Initial Reaction/opinions About Tsw3

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by FD1003, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking of making a list of everyone that says they won’t buy it so I can tick them off when they inevitability do and give themselves away by complaining about it.

    It‘s like the roadmap bingo card, just longer term. I reckon most will have caved in within a couple of weeks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why they did the additional to Dartford. My only thought is that it's an odd stopping point for trains from Medway to just die at Gravesend P1 (no train does this IRL ever)
    At least with a few miles between GRV and DFD you can do some local stoppers from GRV P0 to DFD (onto CHX) and the Rainham to Bedfordshire runs would still be there (even if these should be a 700)
     
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  3. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with the game it self, because i do not own SEHS already, so perhaps i just bought the Standard Edition Bundle since i already own SoS. The problem for me is the specs requirements, will my rigs still capable running the game at decent performance (not everything on ultra).
     
  4. PeteW

    PeteW Active Member

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    See https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/master-the-machine-with-tsw3
    Look for "As an additional bonus, players who already own Southeastern High Speed: St Pancras - Faversham Route Add-on and/or Spirit of Steam: Liverpool Lime Street - Crewe Add-on in Train Sim World 2 will receive the updated versions of these routes for free upon purchasing any copy of Train Sim World 3, including regional starter packs."
     
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  5. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'm really looking forward to this, the weather and lighting improvements are looking v nice, but the major one for me is at last proper approach control signalling for us UK signalling fanatics. Well done DTG for listening on this aspect. Also functioning TPWS and maybe OSS?
    Watched a bit of Dadrails stream last night, and he's already had a go with Tsw3. He mentioned that the driving aspect was vv good, getting more like openbve which has excellent physics/feel. This is from a real life driver.
     
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  6. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    That's absolutely fair. We'll update as soon as we have a definitive answer.
     
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  7. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully for driver data and route progress, it should be a simple as importing the TSW2 save file on first run and making a copy for TSW3, which then subsequently progresses independently of TSW2's save? (Probably with a yes/no confirmation in case some players wish to start a new profile)

    On XBox I know many games import achievement progress from their precursors, so hopefully at least for the route DLCs, this aspect of carrying over progress should be a simple enough matter for TSW2 routes used in TSW3. I imagine only SEHS and its loco DLC might be quirky for this
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  8. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    They're being investigated; from what I can see we're looking at AI firemen being visible, correct formation of mineral wagons, better livery designer support for Gen9, Stop At Scouse scenario available to be completed, and some more minor bits.
     
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  9. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    It would definitely be nice if current timetable status could be carried over if nothing else.

    This gave me another idea, too. TSW3 is said to run the TSW2 versions of currently-owned routes, but those will have to be redownloaded into the TSW3 structure. This can be both a major time hit for even people who have fast broadband, which not everyone does, plus possibly a hardship for those whose internet access includes data quotas. My DLC folder is approaching 100 GB, and I don't have nearly everything. And the game(s) will only continue to get bigger.

    So can I suggest DTG whip up a small downloadable utility that can, after verifying ownership, simply copy our local DLC files over into the new game?
     
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  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Apologies if I momentarily hijack this thread
    I just checked and it's not in the PC xbox app, but it is there in the microsoft store.

    I'd love if JD could spend 2 minutes on stream or write a reply to adress this situation. Right now TSW2 is kind of a mess - still being 4.23 on PC (without any RH or later DLC) hopefully everything will be available for TSW3 and it won't randomly stop getting updates at some point.
     
  11. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely zero interest in paying for a core update while 8th gen is still supported - it wont be any different to the current game while they still support that hardware. I expect zero changes to the draw distance and I also have zero interest in the lack of any rolling stock diversity. If I they ventured out and included something even a tiny bit different to what we have already paid multiple times for id perhaps consider it. Ill just wait another 2 years for TSW4 in the hopes it actually has something worth investing in in it.

    Are they aware other things exist than southern england with EMUs? I thought we'd have had another Class 43/DMU line by now but that must not fit their southern england criteria

    EDIT: Lighting changes are nice, but that means nothing if the rendering and the distance arent also sorted. It also offers nothing in terms of texture improvements - this game has a very distinctive cartoonish look about its textures, very plastic like - if they were to change that id consider paying them for a core update. Maybe TSW 8 will be what TSW should have been.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    PS5 DLC are already different to PS4 version and run at higher resolution, frame rate and draw distance than the PS4 DLC (note that's PS5 DLC running on PS5 rather than PS4 DLC running on PS5 which is also possible)

    Agreed on the rolling stock for the UK side of things. Obviously the US and DE get brand new trains to run though
     
  13. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    From todays roadmap

    "It also features some BR101 services, which lets you take the loco to full speed for over an hour and the Nightjet services, which interweave with the freight at night, forcing a lot of freight trains to wait in a siding for them to pass. "

    Nightjet is Train company, so if DTG are promising nightjet services I sincerely hope they will be liveried correctly with the coach rolling stock such as comfort line sleeper carriages (not sure if the Doppelstock sleeping-cars would run on this line), couchettes all in Railjet liveries along with day IC cars again correctly liveried. In which case consider me stoked. Not to mention the motorail double decked car carriers at the rear (again if they would run this line).

    Surely DTG wouldnt try to pass off a rack of DB IC cars as nightjet services (given they are so so careful over licensing), would they?
     
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sure they would. Can you imagine them putting the work into building a Nightjet (including sleeper and couchette coaches from scratch), with licensed OBB livery, --- and then not just not making it a DLC, but using it strictly as AI??????

    So, they'll cheat.
     
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  15. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Does nightjet include the IC missing cab car which DTG tried to pass as to much trouble to create alot like the to much trouble to create the high door dopplestocks.
     
  16. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    AFIAK Nightjet doesn't run IC cab cars, certainly not on the handful of ones I've travelled on.
     
  17. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Will there be any correction to the crazy sectional running times used in the timetable, please? They mean it’s impossible to keep time, which for many of us makes the whole thing a bit pointless. Thanks.
     
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  18. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, will TSW3 use DX12 on PC, does sombody know?
     
  19. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Completely missed this bit. I am wondering what they are upgrading in SoS. Is there going to be route extensions similiar to SEHS? I was just thinking about cancelling my deluxe edition and opting for the standard one but now I am curious.
     
  20. caspargray

    caspargray Active Member

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    dtg_jd I apologies for another ping, and thank you for your sterling effort so far in answering Qs. TSW3 looks a positive step forward but as usual you are leaving behind far too much unfinished business. Can you confirm please that you will bring all previously announced/promised upgrades on the roadmap to TSW2. And ideally to TSW2 in the near-ish future before you run wild on TSW3 content. And most importantly at the same time as the upgrade is brought to TSW3. As we have first hand evidence from the last time the company did this escapade that bringing it to TSW2 later means bringing it to TSW2 never.

    This is especially important for so many of us. Yes we will probably get TSW3 eventually, but we don’t all have never-ending pockets. I certainly have no plans to upgrade immediately, and look forward to enjoying the new BKL TT, and CalTrain improvements on TSW2. Many thanks indeed again for your work.
     
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I still don't understand how my existing dlc will be integrated into TSW3. Do I have to manually download anything or will the TSW routes automatically appear in my TSW3 library? I have almost all of the available dlc and I don't want to spend half my remaining years downloading 40-50 entire routes.
     
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  22. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    You have to download them again. The compatible DLC will have a badge. If you check out the FAQs page - all the information is there.
     
  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't go to Ramsgate or Dover Priory where the 395s terminate.
     
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  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The FAQ article is poorly written, as I posted elsewhere. I re-read it and it seems to confirm what you posted.
    So, when I first launch TSW3 ( on 9/2 early access ), all that will show up are the three routes listed in the FAQ, right?
    Supposedly there will be a guide for reinstalling old routes. I'll look forward to that.
    I have almost all TSW2 dlc. I hope they will all be compatible and download seemlessly. That's a worry, considering what happened with TSW2020 routes when TSW2 was launched.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  25. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    On steam I imagine it will work the same way as if you had owned TSW2020, the DLC just appeared in your TSW2 once released and a simple case of downloading.

    Not looking forward to having to download 52 DLC if I'm honest, but thats a me problem and I'll probably leave the 187, BKL, Peninsula Corridor & Oakville uninstalled until they get their PC updates. So I guess thats only 48 to download.

    What does need clarifying is if we purchase and TSW2 content after TSW3 is released is will we get the TSW3 version as well (Im thinking steam key reseller sites) or is it a 1 time deal.
     
  26. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it will be a one time deal. Buying TSW1 DLCs from steam key reseller sites (legitimate ones, at least) gives you the corresponding TSW2 DLC.
     
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  27. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Good to know, I've only ever and only will use legitimate ones.
     
  28. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, my initial feelings are sort of a mixed bag regarding this announcement. I really, really hoped we wouldn't see TSW3 yet, if ever. This constant "re-releasing the same game" is something I really hate. Why can't the game stay the same and just get updates, like TS Classic did? If money is an issue, and DLCs alone couldn't finance the core game development, then increase the DLC prices. But I don't think money is the issue, as these re-releases already require usually making new routes, and they are usually a "good deal" for route/price, so it's not like they're getting much more money out of this.

    On the other hand, the new features and improvements do look great. Many small improvements that are not a "must have", but very nice quality improvements. The volumetric clouds are especially good and I hope the lighting improvements will be worth it (not totally sold by the previes so far though). The best improvement in my opinion is definitely the possibility for loco-DLCs to no longer be bound to a home route. Such a change was needed and I am happy it's here.

    But honestly, as good as these improvements are, I just can't believe they couldn't have been made as a patch for TSW2. I feel like the re-release is pointless, just like it was when TSW2 came out. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, but I will still be looking forward to the release. Though the initial routes don't interest me much (though the route lengths and the ICE1 are very nice), I am looking forward to seeing what else will be coming after the release. Hopefully some interesting routes and trains. Though if the game keeps getting stuck at the same three countries yet again, then I can't really be interested in those.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's safe to say that the announcement of TSW3 hasn't been very positive. Their announcement video/trailer for instance has 1.2K likes but 2K dislikes so more dislikes than likes and their 40 minute video talking about features for tsw3 have 1.1K likes but 1.5K dislikes on YouTube. Not really great for an announcement of a new game to be honest and here on the forums, there does seem to be a mixed reception
     
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  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to the Brussels Midi Aachen Hbf to Wien/Innsbruck sleeper train. That one runs on Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Kassel Würzburg by using the Lohr connector Line.
     
  31. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I have done that service - Well Vienna to Brussels in 2020 and I certainly don't recall a cab car although I only really got to explore the train whilst laying over in Aachen, as we boarded fairly late with a 3 hours delay on departing Vienna.
     
  32. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to lie....having no savegame capability on 85-116mile routes is going to be tough (albeit temporarily). Currently in TSW2 I always play a service/scenario in a single sitting, but hard for me to say if I have the time to do more than that on these much longer routes

    Hopefully the feature is re-implemented sooner rather than later (even if it is only 75% working)
     
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  33. karlack26

    karlack26 Well-Known Member

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    Is the improved manual firing still coming to SOS for TSW2 or is that locked behind the new pay wall now as well ?. Can we get a road map of all the stuff that is actually coming to TSW2 now ? Seeing how most stuff you announced this past couple of months was actually for a different game.
    How much longer do I have to wait for preservation crew updates for TSW2 that were said to be coming to TSW2, but were instead prioritized for the unannounced TSW3. I wish I knew this when I purchased this stuff in in early July. I would have refunded it before the 2 hour steam return policy was up. I saw updates were coming so i was like okay i can live with it for the time being. Saving sort a works.
    I cant run Peninsula with out it crashing, its the only route that does this and we all know how reliable saving is in this game, ah saving another fix never coming to TSW2 it seems. So when can I enjoy the content I already paid for. Or do i have to fork out more money to fix the things i already paid for/ ?
     
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  34. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    From todays roadmap:
    Screenshot 2022-08-10 22.46.03.png
     
  35. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Well-Known Member

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    Seems that the reason for that player base difference comes down to the approach these two companies have taken over the past decade. They both had pretty similarly sized player bases in 2012. Neither company has changed strategies very much either. Truck simulators and train simulators are also similarly niche. The difference is that SCS has treated its customers with far greater respect. It's as you said, they do not charge for things that should be free, whereas Dovetail does. SCS also goes back to improve older content for free, whereas Dovetail has only been doing so in these full priced re-releases of the same game. On top of the ongoing support, SCS's work is also higher quality and lower priced than Dovetail's.

    SCS's practices have allowed them to retain players, which has grown their player base and their company greatly over the past decade. Dovetail's practices routinely lead to them losing customers, leading to a pretty stagnant player base size, and no doubt less budget.

    Honestly, I'd love a good train simulator as much as I enjoy the truck simulators. The reason why I haven't given Dovetail a dime in over two years now, whereas I am happy to buy SCS's products, is entirely down to the amount of respect I feel from the company as a customer, and the quality of the product I receive. Dovetail is quite genuinely among the worst I have experienced in both of those regards, for a company of their standing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  36. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Ok then and for TSW 3 Base route how would the game manage that one? The only way for that to be playable on Kassel Wurzburg is that it must be merged with Main Spessart Bahn to include the Lohr connector Line. It takes 40 minutes to reach Asschaffenburg from Wurzburg and it will be following a DB 83xxx freight that must go to SFS Kassel Wurzburg from Lohr using the new 185.2 LZB capable.
     
  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, not similarly. Trucks are a much bigger niche than trains.
     
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  38. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    [citation needed]
     
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  39. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Well-Known Member

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    They are now, thanks to SCS's success that I mentioned. Again, 10 years ago, the player bases were about the same size. You can see this for yourself on steam charts by comparing Euro Truck Simulator 2's player count, and Train Simulator's player count. Both hovered around 2000 daily players, give or take. Difference is that Train Simulator barely grew at all, whereas Euro Truck Simulator 2 grew massively.

    Prior to ETS2's release in 2012, SCS had been making truck simulator games for at least another decade prior. However, until ETS2, they released new games all the time. Much like Dovetail is doing with their train simulators now. They didn't end up being very popular though, did they? It wasn't until SCS decided to stick with one game (two if you count American Truck Simulator, but it doesn't replace ETS2), and follow their current consumer-friendly practices, that their popularity skyrocketed.

    Again, I'd love a good train simulator game as much as I love the truck simulators. I don't play them because of Dovetail, not because I like trucks more. Honestly, I like trains considerably more than trucks. I know I am not the only person to feel this way either. One very quick look at Twitter, Youtube, TSW3's Steam forums, or anywhere else this game is being discussed, will make that very obvious. This is a very mixed reception to a "new game". People being angry at Dovetail is hardly a new thing either. This is just the latest example.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    When I see the trains in ETS2 and ATS I find myself wishing SCS would branch out into the rail simulation field. Sure they could be massively successful at it too. And still manage to keep a working reliable save game, too.
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Steampowered.com lists TSW3 as requiring DX10...

    No route extension for SoS, but the volumetric skies will be in from day one on SEHS-3 and SoS-3 whereas all other preserved routes only have the dynamic weather from day 1

    TSW3 DLC will be different from TSW2 DLC (they have to be to dissociate the locos from the routes) so it's likely you would have to download all TSW3 DLC for them to work.

    Not all of them. Most of the 395s via Gravesend terminate at Faversham, most via Ashford at Ramsgate or Dover. Some "do the Thanet loop", Going from STP via GRV to Ramsgate then continuing on via Ashford back to STP.

    It's not been received by many, because they don't see an advantage in what DTG are trying to do. That's up to them really

    So we didn't get a big update to GWE recently, or any other preserved routes? Strange, I've had those updates...
    Just because people aren't getting what they want, doesn't mean they're getting nothing.
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I find it odd that DTG haven't addressed this core feature... Obviously I don't know all the ins and outs but saving seems to be a fairly vital thing to do when sessions can be hours in length.
     
  43. CryPosthuman

    CryPosthuman Member

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    I would force DX12 in the start options because for me TSW2 runs smoother with DX12.
    No brainer for me to do that also in TSW3.
     
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  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder if the issue is keeping track of the precise physical state of every moving train.

    In which case, there’s a fairly elegant if not completely ideal solition. Do what Run 8 and indeed ETS2 and ATS do. Resume with all trains (road vehicles) at a stand and just have them start to move off from a zero state. It may bring in a few minor delays but given AI accelerates like a bat out of hell shouldn’t be a major factor. If need be also have the player train resume from a stand, which is what you must do with the G6 anyway.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I would say that's an INelegant solution, but then I do some programming and would see slapping "zeroes on everything" as something people would find unacceptable.
    But it does leas to the question of how these things are monitored in game. Surely there's something monitoring the state of each train (especially the player train) to maintain the status in game (especially when you stand up and the cab is no longer the focus.
    Something somewhere is remembering that the lights are in day mode, the power is at zero, the brake is at 33%, the handbrake is off etc.
    Obviously things like brake pipe levels, compressor and reservoir levels etc will also need to be monitored, so why not just save state that?
    Maybe they're restricted in save state size on consoles or something similar...
    Personally I work with databases in my coding and can see a fairly simple insertion clause allowing for all states associated with any train allowing for everything being monitored being saved, so long as the state is associated with the asset
     
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  46. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Well-Known Member

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    The save game still being looked at worries me with these longer routes.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Two simple solutions (assuming you're running on PC).
    1. when starting the game, make an estimate of the time you have to play the game and limit your scenario or timetable choices to that time minus five minutes
    2. when you want to leave the game for a time, pause the game and put your computer into sleep mode. This shoves the state into memory and stops your computer running at high speed to cope with the game being run. I believe this also works if you switch users on your machine (that would require having a TSW login separate from your main one though which may cause issues for some)
    Obviously DTG should get their fingers out and close out this major core game flaw, but still
     
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  48. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    It depends whether your system is CPU-bound or GPU-bound. DX12 shifts more processing to the GPU, so if performance is currently limited by CPU power you will see an improvement, whereas if your GPU is the bottleneck, it could make performance worse.
     
  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which is why there could be a switch in game to move between the two...
    Can be done by the user on startup I know.
     
  50. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    I think whether DX11 (default) or DX12 is better, is largely determined by your system hardware I don't think the route or scenario you're playing makes that much difference, so I don't see how an in-game switch would be useful.
     
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