Initial Reaction/opinions About Tsw3

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by FD1003, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    DTG only adopted the policy of releasing new paid installments in 2020...
    It is a simple matter of value, which is not the same as labour. If DTG want my money, they have to provide something in return for it, and what they offer is not good enough (to me) for the price they are asking for it.
     
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  2. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    2 brand new routes of £40 is more than a fair price and is a tenner cheaper then 2 standalone DLC.
     
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Simple; for that to happen, you’d have to make a new train, and DTG don’t like doing that.
     
  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well if set in the BR classic era most of the motive power would already be available at least for NWC or the Marches.
     
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  5. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    ...unless you don't want the routes.
     
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  6. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    True, but with the SoS upgrade, im not sure they wanted to push out two ‘non modern’ routes.
     
  7. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Don't buy then wait until they release a TSW3 route you do want, by that point the core game will have reduced in price anyway even if there's no offers available.
     
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  8. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Not everything can be made to please everyone all the time. If you're truly uninterested in any of the routes, then you probably shouldn't buy TSW3 at this time. You're not forced to buy it. Your Tsw2 game and routes will still work.
     
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  9. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    But you have caught yourself in a bind here. Either TSW3 can offer core improvements worth charging for or sticking with TSW2 is a good option.
     
  10. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I know it's very subjective, but i kinda like the focus. As a non-local, i feel like i'm slowly learning the geography of London and SE England and this is more interesting to me than constantly skipping around.

    Maybe i just like the idea of networks? I like knowing that i can spawn into a location in any of several routes, and navigate my way from one distant place (say from Reading to Faversham) to another, even if it involves a quick loading screen and maybe a little imagination (yes, it would be much better if it was seamless).

    And with route lengths increasing, DTG could start building those routes you mention, extending the network northward.

    My ultimate dream would be Run8's modular route design combined with TSW's 24h timetable and graphical prowess.

    With locos being decoupled from routes going forward, we really could be heading more in that direction.
     
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  11. chessiet#4231

    chessiet#4231 Active Member

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    Personally I’m not overly excited by the three routes; and I don’t feel inclined to part with my hard earned money just to get improved lighting and weather. Not a day one purchase for me, sorry DTG.
    ChessieT
     
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  12. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    No bind whatsoever. A product can have different value to different people. I have no use for baby toys because I do not have a baby. That does not mean baby toys don't have value or are not, "worth it", does it? Of course not. To some players the TSW3 upgrade will be worth the price now, and to others it won't. You are not the only person who plays the game and its value to you will be different than its value to others. If the upgrade isn't worth it to you at its day 1 price because you have no interest in its routes and the improved weather and training center, then you shouldn't buy it. That doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  13. aliceint#1858

    aliceint#1858 Member

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    when I first saw the tsw2 upgrade, I was worried they would continue this trend of trying to get as much money from us the consumer as posable every few years by forcing people to buy a new version, and now two years later, they prove me right. the lack of consistent and good quality bug fixes, and the fact that alot of tsw2 is not properly bugfixed. and now they want us to trust them enough to buy a new version, 2 new routes at the price might be fine on its own, but its the fact that there is a lack of trust that 1, the simulation will be realistic and not just pushed out the door half A**ed like SOS, or missing a ton of features. 2 that the long standing bugs like routing and signaling will continue to be busted. and 3 the continued use of shortcuts like AI timetables and lack of accurate testing of routes. with 4 being that with outstanding bugs breaking routes on tsw2 and tsw1 still not fixed by now, we should have zero reason to spend any more money with DTG on tsw3. especially as tsw2 likely will not get any more fixes as shown historically with tsw1 after tsw2 came out. From a consumer pov, DTG is toxic and untrustworthy, until they change their ways I will not spend any money on tsw2-3 or whatever. and I do suggest the rest of you do the same as you are worth more then what DTG gives you. you deserve better.
     
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  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I see the hyperbole levels have suddenly sky rocketed! Shame we aren't capable of spending our own money how we like!
     
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  15. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    1. Initial beta team feedback for the Add-ons Manager is positive, and we're aiming to get TSW2 version out before the release of TSW3, with TSW3 version coming soon after launch (more on the Roadmap tomorrow).

    2. The timetables aim to be as realistic as possible with passenger and AI traffic, so whilst they wouldn't be 'random', they'd be as 'accurate as we can make them.
     
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  16. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    So, you'll need to redownload your Add-ons between games, but as soon as you have them downloaded onto TSW3, you won't need TSW2 (and its Add-ons) any more.
     
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  17. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that this isn’t worked into the core of TSW 3 is *alarming*.
     
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  18. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Current Preservation Crew content we plan to release for both games (which include bug fixes for those routes).

    Roadmap will detail this tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  19. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Meh, no care of the UK or DB route, what would sell me on TSW3 would be how well Cajon Pass is portrayed in the game....

    At least I can only buy Cajon via the US starter pack if I want to, but may or may wait for a sale.....

    And as far as Cajon goes.....
    -How much better is the ES44C4 compared to GE's other locos in TSW2, does it actually act like a C4 or a reskinned AC44/ES44?
    -Is the DB better than previous routes?
    -How good is the night lighting on the route?
    -How well is the scenery in important places (San Bernadino yard/Depot, Sullivan's Curve, Mormon Rocks, Frost Flyover, Victorville Narrows, Barstow Hump Yard and Depot, Hill 582, The 1996 memorial)
    -What is the status of the UP subbing from Sherman Hill, I've only heard from someone else that its only gonna be AI trains on the Palmdale Cutoff
    -Are the sounds much better?
    -What kind of local and yard duties are available for the SD40-2?

    Really how well Cajon Pass is done is whats gonna make or break TSW3 for me.
     
  20. iphan318

    iphan318 New Member

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    Really wish they made a bundle that was just Cajon Pass and Kassel-Wuzburg for the people that already have SEHS, priced at like US$40 or something like that, I would be totally down to buy that but I really don't feel like paying for a route that I already paid for.
     
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  21. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Does your progress you made with the routes in TSW2 including the collectibles also transfer over.
     
  22. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    From the FAQs:

    Will my Train Sim World 2 progress carry over?

    Data uploaded to your Dovetail Live account (Content uploaded to Creators Club, Mastery, Railfan Shots) will transfer between games. You may have to redownload your uploaded Creators Club content when you first log into your Dovetail Live account on Train Sim World 3.

    In-game progress related to your game profile (driver log, levels, liveries, and scenarios not uploaded to Creators Club) is under investigation, and we will update you when we know more.

    Train Sim World 3 will have new achievements on all platforms. This will include new add-ons and Train Sim World Compatible add-ons, so achievements will not transfer between Train Sim World 2 & 3. We are investigating whether progress achieved on Train Sim World 2 can contribute to achievements in Train Sim World 3, but this falls into the game profile progress mentioned above.
     
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  23. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Although I have already pre-ordered TSW3 and looking forward to the new content....I totally get the negative feedback. If TSW2 is abandoned as TSW2020 was, then people have a right to be curious as to why so soon after it's release only 2 years ago.

    I think DTG may have made a slight mistep in making TSW3 a new product again. I assume the Unreal Engine version is still on 4.26 for TSW3 (I haven't seen any mention of this -- If it was UE5 it would have been made very obvious)

    The TSW2->TSW3 core update probably should have been free and the routes payware as an option is how I thought it was going to go. It is what it is....
     
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  24. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    In times like these I go back to watching the great Western express reveal.
    Why haven't we kept narrated scenarios which add immersion.
    Bring back the Westworld of interesting
    Then there's the reveal of the editor video and you just think what could of been.
    Well It use to be 3 routes for £25.
    Well this is concerning considering previous dlc is unable to be purchased.
     
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  25. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    This would of been a free core update and just paid for the route's
     
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  26. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    So one of my reactions is that they have a clever fix for the route/loco issue. The training centre is going to act as a base route for all locos from now on, so they can sell stand-alone locos which are tied to the training centre but no other routes. As everyone owns the training centre it does an important job in freeing up the loco for use on any route regardless of which routes you own.

    I suspect this is why there were no DTG loco DLCs released recently as they were waiting for this change so now hopefully the roadmap will have several locos added to it.

    One other opportunity is to release packs of locos now which are again not tied to anything except the training centre, but are themed for example around a particular licence or operator or family of locos. There is quite some potential here.

    Secondly, I am going to wait and see what exactly the TSW2 routes get. They need more than just dynamic weather imo, the passengers who react to the weather and the new lighting would be very valuable. I am a little confused if the lighting is route specific or is a core change? Maybe it needs tweaking for each route, but I thought the idea was it is now very much real-time lighting and reflections so it shouldn't need baking per route?
     
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  27. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Now that I am fairly certain I understood how the pricing works, I want to take some time and explain my opinion on it.

    I think that overall it's fair but with some reservations.

    Wether the price is good or not really depends on what routes you like and what routes you already have.

    For example, I am in this "fortunate" position where I do not want Cajon, already own SoS and SEHS, and I am looking forward to the german route. Perfect! I'd pay the price for a standard route DLC + 5€ for the core upgrades, makes sense, perfectly fine, dare I say it's almost a bargain.

    But here are a couple of examples that can make a person feel like they got "screwed over" by this pricing model:

    • I already own SEHS and SoS but I am not interested in neither the german nor the American route, if I want TSW3 I either have to pay for a DLC I don't want, or for a DLC I already own.
    • I already own SEHS, and I want Cajon and SoS, the only way to get both is via the bundle that includes SEHS.
    I'm sure there are other examples I could come up with, but the price issue and how "fair" the price is depends on you and what you want.

    The most straightforward solution would be the possibility of upgrading the core game ONLY for a decent price (let's say 10/15€ so you get a big saving if you get the bundle - where you only pay 5€ for the core upgrade), and then sell each DLC individually for 30€. This could sweeten the pill for people that don't have a boundle that fits them or only want to upgrade the game, I think it's fair since TSW3 improvements will have immediate and noticeable effect on TSW2 DLC, so there is an incentive to upgrade even none of the 3 launch routes interests you

    I don't think it's so bad that it warrants this huge amount of backlash and complaints, but I definitely can see why some people are frustrated, they almost feel forced to either buy something they don't want to buy or something they could have gotten for free.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  28. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I guess they need to consider they can buy it when there’s other routes of interest, need to consider too that you’re adding 45miles to SEHS which historically is a route itself
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  29. aliceint#1858

    aliceint#1858 Member

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    You can spend money how you would like to, however one should consider how your spending habits allow companies to take advantage of you. especially when companies have repeatedly shown distain for actually providing a complete product, or fixing the product to be of the quality standered they say it is. at the very least, you should be smart enough to not preorder anything and wait for it to have reviews that are not overly biased, or at the least have enough counterpoint reviews to see if its really a quality product before you spend your money. but you know what they say, a fool and their money is soon parted.
     
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  30. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought with less than a month to release, you would be able to give a definitive answer about this. I seem to recall you said something similar to PlayStation users when TSW 2 released and the issue was never sorted.

    If issues like this are still unresolved at this stage, it gives me no confidence that the rest of the release will be bug free.

    I've no objection to paying for a bundle of routes, but being forced for the third time to start all the achievements and collectables again is not exactly playing fair with your customers.
     
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  31. archline

    archline Active Member

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    To be honest, the selling point of the TSW3 is much stronger than the TSW2, when the only thing that attracted people to the TSW2 was the SKA, which gave you a 300km/h driving experience. But we still need more new vehicles or upgrades for old ones like the BR185.2, which is really old, bad TCMS, bad sound, and it's really no driving experience compared to the ZUSI3.
     
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  32. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The jump from TSW to TSW2 was pretty iffy in the justification for a new title. This time around I feel they're on much firmer ground. While I still don't know that the additions to weather, lighting, and the training center are truly strong enough for a while new title, I do understand that they were significant investments of time and money that probably deserve some compensation for DTG. They're beyond the expected scope of normal free updates IMO.
     
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure if new lighting and weather effects are strong enough for a new title. If anything that would be a basic expectation for any update to be honest.

    If anything they probably just want a return on updating the game to be honest. As to how much it cost to add these features is anyone's guess but I wonder if they could've recuperated costs via these new routes as dlc?
     
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  34. archline

    archline Active Member

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    TSW3 is good enough if you just simulate trains as a range for comparison. But letting go of this limitation, DTG should look to SCS to learn how ETS2 did what it does now.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That was actually a suggestion I made quite a while back- not only the 'null depot' as a home route for locos, but even to do it with a version of TSC's Academy.
     
  36. PseudoStalker

    PseudoStalker Well-Known Member

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    No hype at all.
    1. No free core update like in TS
    2. Now we have 2 versions of the same game on a same engine
    3. Technically there is a 1(!) new train
    4. No one says any word about optimisation. New PC specs recomendations looks like their fully surrendered in fight with stutters anf FPS drops
    5. They say - we give a free update for SEHS and 465 owners. But I've dont see any offers that ask me to pay only for new(for me) content.
    P.S. Dear DTG, dont forget to remove lightnin an thunder from TSW2, cos this is a TSW3 feature only.
     
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  37. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Here's another concern now since progress doesn't carry over what about livery edited trains will they also be ported over or will they also have to be redone for tsw3?
     
  38. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    The f.a.q states

    Gameplay


    Will my Train Sim World 2 progress carry over?

    Data uploaded to your Dovetail Live account (Content uploaded to Creators Club, Mastery, Railfan Shots) will transfer between games. You may have to redownload your uploaded Creators Club content when you first log into your Dovetail Live account on Train Sim World 3.


    In-game progress related to your game profile (driver log, levels, liveries, and scenarios not uploaded to Creators Club) is under investigation, and we will update you when we know more.
     
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  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You forgot a feature of German high speed tracks the late night Freight which is what Kassel Würzburg has basically daytime pure high speed Late nights and evening Freight and High speed trains. If Future proofed to add an ÖBB Nightjet then it's late night early morning Freight High speed train and sleeper train. Fulda Kassel section and Lohr Würzburg
     
  40. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Well DTG JD, I appreciate your reply. But you´ll understand when I take this with a grain of salt. Seeing is believing!
    Your statement that "the summer hiatus will be used to concentrate on (TSW2) bug fixing" - in hindsight - didn´t go down very well, I have to admit.
    I can live with a few bugs here and there, but what the infamous SoS (sic!) patch did to the rest of the game, that is derailing trains flying all around the routes, is simply not acceptable. This patch broke a lot, including my trust in DTG, and - hell - I don´t even own SoS.
    I´ll give you the benefit of doubt. But before you don´t address the most notorious TSW2 bugs, you won´t see a penny more from me for TSW3.

    BR Pipe
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Re SoS… Have the issues with SPADs on certain services/Journey mode chiefly freight leaving Basford Hall via the Independent Lines been addressed for the TSW3 version? Will these fixes be retro applied to the “2” version?
     
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  42. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I will be doing. There is enough history behind what DTG do, to know the more they hype it, the more likely it smells like the bottom of the compost heap. I can wait patiently for the inevitable 60% off sale, just as I’m doing for N3V’s latest rebranding of Trainz. If the user reviews or feedback on the forum from those usually sceptical turns outto be positive then I might revisit the situation. Until then I have plenty of other games to occupy my time.
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Patronising much!

    I have been around PC games for 20 years so I have seen much of what goes on and have experience to decide, as an adult for myself.

    I will weigh up whether I want to purchase TS3 as to whether I will get enjoyment and use out of it, which I do with every game or DLC and pretty much every other purchase I ever make, obviously sometimes it doesn't work out.

    At the moment, for what it is worth I am on the fence as I quite like the extension to SEHS but I don't know whether it is worth me spending the money on it, so I am likely to hold off and see what new DLC comes along and wait to purchase TSW3 then. However I might not, but don't worry, I will check with you first to see if I should or not!
     
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is a bit disingenuous.
    From what they said on stream they've :
    • rebuilt the OHLE
    • redone the signalling
    • put in a new timetable
    • added in TPWS
    • extended to Ashford on HS1
    • extended to Dartford on NKL
    • you get the 465 included which WASN'T in the TSW2 version
    so hardly a cut and paste job, and if TPWS is added properly and fully then that's one excellent thing to have on all British routes even if it will mean a lot more emergency brake applications when people come to fast up to a red...

    And a rework (see comment above)

    If you own SEHS in TSW2 you get SEHS in TSW3 no matter what version you buy. If you ONLY want the new German route, buy the German starter pack and then you WON'T get the US route, but you'll get SEHS from "legacy rights"

    All TSW2 routes will come to TSW3, most on day of release (see JDs comment). Seems like weather will be upgraded from the off, but the rest they've not said yet. Maybe a preservation crew task over time?
     
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  45. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    What I liked.
    I like the announcement of Dynamic weather , Volumetric skies(3D). Announcement of buying a loco DLC that's not tied to a route add-on requirement.
    The new UI I think looks clean and smart.

    What I dont like.
    Scenario planner one of the best new features that came to TSW series hasn't been upgraded.
    Small extension to SEHS. I don't think the extension is big enough and a missed opportunity - Should of been a brand new uk route we haven't seen it yet part of the pack offering.
     
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  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And rework of OHLE, signalling, addition of TPWS, rework of Ebbsfleet, 5½ miles from Springhead Junction to Dartford, 33 miles from Ebbsfleet to Ashford, also the Class 465 which was separate previously
     
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  47. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a ‘No Buy’ from me.

    After reusing the electrostar a million times, and having multiple feedback threads about reusing older stock, 101DMU, Electrostar etc to then launch an entirely ‘new’ game with just an update to an existing route is unforgivable I’m afraid. So so many lovely routes to model and they’ve chosen to tweak an existing one. ( one that I play on very little I have to say )

    The ONLY possibility I see going forward is when a new route and new rolling stock gets released for TSW3 that I am interested, I will wait until that route and TSW3 are in a heavy discounted bundle, and then I may consider it. This may be a few decades though.
     
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  48. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    I just think they could of done more to make it more interesting. The 33 miles Ebbsfleet to Ashford that's brilliant but feels meaningless to then cover 5 and half miles for a different starting point , they could of also added more track from Favasham towards Dover and Ramsgate. Added the Sheerness branch. Including the 465 adds value.
     
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  49. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    For many it seems buy or bye-bye...
     
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  50. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    It looks fantastic.
    My last buy was The trans Pennine route, and TSW3 is the next.
     
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