Tsc - The Power To Stop

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Mike Rennie of Smokebox and Gary Dolzall of High Iron Simulations discuss railroad air brakes and operating realistic braking systems in Train Simulator Classic.

    Read More : The Power To Stop (dovetailgames.com)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  2. Smokebox

    Smokebox Active Member

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    Errata: No. 60 "Jupiter" did of course belong to the Central Pacific.
     
  3. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Great news. That's indeed a matter to discuss. Unfortunately on many US locos (by other developers) the brake gauges are just simply displaying wrong values.

    It would just be great if the tactile detents could also be disabled for keyboard controls, as it is very hard overcoming these when wanting to keep a specific brake pipe pressure, especially on a Release-Hold-Apply system. For the 26L there's already good scripts, and the detents are fine there (short release of key to overcome). A seamless movement with an input sensitivity of .25 is what I'm in favour for here (F3s).
     
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  4. Smokebox

    Smokebox Active Member

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    Ctrl+Shift+3 overcomes the tactile detents with keyboard as well as mouse. However, it's not yet implemented on all the previous packs that have Smokebox advanced brakes (but the intention is to get to them all eventually).

    By the way, "Release-Hold-Apply" is actually "Release-Hold-Lap-Apply". What I do is that when I know I'll soon need to apply, I move the handle to Lap in readiness. Then it's easy to move from Lap to Apply and back again as often as needed, without going through the previous detents.

    Hold is a special position that releases the train brakes but maintains (holds) any independent brake pressure that was the consequence of applying the train brakes. i.e. it doesn't affect the pressure set independently by the engine brake.
     
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  5. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Yes, but the detents are still there for keyboard controls e.g. on the latest F3's even if it says they're off.

    One question, what's the difference between hold and lap?
     
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  6. Smokebox

    Smokebox Active Member

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    That keyboard "stickiness" is just the standard behaviour for notched lever controls in TS, nothing to do with the tactile detent scripting.

    Lap maintains the pressure in the brake pipe, against leaks, to what is currently set in the equalizing reservoir. Hold is like Running in that it raises the equalizing reservoir pressure to the value set by the regulating valve (normally 90 psi in freight service), which results in the train brakes releasing (unless the auxiliary reservoirs happen to be overcharged). However, Hold does not lower any pressure in the locomotive brakes that was the result of applying the train brakes (notice that when you apply the train brakes, the J-valve in the locomotive also responds to the change in brake pipe pressure by applying a corresponding amount of pressure to the engine brake cylinders). Running, on the other hand, lowers the engine brake pressure (but without cancelling out any pressure in the engine brakes that was set there by the locomotive brake handle).
     
  7. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Hmm, using a normal InteriorNotchedLever Control, the handle immediately moves for as long as I press the key and as soon as I release it, it springs to and rests in the closest notch.

    Whereas the scripted detents hold the handle in one position until you have pressed the key for a certain amount of time before it starts moving. As you don't know when that time is over (and of course have no real feedback), you'll risk overshooting. (If I had the source script I could show you what I mean). It's that initial detent that is annoying, the handle should move freely until it reaches the first detent - then need you to shortly release the key to overcome the detent instead of requiring you to hold it for moving the handle further. That would be a comfortable control script.

    The thing the script is trying to accomplish is translating the force you need in reality for overcoming a notch into an amount of time a kess has to be pressed. But in reality I have immediate feedback through my hand when the handle moves, on a keyboard I do not feel that. That's problematic. I suggest reversing the script - move till you hit a detent, release the key to overcome, press again until the next detent. (Or really turn them of with a key combo, and move the handle with low input sensitivity)

    Again, I see absolutely no difference using the keyboard between Detents On and Off (referencing the Santa Fe F3). And as for the Release-Hold-Lap-Apply controls, I'm used to have the handle in the Lap position and just tap the keys to release or apply a small amount of pressure and quickly move back to lap, which is almost impossible with those detents. It's ruining it for me.

    It does work fine with mouse control. But I'm not playing with a fisheye FOV and keep my view on the track, using the keyboard. Well, it requires training. Moving a handle...

    To sum it up, we've had two major types of controlling the brake handle. The 26L script used first in Sherman Hill's GEVO - almost perfect (I consider the Run8 controls to be absolutely perfect for this valve: Hit the brake key once - Initial Reduction, then holding it down for slowly moving in the Service area, or Ctrl+click it for FullService). And the non-scripted TrainBrakeControl that allowed smooth adjusting of the ER by knowing your valve percentages (almost all steamers and Kuju locos) with a non-notched lever.

    Want to add, just tested again with detents enabled - from the Running position, pressing the key just a bit too long for overcoming the first detent, the handle runs over all other detents, you're in Emergency in just two seconds. So as the time needed to overcome a detent is about a second, this makes moving the handle a real skill. It's hit or miss.

    Mike, I know you're playing with mouse. But can the script be adjusted for easier keyboard control?

    And thanks for the details on Hold and Lap.:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2022
  8. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Active Member

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    Very interesting information. Thank you both Mike and Gary! Practice makes perfect as they say
     
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