greatly. Yes i get AP are a buisness and need to make money that is understandable. But new users are potential customers in the long run so keeping them happy would benefit the long run.
AP DLC's are brilliant & I do own a fair chunk of stuff by them, they do have great customer support to should things not work quite right. It would be nice to see some scenarios with DLC you are likely to own not some obscure bogie pack that I only found out existed yesterday when checking out the requirements I do find it strange that a requirement they have included is the now discontinued/superseded 390, why not just use the later 390? (Clearly I'm missing some realism aspect this brings). I love their 86 & I'll be getting the 87 at some point I'm sure.
Correct me if i am wrong but one of the routes the scenarios are for is the WCMLS did that not come with a 390 so i wonder why they did not use that one ??
The DTG 390 is sold separately but it is quite an old DLC and comes with fictional liveries. (LNER, LMS and Intercity) and it is quite old now and the newer, now discontinued, Virgin Class 390, comes in the modern Virgin Trains Class 390 livery and is much more modern looking and sounds better so this might be why they used the discontinued one. This is the current Class 390 on the store: https://store.steampowered.com/app/208343/Train_Simulator_Class_390_EMU_AddOn/ This is the discontinued one that AP wants you to use: https://steamdb.info/app/704283/
But did the WCMLS route not come with a class 390 as part of the route ?? If so it’s strange that s route the included scenarios use has a 399 that they didn’t use and used a separate one.
Makes me glad I have little interest in UK modern traction later than the blue diesel era and none in the electrics.
I always see the included AP scenarios as a bonus. After buying AP products for years I have some scenarios I can use out of the box, for the other ones I use TS-Tools or just don't use them at all. At least AP does include some scenarios at all, compared to a famous German 3rd party which does not only not include any scenarios, but also charge for every livery without any discount (yes, I'm looking at you, vR - although the latest 111 and 218 are a famous exception). Interesting that no-one complains constantly about vR for not making their AddOns playable out of the box (except for QD).
I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about WCML North and I completely forgot about WCML South. But my guess is that AP did not want to use a 390 in Avanti West Coast livery and wanted to use the Virgin Trains version.
Have been eagerly awaiting the release of the 87, just as much for the scenarios as much as anything else, but have to agree the list and cost of requirements is quite staggering. So glad I made the decision at Christmas (while isolating with covid) to sit down and set up Quick Drive with RWE2 for all the routes on the WCML. It has certainly saved me a small fortune with the scenario requirements for the class 87!
It is only £249 worth of requirements assuming you have not purchased anything apart from the base game. I don't see many people buying an AC Electric without buying an Electric Route. And the requirements only apply if you wish to play the included scenarios If you don't then there is No extra cost.
For people who don't own the discontinued DTG Pendolino: https://alanthomsonsim.com/downloads/bh-class-390-reskin-pack-wcml-south-version/ The DTG Virgin Pendo was riddled with bugs so you're not missing out much if you own WCML South.
How do you work that out? You have already told us the price to run the scenarios but now it is double that?
I remember seeing E3059 (an AL3, I think) + 71000 (the Duke) + GT3 + a couple of Mk2 coaches behind an EE type 4 (class 40 to you chaps) at Tamworth Low Level down platform waiting for the road. This was well before the wires were South of Crewe I think it was 1961 and the entourage of dragged was en route from an exhibition in London area (Wembley?) back to Crewe. No electric route there but no AL3 in the game either. Just an aside.
Its a shame AP don't do what Just Trains do that is have 2 sets of the same scenarios, one that requires all the dlc and other that runs on base TS classic content that way people without the full amount can access the scenarios, while I do have all the dlc required for the 87 scenarios that content took years to build up
well let’s settle this once and for all shall we I have just sat and added up all the requirements and it costs this to get the full use out of the pack with scenarios included. total costs: AP requirements: total cost £343.73 DTG Requirements: total cost £63.95 Just trains requirements: total cost: £51.65 total cost of requirements needed to use included scenarios: £459.33 so total cost. requirements £459.33 Class 87 unit £24.99 total cost £484.32 so wasn’t far off my guess was it. Is it worth that. To most people in the community absolutely as we all in the hobby for the same reason for our passion of the railways and our hobby. But to new people that could be a big turn off. Like I said previously we all want realism but sadly that comes at a cost as can be seen above.
People who are new to trainsim and want to experience AP products are not obligated to run AP scenarios. Learn how to use TSTools and now you have hundreds of scenarios from DTG and the Workshop that you can use to run your AP product. The AI might not be as good or realistic but that's the price you pay.
Realism does come at a cost, yes, but we could stick another zero on that for a tangible model railway, plus the gigantic mortgage and CEO job for the property you'd need to build it in Unfortunately TSC is a bit like that. The more you have, the more you get access to - the less you have, the more you miss out on. Same with freeware routes and their requirements. Many of them will be inaccessible to newbies, but with a bit of thrift you can pick up the odd route here and the odd bit of stock there and in time you end up with a decent collection sufficient to enable many scenarios, freeware routes, etc. FWIW I do agree with the point 749006 often makes about making the most of Locoswap for swapping stock that will only be passing you for a few seconds, or sat in some siding or another. I will be doing that myself when I pick up the 87 tonight and have a look over the scenarios. Although I am at an advantage in that I have 80% of what is on the requirements list.
Personally I prefer TS-Tools for examining assets and whatnots (don't let anyone fool you - it's a terrific piece of kit) but Locoswap for straightforward swapping of stock. Wise to have both IMO
I agree it is good to have both, but personally I prefer Locoswap for basic scenario Loco/ Rolling stock swapouts. I find it much quicker and easier than TSTools but then TSTools has much more functionality with all the other assets.
Well since no one had mentioned in this thread that it was I took an opportunity just in case some weren't as well informed.
Agreed. Even the Weather EP comes with a demo scenario for MML using almost only AP stock. I only buy stock I can use on a great number of routes, the 37 was a no brainer. But I do not need every DMU/EMU out there from AP.
The video unfortunately isn't playing on my phone, but I did notice earlier on my own copy that the wiper doesn't work on the secondman's side. I'm sure that feedback has been sent into AP already for remedying as this is a hotly anticipated locomotive and there's simply no way nobody has not noticed. They are pretty hot on detail fixes like that.
