Welcome to the 173rd thread about TSW3. I know, it's getting old. However I feel like throwing my view out there - especially in the face of some negativity across the forums. Of course, people are entitled to their opinion, and as always there are people using the "scam" and "rip-off" cards. So I'm just going to say what I think about the features, routes, trains and other stuff. Without further ado, let's begin. Southeastern Highspeed - Extension Following the release of the 465/9 DLC it fast became my most played train at the time, propelling SEHS into the top spot along with it. Even though the route was the opposite of perfect, I have to say I enjoyed it, despite my critical view of it. Despite my hopes of a new route - WCML Over Shap being in the hat - I am not overly disappointed by this. Firstly, the route is almost doubled in size to 90 Miles, allowing the 395 to stretch it's legs along HS1 down to Ashford, and the 465 and 375 get a new section as well, to Dartford. Ashford - judging by the screenshots - looks very good, as does Dartford. We haven't seen particularly much of the route's upgraded scenery, however the new lighting, clouds and timetable (next talking point) are all sounding/looking good so far. Timetable: 2020 to 2019. Southeastern's timetable currently kills it. It sucks the life out the route and makes for a very minimal variety in service. I suppose the choice of 3 (including the 465) trains helps that, as well as the Railtours and Freight that comes via layers. This is just a side effect of using a timetable impacted by the pandemic. Now, we have a timetable from 2019, before it all happened, and it looks excellent. As shown in the Roadmap, we already see where the extra life comes in: ↑ Strood, TSW2 ↓ Strood, TSW3 I think it does speak for itself. It's a revitalisation of a route that had so much potential, and honestly it is a good choice. Also, 90 Miles, 4 Trains, Carries over from TSW2? That's a massive win there. Kassel - Würzburg Ok, the big one - literally. I'm no expert on the German Railways so I don't have much info on my side, so this will be opinion: I am personally very happy with this. Firstly, the ICE 1. Don't really need to say anything here. Also the return of the ICE 3 for a bit of variety is fantastic. The length of the route is remarkable for TSW, and promises to be a good high-speed experience. The timetable looks good from the snippet we have seen so far, with a 2½ hour service spotted: And of course this also shows our first overnight services, a first and a welcome one. Hopefully night lighting delivers. Cajon Pass Not much of a US Fan and even less so a Freight one, however Cajon Pass has my eye. Firstly, from the minimal amount of content we have seen so far, the route looks stunning. The BNSF locos in the setting (I presume) sun is truly wonderful. Hopefully the route delivers, and to that end - hopefully it becomes my first proper US Freight experience. Weather and Environment Overhaul I don't think I could talk about TSW3 without mentioning this. The upgrades are looking good. The flashes from the lightning illuminating the train (seen in the trailer), the snow effects, rain splashing and, most importantly, Mary Poppins Sim World- I mean Umbrellas... The Volumetric Clouds look brilliant, and I'm hoping that Dynamic Weather makes the game consistently interesting. Oh and... Sparks Of course, the weather effects and related stuff aren't perfect, however it's a step up from TSW2 (well, the clouds especially are a massive one.) Training Centre, Seperated Loco DLCs and Support for TSW2 A 'TS Academy' or 'TestTrak' style place in TSW is something I have wanted for a while. Just somewhere to take a train a run and practise driving it. Also, the separation of the basic 'Welcome to TSW' tutorial from starting up a new route is a plus. It's just frustrating hearing the same basics every single new DLC, when it's basic stuff to do with the game. Although I would like to keep the collectable part there. Makes it easier On to Loco DLCs, and I'm mixed. I've never been for it however now it's done I'm not against it either. Especially with the focus on the Training Centre and Creators Club for these trains. Support for TSW2 (the remaining preservation updates and whatnot) remaining for the time being is good as well. This means it won't just be cutting off those who can't make the jump immediately. UI The UI, despite having a racing game feel, is almost perfect. The ability to choose the loco first is good, and no longer having everything hidden behind a route is helpful, and should help make a more linear experience. Well done Dovetail, especially after the Rush Hour UI... Finally... To conclude, I can safely say I'm excited for TSW3. I do look forward to seeing the preview streams and seeing what's in store. To end; I'm just going to drop a few numbers (everyone loves 'em, right?) here: Ignoring cases of SEHS/SOS carrying over, the various bundles work out at: £29.99 per route - Any Starter Pack £13.33 per route - Standard Edition ~£12.49 per route - Deluxe Edition So really, there are no bad deals.* *Financially speaking. Depends on your interests. I'll come back to this thread as the weeks go by.
here's a bad deal.... what if the choice of 3/4 DLC's don't interest you? i am only interested in German local passenger stuff, S-Bahn / RegionalBahn, lots of stations to stop at with a tight schedule that means once you start to lose time, it's hard to make it up... so it's a challenging run. High speed stuff is not my thing, i.e. leave the station, set the train to auto drive, and watch the computer generated scenery go past for an hour, bleeehhh. that means the German route is not on my list of DLC's to buy, I don't care about uk or american train operations, be it steam or diesel or electric etc, so to try out TSW3 and see how it handles the porting of the TSW2 routes with the new lighting etc, i have to buy a route i don't want? As people keep saying... a standard DLC route is/was £25, so the TSW3 core update and training centre is £5... well where can i buy just the core update and training center? as that's all i want atm, i don't expect it for £5, but i would pay ~£15 for it... but that's not an option, i have to buy a route i don't want to get TSW3.
Yeah nice to see someone who like me has an overall positive view. Obviously it will not be perfect but people constantly complaining is tiresome. My only issue is my lack of interest I german and american stuff and already owning SEHS and having to pay for something I don't want or already own but to be fair they have done a lot of work to further enhance the route. Very much looking forward to September.
The 2hr 30 min service ends at Duisburg Rheinhausen Section which is a Steel Mill. On the Roadmap that gets held by an ÖBB Nightjet Hans Albers which has the priority over it.
I have to agree with you I'm very excited for TSW3, all 3 of the routes look great (I'm a bit disappointed theres not a new British route, but a extension and a few other upgrades to SEHS is still brilliant), the new dynamic whether, lightning, the train kicking up snow, training centre and of course umbrellas they all look amazing, I'll definitely be getting TSW3 day one (unless of course the routes and stuff turns out to be terrible, but I highly doubt that).
I'm kinda hoping the passenger Rapturing bug is put back in, because people with open umbrellas suddenly flying up in the air would be hilarious.
I do agree with alot of the things you've said. I think the lighting and weather improvements are great alongside much needed UI improvements. Training centre is great. But I think it boils down to what people are getting for their money. Now obviously there's no way we can play tsw3 without buying dlc alongside it. If you own tsw2 it would be nice if you could pay a small amount let's say up to £15 for just the tsw3 upgrade, no dlc. But I think the reason people feel it's a 'scam' is because if they're not interested in the dlc you don't get much for your £29.99. I think we'd have seen a more positive response if tsw3 improvements were online multiplayer or an UE5 overhaul because paying £39.99 would've felt worth it and even if you weren't interested in the dlcs included it would've been more of a bonus. All I can say to those people at this stage is do not buy tsw3 unless you get it on sale or there's desperately dlc for tsw3 you want to play.
No matter what you'll always have people disappointed with the route choice for these kinds of things, it could've been a old British, a S-bahn German route and a Electric American passenger route, and people who wanted a modern British route, or a highspeed German route, or a American freight route, and many others would all be dissapointed. I dont think DTG could ever do a 3 route pack without disappointing a good portion of the community.
I am loving the route extension being experimented here. I am one of those people who said, I will pay extra money for that and here it is and I am putting my money where my mouth was. I want to eventually run the high speed train on longer routes and this is great to see. I am disappointed that there are still no big UK routes like the WCML and ECML but maybe we will get them in TSW3.
Agree. Single route option should be £19.99. There should be a two route option for players with SEHS and SOS for £24.99. Standard should have been £29.99 with Deluxe £39.99. Far more pocket friendly and might have taken the sting out of the save game farce a bit. So come on DTG, how about it? Not too late to rethink your bundle and pricing strategy.
Hello My Opinion: I really appreciate the work of creating new routes, extend existing ones and fixing problems and implementing new features. I also fully agree that this work shall be rewarded. What I absolutely don't like is the fact that fixing bugs and adding missing features which should have been already in old DLC's from the get go, ere goint to happen now even slower than before! It is great that the TSW2 content will work in TSW 3. But why don't you go ahead and iron out the obvious faulty stuff in TSW2 FIRST(!!!!) and then release TSW 3? One exmaple which makes me really mad.... ICE 3 from SKA. LZB Vmax not showing up in the cabs display but only in the HUD. TDD's are missing indications of the braking system and other bugs. ICE 3 from Munich Augsburg: Same missing features regarding brakes as the SKA ICE 3, because same displays used. Firs screenshot from ICE 1 of the new route: Same displays as ICE3 from SKA and HMA with the same missing and faulty stuff in it. I really have the feeling than besides nice optical additions, the core of the trains, is allways the same and very low end in terms of system functionality. It is beeing resold and resold again instead of fixing it. And what is even worse, that the TSW2 content will not be upgraded to TSW3 standards in Terms of graphical updates and effects etc. TSW2 fixes will be delayed even more. Honestly, why didnt you then went directly with UE5 and made a new game with no support for old content. Now it will be TSW3 with the same UE4 version than TSW2 but with new possibilities only for new DLC's which you can sell. And every user of TSW2 with hundreds of Euros DLC's is beeing put a step back again because your extremely bad Bugfixing shedule is getting even worse. I'd like to buy the new TSW3 and the new HighSpeed route but why would I want to look at non functioning train systems and displays, which are wrong, faulty and already there for ages without being fixed?????
I'd agree with that view if the new routes were the same length as the old ones. But, since they are about 80% longer than before I think the change in price is about right. We asked for longer routes, so it's a bit naive to think they would be at the existing price point.
Not naive. What people are prepared to pay. And the two new routes, as opposed to the makeover of SEHS and SoS both of which I already own are of limited interest to me. Not really fussed about German high speed and Cajon is pointless without the save game working. As stated previously, the UK is on the verge of extremely perilous financial times particularly with regard to energy prices and it is not the time to be asking more for optional entertainment software. I generally pay the same price for a movie on Blu-ray whether it is 90 minutes or a 2 hour 40 minute epic.
I don't really think it's about what people are willing to pay at this point, but what dovetail need to charge. After all, DLC has dried up for a few months, and they have went ahead and created the three longest routes we've ever seen. And considering the timeframe it's safe to imagine they brought in more 2nd-party folk than usual, costing more. And with the rising inflation it's actually surprising that DTG have kept prices consistent for all these years, especially now, and I think that's what has tipped it over the edge. Of course there's the possibility that this is a one-off thanks to both the DLC gap and the size of the products, and I think everyone hopes it is, however Dovetail are making a move they probably would have been expected to do years ago.
The reality is most entertainment products have not gone up much at all. A Blu-ray costs pretty much now what it did 10 years ago. With the odd exception, same applies to games. People will only pay what they can afford of feel is value for money and, unlike our gas and electric bills, do have a choice.
Yeah that's very true i guess we should probably compare to new release games that are reaching up to £60 now. Which makes tsw3 look a bargain. And the gas and electric bills, well that's something that will just become unaffordable.
I'm pretty certain DTG themselves have actually said inflation isn't that huge of a factor with pricing. The price increase I think has far more to do with route length than anything else.
One things for certain they all buy their umbrellas at the exact same shop that only sells one style and also only stocks green coloured umbrellas
Hate to be a buzzkill on this but there WON'T be much difference in the drive patterns for the route, only more of them Gravesend P0 to Dartford : Charing Cross and Cannon Street stoppers - all 465s (not 376 in game which could sub). Most are all stoppers, some skip through Stone Crossing, Swanscombe and Northfleet Rainham to Dartford : Thameslink service - should all be 465s, IRL would be 700s. Stops at all stations Ebbsfleet to Faversham : Either Faversham terminator or on via Thanet (Ramsgate is the usual destination, though could be the loop) - 395s - skips Higham "Meopham" to Faversham - All Chatham Mainline services. Mostly 375s with a few 465s thrown in Ebbsfleet to Ashford - single stop, all 395s Strood to Hoo : Class 66s (should be 59s), aggregates Hoo to Dartford : Class 66s - all freight, non-stop Medway Valley line - class 465s or 375/3, AI only Only addition I can see might be the very infrequent (two in the morning, two in the evening) service from Victoria to Sheerness, though this would be AI from Rainham as the line to Kemsley isn't modelled
Yup. When TSW2 came out, I was confronted with a subway route (no interest), an A-B high speed route (little interest), and Sand Patch (already owned).
People seem to express disappointment in advance of every route released. There will always be frustrated expectations due to the medium and the fact that they have to work acceptably on low powered consoles. My reaction was the same as Bill with TSW2, but was pleasantly surprised when I found myself playing Sandpatch after ignoring it on first release. This time I'm looking forward to Cajon and the SEHS extension. Two out of three ain't bad.
Again with the lower powered consoles comment... (not you per se, seen a lot of it in the last few days) DTG do not build TSW for consoles. They build it on PC for PC and then scale back as much as they need to so that consoles don't just keel over. The issue isn't consoles, but that DTG can't optimize their game generally (hence BML being bloatware, SoS having issues etc etc)
Just wait a while. If you don't think the many upgrades they're throwing in are worthwhile, wait until they inevitably bundle TSW3 with other routes in the future - hopefully one of them will be to your taste.
Then why don't they build the PC version with a much longer draw distance? then scale that back for the consoles? why are we stuck with such a short draw distance on the PC?
No idea, but that distance is still higher than on the consoles depending on your settings. PCs can changed from low to ultra, consoles cannot (that I know of), PS4 is stuck on Low, mid range consoles on medium and even the newer consoles only go to High. That's what I remember from what Matt said on stream a few months back One good thing about PC is you can change the settings in the background, which you definitely can't do on consoles
yeah, a few 'engine.ini' commands can change how TSW looks and plays, would be nice to have something like a draw distance slider in the menu on the pc tho, mind i'd love to see a lot of things.... like the ability to key bind all the working controls / switches in a train, not just the few DTG think we want to use, aka take a train like the BR112 / 143 that has a load of switches that you use when driving realistically, but can only be operated by the mouse. something maybe like how Omsi does it, a list of all the controls that can be operated in the train (maybe on a per train basis) and you assign the ones that are important to you to the key combo's you want.... with joystick buttons being a part of the things you can bind a control to........ direct input for joysticks to operate the levers would be the icing on the cake... well, actually an API to allow us to write little programs that handle the controls, and reads data from the trains is the ultimate thing i think, I'd pay the full £50+ for the game right now if it had an API like TSC has, as that feature would make the game so much more flexible, people who don't care for external screens running EBuLa's or joystick control simply don't use it, but those who want to can. Thats what i like to see in a simulator, options so each person can make it personal to them,
I can see why they don't do this as they've stressed they want it to work the same on all platforms, so what works on PC should work in a similar fashion on console, and to be fair to them I can think of only a few things that PC gets (raildriver, adjustable graphics settings) that consoles don't but mapable controls maybe isn't beyond the whit of man
yeah, then we get back to me moaning that consoles are holding back how amazing TSW could really be if they don't have to think 'this feature can't be used on the consoles, so we won't put it in the game' BUT. consoles can use a keyboard, and multiple controllers at once, so having a list of all working controls in a train that you can choose from, and map the keys / buttons you want to the controls that you see value in using should be possible on the consoles?
I was referring mroe to the API on that point. Keyboard remapping (joystick, buttons etc) can all be done on consoles if they have that functionality
ahh gotya, it's one of the things that bugs me where you only get the controls that the game maker think you want assignable to keyboard / buttons, here the raildriver gets a few more things assigned to it that are not assigned to keyboard keys, but the raildriver mapping is all over the place, even 2 versions of the same train (the BR423) have 2 different raildriver button maps, Take the BR112 / 143, there's a couple of switches that are used all the time when doing S-Bahn type work... which these trains excell at i think, the 'run once' the 'program delete' 'power only' 'dynamic braking only' and the 'starting brake hold' and 'dynamic brake decouple' switches, They are all operational, but only the 'power only' and 'dynamic braking only' switches are assigned to raildriver buttons, the others you have to operate with the damn mouse!
Absolutely. I prefferred the BR class 66 in TSC on RD when you could remap the brakes to the up and down keys rather than the brake handle. Much more flexible
i wonder if raildriver input will be in any way changed in TSW3... i still remember when people were asking for an option to reverse the levers (or at least the combined throttle brake lever) as they operate backwards to how they do on German and some UK trains (an option pretty much all other train sims give you) but we were told nope, and an excuse made about muscle memory... which kinda makes out people will get confused if they have to push forwards for power on some trains, and pull back for power on others. only, not everyone has that problem of not being able to change the way they push or pull a lever to operate a game depending on the train they are driving, and some people never even drive American trains, but are forced to operate the levers backwards driving the German and english trains,
Hasn't been mentioned so I would say "no" Which should surely mean that all other functions should be in the same place on all versions of trains... so your fingers don't forget which button to press?
exactly... yet the 3 buttons that every German train uses... for the PZB/LZB switches, can be in a different location on the raildriver depending on who wrote the button assignment for it. sometimes they are in the middle, sometimes near the left end, AND they are reversed to how they are in the trains, i.e. in the trains Wachsam is the rightmost switch of the 3, on raildriver it's the first of the PZB buttons from the left.
Dont know if a 376 could sub in Game as the current TSW2 limitation is limited to same consist size. Class 465 come in units of 4 while 376 comes in units of 5. Dont know if they have changed the subsitution system in TSW3 but don't think they have.
As I have mentioned before, if we're going to use the price per route analogy it is a bad deal. I can't find pricing for Train Simulator prior to 2014 but assuming it was £30 as it was then, RailWorks 2 had a price per route of £3.
Good G*d - you are comparing prices 8 years in the past - wouldn't we all like to buy a car at 2013 prices!
