Upcoming Release Master The Machine With Tsw3

I get your frustration and realise you might not be interested in the new routes but if, say, you get the German or US pack, you get a whole new long route, the Training Center (which looks fun), the new weather system plus, if you own them, the vastly expanded SEHS and SOS upgrade all for £5 more than a normal route. If you need SEHS and/or SOS, you can get them for an extra tenner each by buying the standard or deluxe packs.

So, not bad value really.

 

I like that TSW3. 2 routes with high speed trains. Cajon Pass and the game improvements.

 

Even 8th-gen consoles can run Dolby Atmos as a downloadable plug-in

 

The weather system and Training Centre really should have been in TSW2. Next you’ll be telling us those features can only in implemented with an Unreal engine upgrade!

 

Yes, I was. If you read the whole sentence you quoted, you'll see what I was specifically complaining about.

 

No, it couldn't. To insert the Training Center(re) means restructuring the whole game.

 

enjoy your trucks

 

I said ‘should have’ not could have!

 

Doesn't mean their TV's, soundbars or speaker systems can output it.
My GPU is capable of 4k 60fps, but my monitors are not so not point putting the output at that scale

 

This is a very accurate observation. TSW seems to be aimed at a small but stable DTG fanbase. And apparently this fanbase generates enough revenue to make it worthwhile for DTG to continue the TSW series. They will buy anything DTG releases, even if TSW3 differed from TSW2 only in the picture on the start screen. As Sam said in one of the streams, TSW is not a simulator but a game for collectors. And a true collector will always want a full set on the shelf. It's a bad situation for gamers, but DTG have created for themselves the perfect business niche and a stable customer base with almost zero requirements.

So although I'm definitely more interested in railways than aviation (I'll be honest: I only became interested in aviation because the only decent simulator available on PC was a flight simulator), I spend far more money on flight simulators than on a rail simulator. In fact, in view of what DTG has to offer, I hardly spend money on railway simulators at all. I bought TSW2 at half price and the product turned out to be a shambles. Then I bought two add-ons to TSW2, which I am quite happy with. But that's it. The money that could flow to DTG flows to the manufacturers of flight simulator add-ons. Because railway enthusiast would rather fly virtual planes than drive a twelve-car passenger train without a train guard and collect plush dinosaurs along the way.

 

Why would adding a guard help me drive trains?
OK, I shouldn't be pushing a button that shuts doors, but picking that exact feature seems nonsensical when you could have picked sounds, bugs, lighting (day or night), route choice, save game and so on.

 

I really don’t know what to say about this announcement. I feel like there’s no point in saying anything until it has been released, because the important thing is that DTG delivers the promising experience they seemingly intend to deliver. Something that hasn’t gone too well in the past.

 

It's funny because I took the exact opposite view of this. Based on the responses I have seen so far, the cross-section of people who actively buy TSW products, and those that are currently satisfied with TSW3, is rather small. I rather think that TSW3 is aimed at new players, which in my mind explains the "fancy" new logo, to attract new players. You now have the training center, which of course is especially useful for new players. Why no save game feature? Because, in it's broken state, this might be a turn-off... for new players (existing players having found workarounds).

So, perhaps the situation is that the existing player base just isn't big enough (for DTG), or is too demanding? Maybe both! This also could explain the decoupling of routes and locos, which to my mind is a great idea, and might make it easier to produce routes in other locales, thereby making TSW more marketable.

I don't believe DTG would ever come out and say, we need new players to keep this game going, if that is even the case. But, looking at TSW3 through this lens, I think it explains a lot. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but in any case TSW3 represents a fair value proposition to me, so I plan on buying.

Although, I really might wait until we at least have some more information on when the save game function will, you know, be a thing...

 

You also have to count that there are three or four types of players

1. Those who buy any game just to have it in their collection. They may not ever complete even the first training scenario
2. Those who buy the game, play it once and never pick it up again
3. Those who buy the game, play it for a while, kinda like it but don't want to deal with the bugs
4. Those who play games, or simulators, or can look past the fails and end up with 100s of hours played

Eventually all four of those will somewhen get TSW3, so even if the current crop of "yikes, what have they done?" don't get TSW3, there'll be plenty more that do

 

Yes, and I might also add that, being on Game Pass, DTG would obviously want to find a way to further monetize a game that a casual player might look at because it's "free." So, to do that, you would ideally want a game that presents as friendly, welcoming, easy to pick up/learn, and has lots of DLC that you can spend money on to supplement your "free" game. Just more evidence that TSW3 is maybe not primarily aimed at the "hardcore" gamers on this forum.

 

Yeah, not sure "hardcore" gamers would find TSW adrenaline fuelled enough for them. Certainly not stream friendly for tiktok...

 

Haha, yeah I probably meant people who are really into TSW and post on this forum, but your post made me laugh thinking about someone attempting a Speedrun in TSW. Like, doing a busy run on LBN and timing everything just so perfectly.

 

I wish you were right! Because it would give hope that TSW will one day reach flight simulator-like quality.

Because operating stops is as much a part of driving a passenger train as observing speed and obeying semaphore indications. And the role of the simulator is to reproduce reality as faithfully as possible.

Of course, we can pretend that the train guard is there, locking the doors and ringing the buzzer to ourselves. But then we might as well pretend that our bike is a train and the lamp posts are semaphores. And at the end of the day we don't need TSW or any other simulator, because the perfect train for us would be a block of wood and an alley in a city park as the Brighton Main Line. Just like it would be for a five-year-old child.

And yet, implementing train guard is not such a complicated function that it could cause any problems for professional programmers. It would be enough that when the time to pick up passengers has passed and the departure time is up, the doors would close automatically and the simulator would play a buzzer sound instead of the arcade "blop". Just like in the old Train Simulator. I'm sure it wouldn't cost more than plush dinosaurs to implement such a train guard.

 

Don't we pretend to be driving a train? If I drive from Gillingham to Faversham I don't end up in Faversham (Thankfully... there's nothing there of note)

Ah... I think you forget that in this game you are NOT the train, and you don't have to be a driver. There will be people (not me, but I've been here long enough) who would expect that if there is a guard operating doors and pushing buzzers and presumably monitoring passengers on and off the train they would want this represented (similar to the fireman in SoS). If I remember correctly the fireman won't stop shovelling (causing the safety valve to blow continuously) and then disappears randomly.
What that says about DTGs programmers I will leave up to you

 

I don't think I understand what you mean.

If you're playing a flight simulator and you fly from London to New York you're not physically moving to New York either. But the simulator faithfully replicates for you not only the scenery and weather, but also the physics of the aircraft, and most importantly all the systems and procedures. As a result, even though you are physically sitting in your room somewhere in Kautokeino, you can feel like a real pilot of a passenger jet. So much so that some virtual pilots put on a white shirt and tie for the virtual flight

I would love to experience a similar sensation of realism in TSW!

Playing with flight simulator I've learned what V1, Vr and V2 speed are and what Missed Approach Point is all about. I learned to read METAR messages and SIGMET maps. I can calculate maximum landing weight and program the FMS. I also had the opportunity to practice landing in strong crosswinds, talk to flight controllers and interact with ground crew. Heck, I even experienced a collision with a bird and a single-engine landing!

What does TSW offer me? What will TSW teach me about railways? What skills will it allow me to practise? What will I learn about procedures on the railway? Actually, not much.

 

Oh I agree, almost nothing, but then if I didn't have to close the doors that wouldn't teach me much about procedure either
Unfortunately in TSW just about everything boils down to make the train go, make it stop.
Much of railway procedure relates to when those things go wrong rather than how to make it go right

Comparative to what you said:

The only things I can remember which compare would be the German signalling system (which is speed based) and things like VMAX versus consist max, approach control and TPWS
I know the german systems are in game (how close to reality I don't know as I don't touch DE routes), and TPWS and approach control are coming to SEHS in TSW3 so hopefully that's something
The consist max seems to be hit and miss though. I don't know anywhere that properly simulates the difference between passenger max, freight max, and the difference between freight classes in the UK. The HUD doesn't seem to change either way

 

This is almost certainly the reason the save game function was withdrawn.
But it's counterintuitive. New players will surely be looking for a way to save their progress, since almost all games have such a feature.

 

yet another case of DTG throwing stuff out unfinished and untested it seems

 

Potentially true. However, I would contend that there are large number of players like myself who grow weary with all the complaining and seeing people shocked that they actually have to pay for the game.

I am quite excited about TSW3 and can’t wait to experience the new features and new routes! Maik, Lukas, and Joe combining on a long German high speed route has September 2 circled on my calendar.

It is just hard to spend time on the forums right now because of the overall tone. I suspect I am not alone in this.

 

That’s what us punters are for nowadays unfortunately!

 

I like the forum as a separate entity from the game. Even the people I don't get on with have input and make it "fun" sometimes. Then again my footer is accurate. I am normaly at work when on here so "nothing better to do"

 

TSW3 looks amazing and clearly, a lot of effort has been put into it.
I can believe the vitriol and uninformed pish that has resulted in so many new threads and needless questions, and nitpicking stuff about fonts and spelling.

Please, watch the launch stream, read the roadmap, watch the Youtube roadmap from the 11th



[tweaks by Protagonist to remove unnecessary hostility]

 

How?

 

You do make some good points but if you're going to agitate for a guard then why aren't you berating MS or X-Plane for their missing co-pilot since as I'm sure you know it's mandatory for planes of that size to be flown by two pilots.?

 

I suppose I fall under no.3 in your list. Spent loads on TSW with accessories and I only enjoy UK routes or rather did. But I have no intention of getting TSW3 and think it a bit of a scam tbh. I am not against TSW3, I actually was looking forward to it but at this time, it should of been next year and TSW2 deserved to be fixed imo. Now if they released an editor for TSW2 that would be interesting but then most will concentrate on TSW2 so that won't happen.

I'm no flight sim player but have watched a few online but the immersion between the two games in their own fields is just not fair to make comparison. Some would argue that TSW is not a sim anyway and I would go along with that, it just isn't Authentic enough for me, SOS case in point. Some enjoy it, some bought it and now are fully bored with it.

DTG release routes that are empty and don't seem bothered about releasing Loco's anymore to flush out routes there maybe one or two exceptions but not many. Having guards in TSW would add immersion for the player unless of course you like walking sims and collectables?

 

Well, with Flight Simulator you can in fact hand over various systems to the AI, to the extent you can pretty much choose whether to have a pilot flying or copilot experience. The equivalent would be as with TSC's few routes where you can choose between driver only and guard assisted doors. That's apparently not possible on TSW.

 

You may have the best approach. It’s an emotional rollercoaster having bits of information added slowly and seeing everybody’s initial responses to each one and trying to figure out how you feel yourself and put that into words. I feel like I am either going full on “this is awful” or “why is everyone saying this is awful when it’s actually quite good?” and having early emotional responses to things that may not end up quite so bad in the long run. But then I have plenty of experience of how well DTG launches go and how many disappointing bugs or daft designs there have been in the way the game works and promises not living up to reality and issues persisting for years always there in my head. On the flip side, even with all those things that are currently broken and have been broken in the past, I know how much enjoyment I can still get out of the things that do work while ignoring some of the worst examples of failure. If I wait before saying anything I might not get so wound up about another batch of things that are broken while still getting enjoyment out of any improvements that come along. I just can’t tell right now how this will end up.

 

I feel very much the same way.
When TSW was announced , I was pretty impressed - with the routes, the dynamic weather, lighting improvements, new skybox, rain and snow effects etc.. All looked good on paper. Then the bombshell hit about withdrawing the save game and set me back in my chair.
Then I watched the roadmap stream and I was buoyed up again by what was said. But looking back I realized that the visuals were really not that good . The disastrous BNSF video, the clean platforms in the snowstorm and the cartoonish" snow dust " effect. And, all the while the presenters talking through this stuff like the " Emperors New Clothes ". And I'm asking myself: what will this really look like at launch? A repeat of Rush Hour with stuff missing or done wrong like "Reigate- gate " and that mantra " expect this at launch but it will be fixed in a post-launch patch almost immediately." followed by the endless wait and accompanying silence.
And yet something tells me that I want this new version, because there will be things within it that will be fun and pleasurable, even though I know there will also be frustration and grief.
So, I equivocate. Preorder or not. Can't decide. And my wife asks every day: "Have you ordered it yet?" And I say: "No, I can't make up my mind." She: " It's only $50 for heaven's sake. You spent that much this morning eating breakfast at the IHOP!"
And so it goes.

 

That was definitely an issue with the stream. DTG have posted the video here, and it’s clean

 

Since they now able to animated road traffic to to cross railroad crossing. I would like them to it added to the older routes from tsw 1 and 2.

 

It would only be interesting for me if they avoid the dumpster fire that is the 3rd party scene in TSC with unfinished rubbish routes that require so much other stuff it's unbelievable, or extension after extension after extension for evermore...
At least with TSW you buy a route, it works (for a given value) and you will have the basic assets to run 100 runs without needing to buy more, sub half the assets or have ghost trains

 

Why I only tend to buy TSC stuff off Steam. Mentioned earlier either in this thread or another about a couple of route acquisitions from third party sites. The required DLC was huge, including buying a route I’m probably never likely to play in its own right. Then a massive list of files from teetering UKTS and various other third party sites. Oh and to run the supplied scenarios yet more DLC from various third parties. It could potentially cost £100’s to get a 80 mile route fully kitted out.

So as others have said and despite the sentiment in my signature, I really have to hold back from pushing that pre order button, even though I know all the issues the fact is TSW does provide a nice, neat, packaged and easily accessed train sim experience.

 

I put probably about £1500 into TSC but ended up walking away because of how frustrating it was to have "decent DLC developers" fall into the same issues as DTG do in that they create an A2B route but forget the fringes and the finer points, or the money grabbers who make sure to squeeze you with every additional DLC.

I am yet to buy TSW3, mainly because I already have SEHS and nothing else on the roster holds any interest for me, but no doubt I will get it when it's out, if only for variation in weather so it's not always "bright sunny green light runs"

 

Seriously, stop sticking up for them (DTG) all the time, It's frustrating..

It shouldn't be poor quality, it's as simple as that, you are preparing a sale of a product for current/new users, so it should be right.

 

That's only the case for some third party routes - some are good and keep the required assets down. Plus of course there's freeware stuff. And the fact that the third party stuff isn't replacing the Steam routes that don't require anything to run.

 

The only route I know of that had no issues was Wherry Lines, but it doesn't really go anywhere so that's not really saying much.
All other routes have speed signs missing, incorrect track config, branch lines not signed or signalled...
If you want to do anything other than "go from one end of the route to the other" you're essentially stifled.

 

Please don’t get me started on UKTS. With its 10 kilobit rate limit it would take actual hours to download something.

 

It goes to Acle!

 

That it does, and Berney Arms. Both sterling, interesting places to visit! (I've been to Acle, and past Berney Arms and can't remember much about either LOL)

 

Here is a man who is fully aware of everything DTG brings us and can sum it up in one sentence.

 

I am very happy to pay money for games and add-ons, but I expect quality in return. My extensive collection of flight sumulator add-ons and rather expensive accessories such as flight yoke and throttles prove this statement.

So it's not a problem that I have to pay for a game or add-on. The problem is when we have to pay once again for the same thing, just packaged differently. Or pay for something that is so buggy as to be unplayable. Let's be honest, the changes in TSW3 seem purely cosmetic. They don't fix any of the flaws that players have complained about, nor do they introduce any new major functionality. Just cosmetics. A powdered and repainted TSW2.

Actually Flight Simulator has had an interactive copilot feature for a long time It's either part of the aircraft or a separate mod/add-on. Not to mention the shared cockpit option in some aircraft.

Some add-ons (e.g. FS Passengers) even added interactive cabin crew who gave passengers announcements, meals and even displayed a movie, while on longer flights a stewardess could knock on the cockpit with coffee and say a few words about the weather, passengers or holidays. If you wanted you could also simulate full ground handling, including catering. And also breakdowns and emergencies, where you could set how serious they could be and how often they happened. Etc etc.

Things that are impossible and unprofitable in a train simulator have been possible and profitable in flight simulators for at least two decades. This makes me sad and angry

 

Hi

regarding pre order of standard edition not available because of gamepass, well stalker 2 standard edition before it was delayed have the option to be pre-ordered and it gonna go to gamepass day one so i dont understand what is the thing with microsoft dont want the option to pre-order of the standard edition.

 

DTG have already stated elsewhere in the forum that it's the 4 days early access that is part of the pre order that stops them being able to make the Gamepass Version available for pre order. No idea how the Microsoft Store works myself so I'll have to take their word for it.

 

Livestreams on YouTube stutter and hitch: it's the nature of the beast.

 

The 4 day early access (or as I see it, 4 day late access for those of us who won’t or can’t pre-order), is interesting. Given the number of people, including myself, who have bought base games or DLC on day one in the past, they will have 4 days of feedback from the pre-orderers. If TSW3 is not up to scratch as far as the user base is concerned, many people who would ordinarily buy on release day may hang fire until initial bugs are ironed out.

Have DTG shot themselves in the foot with this one?