Kassel-würzburg / Tunnels And Bridges

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Pipe, Aug 11, 2022.

  1. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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  2. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    There do seem quite a few tunnels on the route. Mind you, the longest tunnel is 10.8 km (6.74 miles) long and an ICE, at 250 km/h (156 mph), will only take just over two and a half minutes. Freight trains will of course take longer but as they only run at night, it will be dark anyway. :)
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Actually rather crafty. Having several tunnels that length cuts down considerably on the amount of scenic placement the route builder needs to place.
     
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  4. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    No doubt this is why the route was selected.
    6pn0jb.jpg
     
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  5. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Oooh Does this mean another underground route is on the cards?
     
  6. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    No, it means that most High Speed lines run through tunnels.

    Nothing more.
     
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  7. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Lol this exactly. "we want longer routes!" ... "no not like that". Tale as old as time with this place.
     
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  8. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind, with the new tunnel lighting, we should see more of the tunnel now.

    Hopefully the previous experience of driving through an abyss is gone.
     
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  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    High speed routes necessarily use lots of tunnels, be cause they need to be fairly straight and fairly level. Ergo they go through mountains instead of around or over them.
     
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  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The reason why it has tunnels was for two purposes one high-speed trains in order to maintain their max speed of 280 kmh and the second reason was that during the Evening Freight trains use the line this is a key feature of German SFS except for Rhein-Main which was built to carry passenger trains no freight trains due to its steepness.
     
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  11. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    There´s no discussion about that. It´s a no brainer.
    But the fact remains that the scenery builder had a much lighter workload than having to build, say, 70km of Koblenz - Bingen.
    Still, I´m curious about the BRIDGES. There´re also quite a few, quite long and quite high. Hopefully this can make up for the tunnel extensions, where you - let´s face it - just stare into a black hole, no matter how improved the lighting got.
     
  12. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't expect it to be that boring tbh.
    When I was younger I used to travel the route IRL quite regularly and it was more of a bit like tunnel- scenic bridge view - tunnel- scenic and so on. Many valleys to be crossed and due to the higher speeds most tunnels fly by in a short amount of time. While of course hardly any route can hope with the rhine valley visualwise this one should be quite entertaining in this regard as well ;)
     
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  13. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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  14. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

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    ...but it still equates to over 130km of not tunnels, which is almost as much as all the Rivet routes put together..so let's be a bit 'glass is half full' on this one :)
     
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  15. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    The tunnels distribute like this:

    Tunnels1_SKW.JPG Tunnels2_SKW.JPG

    Totals: 86.881m in tunnels
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
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  16. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    It won’t really matter as at those speeds, a 1000m tunnel will take a matter of seconds to go through.
    What you will get is the true high-speed feeling of seamlessly transitioning from viaduct to tunnel.

    Plunging into hills one minute then soaring above valleys in the next.

    You can get a taste of half of the route at least here. It’s just the Fulda to Kassel section:


    Most of the tunnels seem to have lights in which will help it seem more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
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  17. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    maths isnt my strong point,
    but if the route length is 183 km,

    And of that 87 km is in tunnels, 96km is out of tunnels, that's still ~90% of the route in tunnels.
     
  18. NiTE

    NiTE New Member

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    87km out of 183km is about 48% in vs 52% out of tunnels.
     
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  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    It is less than 50% of the route that will be tunnelled. Not much less, but less.
     
  20. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Not quite- you’ve just got your numbers mixed.

    (183km/100) x 87km = 47.5%

    So just under 50% will be in tunnels.
     
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  21. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    Doh!... yup i said maths isnt my strong point,

    What i was trying to get at... the longest route ever, but almost half of it is tunnels,
     
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  22. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the only fair comparison I can make is Koln-Aachen and LGV. I don’t own any other high-speed routes.

    On LGV, what I find is I’m mostly concentrating on keeping the speed under check on the heavy gradients and obeying the tvm.
    Obviously that will be similar on this route with the distinct gradients and LZB. I never run with AFB on as without it there is more to focus on.
    You may as well not be in the cab with LZB and AFB together.

    It’s interesting how little I notice the scenery at those speeds, there’s just no time.
     
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  23. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Well that is the reality of Highspeed routes.

    It’s already been worked out, that the longest tunnel on the route will take little over 2 minutes to get though, so I don’t think it’ll be an issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
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  24. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    wonder if someone will work out how long it will take to do the distance between the tunnels,

    it seems to be a tunnel every 1 to 5 km, so the scenery is broken down into short chunks, then a tunnel which i imagine will be the standard generic tunnel where it's just a repeat of the same segment over and over till the end.
     
  25. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    A train going at 60kph will cover a km in 1 minute.

    At 120kph it will do a km in 30 seconds.

    If you are barrelling along near the max speed at 240kph then you’ll be covering a km every 15 seconds.

    A 4km chunk will therefore take a minute at 240kph.
     
  26. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    is 240 kph the max speed of this line?

    and to think, in 1988 along this line they set a record for doing 406.9 km/h,
     
  27. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Not sure- I think someone said 250kph somewhere

    True, they will have made a decision based on safety and economy. The faster you run your trains, the more maintenance they need and the quicker the track wears out.
     
  28. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    The route max speed is 280 kph
     
  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But the ICE1 tops out at 250
     
  30. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  31. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Exactly- I said safety

    It will be cool to go 280 if it is.
     
  32. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  33. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean 175 mph I would say that is easily obtained on DB BR403 max speed 300 kmh under LZB Rhein Main ETCS Schnellfahrstrecke Leipzig Erfurt Bamberg Nürnberg. DB BR403 280 kmh on LZB Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Kassel Würzburg and Mannheim Stuttgart.
     
  34. derek#2931

    derek#2931 Well-Known Member

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    I mean nothings stopping us
     
  35. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    Try going from (say) Milan to Rome on the Italian high-speed lines. This journey used to take hours, but it was through amazingly beautiful countryside (well, it was Italy). Now it takes half the time, but most of the journey is in tunnels, with nothing to see except for a quick glimpse every now and then to show you what you're missing :cool:. Similarly Madrid-Segovia. TBF you can still do the old routes on local trains, if you've got the time to spare.
     
  36. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s just the right amount for the route to leave the EU :D

    I am very much looking forward to going in and out of tunnels on the route. I love going in and out of tunnels on RSN and this will be like that but on steroids. DTG say they have a new method for light baking so I am hoping to see a much better condition of the lighting in the tunnels. Of everything coming to TSW3 this route has me the most excited to be honest. It’s the first time high speed gets a proper outing. I like LGV (and it is one of the most played routes in the game - kids like speed I guess) and this route adds in some other aspects that are missing from that dedicated high speed line, varied timetable being the most obvious and the extra length being next. Freight too for a slower drive for watching the scenery a bit more albeit mainly at night. I hope there is sufficient moonlight.
     
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  37. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Praise for the first Italian route if it ever comes to NOT be the high speed Bologna to Florence :D

    Btw in the announcement video, it has been mentioned that ICE1 and ICE3 will have different speeds because of ICE3 being lighter. Does anyone have some exact numbers for that? How slower does the ICE3 have to go?
     
  38. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about an International one Milano Chiasso Lugano via Monte Ceneri Base Tunnel that way Luzern Sursee gives Rabe 523 on Chiasso lugano section as along as Luzern Sursee is owned. Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel Würzburg can be extended North to Hannover if Merged with Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Kassel. West to Frankfurt Am Main Hanau if Main Spessart Bahn West Asschaffenburg Hanau Frankfurt Am Main is built. Right now Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel Würzburg can merge with Main Spessart Bahn using the Lohr connector Line.
     
  39. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    As a curiosity, on the Main Spessart Bahn route we can pass under one of the viaducts near Gemünden.

    0a05769b-8c45-465e-bd1f-9b17014ce8f1.jpeg
    b375beef-9d21-4b01-a06f-19d7794b4ac3.jpeg
    Soon we will be able to drive over it at full speed :love::love::love:
     
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  40. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    two and a half minute of dark tunnel does feel quite long TBH. Never liked the longer tunnels in NTP and SEHS either. Not sure how long those take to pass at line speed.
     
  41. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    No, the ICE1 will reach the full line (and its max) speed of 280 kph on the High Speed line built for it. In game, and in reality.

    You may confused it with the first series of ICE4s, which had a max speed of 250, which is now raised on some units to 265.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  42. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest, because I can't remember the exact reason Matt gave when he covered it or in which video/stream it was. Why does the ICE 1 have a higher top speed than the ICE 3 on this route? Was it something to do with the weight of the locos keeping them steadier on the viaducts?
     
  43. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    ...yes, a part of the new SKW route was already in MSB, at least a viadukt over the Main in Gemünden. It will certainly be interesting to see Gemünden from above the viaduct, sitting in the ICE1 or ICE3.

    MSB meets SKW.jpg
     
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  44. thatyaxthing#3408

    thatyaxthing#3408 Member

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    The ICE 3 is lighter so it has to go slower on some of the taller viaducts. I think it is to do with high wind speeds.
     
  45. samuelbrookes1

    samuelbrookes1 Active Member

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    SEHS has 20.5km of tunnel in the 37km between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, which is 55%
     
  46. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    so... the real test will be a 100+ mile route with very few tunnels, so the scenery has to be drawn all the time as it's in view all the time?
     
  47. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Great find! I love it when routes are "intertwined" like this in the game. Gives a sense that you are part of a network.
    Here is cab ride video of the route. By the time TSW3 releases, you will have remembered all the names of the tunnels on this route :)
     
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  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Wow and in Game only the Gemünden Bridge is built it's on top of the Gemünden 15kv 16.7hz substation where there is a Collectible located on Main Spessart Bahn DLC. If DTG wants to make the Schnellfahrstrecke busy on the Würzburg Side why not Merge it with Main Spessart Bahn to become Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel/Asschaffenburg-Würzburg. The mentioned Nightjet ÖBB becomes the 01:51 or 02:01 Asschaffenburg Hbf to Würzburg Trips towards Fulda and Aachen/Duisburg 03:27 Würzburg 04:07 Asschaffenburg. The Aachen section runs Schnellfahrstrecke Köln Aachen as it's 06:58 Köln Hbf 07:47 Aachen while on Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr it's the 07:47 Duisburg Hbf AI Train since it's due at Arnhem Centraal at 09:49. Hans Albers is the 02:50 Wurzburg 03:30 Asschaffenburg trip via Lohr 03:10 then playable Fulda to Kassel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  49. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Not an ad to my suggestions, but in my signature, you can find a link to an MSB extension I proposed some time ago. Talks a bit more about the "interaction" between the two routes as you can actually get MSB to this route in reality through a connecting piece at Nantenbach. Would be crazy to have those two connected now that the high-speed line goes to Kassel.
     
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  50. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If Main Spessart Bahn gets merged with Kassel Wurzburg then it becomes SFS Asschaffenburg/Kassel-Wurzburg. On the Nantenbach connector Line it gets used by the Nightjet the 03:27 Wurzburg 04:07 Asschaffenburg Hbf Hans ALbers Wien/Innsbruck Hamburg Altona Platforms 10-12 then 05:xx-06:xx Fulda Kassel. On the SFS end of Nantenbach connector line is the Rorbach Passing station which means the 185.2 can be held there to let the 182 through which was the Hans Albers or EN420/421 424/425 Aachen Duisburg Koln Wien/Innsbruck Hbf.
     

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