Road Map Train Sim World 3 - Roadmap Part 1 10th August 2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Kind of sums up DTG at the moment. Almost as bad as the UK Government…
     
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  2. Fori

    Fori New Member

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    We just need transferred steam achievements please. I can't do again. But I want to :D
     
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  3. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    I just used the save game to complete a SPG run in two separate go's. It worked perfectly fine and I don't think I've ever had a problem with SPG and saving. I know where it doesn't work for me though, and I either don't play those routes or know that I have to complete the service going in.

    The other problem I have is DTG, you're not known for speedy fixes. So "temporarily disabling" could mean a week, a month, a year, or longer. It took what, 6-9 months for you to finally hack fix the Xbox audio problem from when you finally decided to put effort into fixing it - and that was only because Matt got an Xbox and it was bothering him. It's been almost a year and you still haven't fixed the PS5 issue. These are both complex fixes too. So what is supposed to instill confidence in me/us that restoring the save game feature will happen in a timely fashion such that a year from now we're not still wondering where the heck you are on this and whether or not its been swept under the rug.

    But if you're not willing to move on this issue, I just hope one of our brilliant modders will be able to restore the functionality in the mean time...
     
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  4. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I am not from the UK, could someone explain briefly what this signalling is about please?
     
  5. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    A feature for TSW4 perhaps!?!

    <runs>
     
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  6. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Don't apologise, a save feature IS a simple part of well designed software - exporting and importing a systems state is programming 101. This is yet another case of DTG making amateur design decisions for the past 5 years and then making all of you pay for it to be fixed.
     
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  7. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    Whoah , steady on !! :o:cool:
     
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  8. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    tbf we haven't got a 'real' government untill the leadership battle is done, with everything going on it seems to be dragging.
     
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  9. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    That one's my fault. I'd written that section of the article (Matt's a little busy right now) after a conversation with Matt but having misunderstood that AI trains aren't affected by adhesion rules.
     
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  10. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    We haven’t had one for years . I would rather DTG ran the country, that’s how bad I feel this government is :D
     
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  11. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    Extensions are now a thing? Does it mean the route will be consisting of 2 files: one for the old part and another for the extension for it, which can be disabled if you want to play only on the base route (without extension)?
     
  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No. It's just a bigger version of the route.
     
  13. olsbyn

    olsbyn Active Member

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    This won't help TSW customers much; but I am so glad I stuck to TS Classic, that was a choice I made when I saw how bugs were persisting troughout the life of TSW2, at one point a bug where a train car blocked the track on a single track preventing me from finish the scenario was also deemed by the guy in DTG support to be a user error, trying to explain the issue just went into a word twisting contest from DTG.. my point is; I have encountered the same guy when contacting supprt for TS and he was the most polite and helpful support staff member I have talked to in any game ever.. why is this ?
    Could the answer be as simple as DTG doesn't really know what they are doing in TSW ?

    I sincerelly feel sorry for the players on console that doesn't have any choice but to play this mess of a sim if they want to pursue their hobby, hopefully there will be some competition in this genre soon so that DTG is forced to change their policy. Except from DICE who disabled their support some years ago, I haven't seen a company treating their customers so bad, it's outrageous really.
     
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  14. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Sorry, to douse the flames on this one - removed from the Roadmap as it's not actually a feature. A mix up of internal comms.
     
  15. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Timestamped live stream, with exclusive clips (check the timestamps for details):
     
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  16. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  17. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  18. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    Anyway this is not the place for political content
     
  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    However the save game has worked for some users so removing it may not have been a good idea for those who weren't affected. That is not trolling either
     
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  21. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  22. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  23. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  24. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    If NPC train drivers are not affected by weather, in particular adhesion, and you still build timetables based on the times that they put out, wouldn't this make it too hard for the players to then keep up with?

    It was discussed before than in certain weather conditions the player can not drive the train within the projected times due to adhesion effects which re not factored in.

    Have you changed this method or are you planning to?
     
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  25. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    It's a real shame that NPC trains will not be affected by weather... does this mean we'll still be driving through green light central, even in adverse weather conditions that should (in the real world) cause drivers to approach stations at a lower speed?
     
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  26. Kim1087

    Kim1087 Well-Known Member

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    If DTG ran this country every station would be full of collectables to find while you waited for your train and every route would have a donkey :D
     
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  27. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  28. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - going way off topic into political argument]
     
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  29. some1

    some1 New Member

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    The save feature, even if sometimes buggy, saved me from replaying the whole service more than once. I don't want to play a game without it and I certainly won't be buying another Dovetail game on a promise they'll add it later. I know the pace of Dovetail development. Especially on a route-by-route basis.

    If you can't fix it, can you please keep it enabled for those who want to take their chances? If you want to minimize the amount of support tickets, just put a prompt that the save system is temporarily experimental/unreliable/under investigation, yadda yadda,
     
  30. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Guys, the removal of the save feature will make TSW 3 the "Elden ring" of train driving games.

    Just imagine the amount of hair pulled out in frustration after 159 attempts to defeat a red signal boss. Then, once you do it, the joy that comes with it which in return gives you the tears of success and DTG gets Youtube videos with countless views and likes.

    I mean, they are truly visionary if this is the base thought behind the decision. :cool:
     
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  31. afg.buijk

    afg.buijk New Member

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    DTG, I hope the following leads to strong discussion within the company how fixing of bugs SHOULD be prioritized over releasing a new game.

    Several years ago Steam was fined a significant amount of damages due to non complying with the Australian Consumer Law which gives end users certain guaranteed rights when a end product is faulty or misrepresented in features. Whatever you write in your terms is not allowed to contravene these rights, not even when the end user agrees with them. In the case of DTG I refer to the removal of promised features on a roadmap or bugs that receive long term no fix, or later then a new introduced game version.

    In reference to your own end user agreement, the applicable law in Australia expects from you that bugs in games are fixed and actually fixing them in a new version of the game prior to fixing the old version game might be considered unconscionable conduct under the Australian Consumer Law if end users have to pay for the new version. The reason is that you use your advantaged position to disadvantage other parties who depend on you.

    I would like to have a public discussion about this on your forum please rather than a discussion with the ACCC?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
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  32. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    The times I’ve waited on stations for trains that don’t turn up, I would love some collectables to find, just to pass the time. I don’t fancy walking a couple of miles up the track to fix a box though. :)
     
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  33. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm the same although what I wouldn't mind is, once you've collected everything then they randomly need collecting again, for instance, I created an Engineers scenario on NTP where I would plod along on my 37 and sort out the logs along the route, of course, once you've done them all (which I haven't) then that would be it, so it would be good for them to randomly start appearing again so I can plod along in my engineering train to remove them again.
     
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  34. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I think such a feature would work best if there was an option you could press to reset colllectible progress. I wouldn't want to have my progress on that reset without my permission.
     
  35. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's the best way to find such collectibles - and makes a nice change compared with timetable mode - done the same with scenario planner on ECW with a Class 66.
     
  36. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    So over the weekend I was running an early morning deadhead service on East Coastway. I was doing 53 in the 55 mph track limit down the 1% grade towards Lewes. I put the train into break step 1 to begin slowing for the 10mph track restriction. The wheels spun, the train derailed, and I failed the scenario. Was I perplexed? A little. Was I upset? Not at all. Why? Because I reloaded the save I made moments before hitting the breaks. I hit the breaks again, the wheels spun again, I did not derail. I was able to complete the service thanks to a very strategically placed save game which reloaded perfectly.

    Then last night I was finishing a southbound local service on Peninsula corridor. I was in the 40mph zone between Santa Clara and San Jose. This is to say I was abut 25000 ability points and more than 90 minutes into the trip. The game crashed. Was I upset? I should have been very upset. This happens in games from time to time. I get that. Good thing I saved before I stopped in Santa Clara (I had a red light so I saved) . I reloaded my save (which loaded perfectly). The game crash cost me about 5 minutes and was not frustrating at all.

    DTG I saw your roadmap video. Matt described how complex the problem is. I get it. I write software for a living. I was impressed by your confidence you could fix it. I'm glad you assigned your hit team to get on the problem and figure that out. As a customer I'm happy to hear that. However my point is I'd rather buy a game with an imperfect save feature than no save feature. Your imperfect save feature has saved me hours of frustrated game play in the past week alone. I guarantee you had I lost more than 90 minutes and then had no save feature all together I'd be a very angry customer demanding a refund.

    Instead, thanks to your imperfect save feature I'm a very happy customer. Please please PLEASE keep it in TSW3 while your hit squad works out the fix. I really want to buy the TSW3 deluxe edition but will likely hesitate if the save feature isn't there. I don't want to pay to be frustrated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  37. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I heartily agree. DTG - may I introduce you to the concept “The Customer is Always Right”. It seems to have disappeared from modern life and maybe it’s time to re-introduce it.

    Please leave the save function as is until a fix is ready for implementation.
     
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  38. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Well-Known Member

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    I used the save feature a lot on routes where it was easy to spad, such as freight routes that have a stopping point literally 2 yards before the signal, and in rainy conditions on passenger routes. I can't imagine how frustrated I would've been had I needed to restart these services over completely, at the fact I would've simply wasted over an hour of my day/life. As others have said, I wish it would be kept as is until it's resolved. It's not exactly "game breaking", but should never have been broken nonetheless.
     
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  39. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I'm leaning more and more to the already posted speculation that saves are currently broken or at least have a low rate of success. It's probably not something that's looked at until a late stage and DTG may just have run out of time to fix it once they realised there was a problem. Maybe all that mptesting stuff that appeared in Steam was Matt assessing whether saves would be a go or no go item?

    The appearance of TSW3 has already demonstrated that DTG can be economical with the reasoning for certain development activities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    They've had years to fix it, just ignored it for the longest time, despite many, many players asking them to address it.
    That's why withdrawing it is such a betrayal for many of us.
     
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  41. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    The point I'm making is that something in how TSW3 was developed may be what broke/mostly broke saves and that this was discovered at too late a stage to fix the issue(s).
     
  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    No, that's wrong. I could point you to posts raising this issue at least as far back as August, 2020, basically at launch of TSW2, so it has been well-known for pretty much the lifetime of the current game.
     
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  43. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere have I ever said there wasn't an issue with saves before TSW3. :mad: What I am suggesting is that somewhere in the development of TSW3 it became far worse to the point that it was pretty much useless which meant that DTG was forced into doing something about it but ran out of time before the planned release. You seem to have been persistently obtuse about what I was saying and arguing against a point that I never made in the first place. Just read and understand what I'm posting!
     
  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes I guess I did misunderstand your original post. No need to get sniffy, but I apologize anyway.

    I could make the point that, had they fixed it in TSW2, it might well have ported to TSW3 without problems. But as no information is forthcoming from DTG, we don't know the whole story. However, on the latest stream, they did discuss the save game as working in both games 50-75% of the time.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    They were broken in TSW2020 too
     
  46. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I think I would like DTG to acknowledge this. Either admit to us the TSW2 save game function is broken in TSW3 beyond repair or re-instate it. I think people will appreciate the honesty.
     
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  47. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    I have not purchasef Spirit of steam so my question is based only on what I've seen about it.
    Since it will receive all the upgrades of the upcoming game, why do the locomotives only put out white smoke? Isn't this a dynamic element in both volume and color affected by inclines and load?
    I'm weighing the various packages available for TSW 3 and I find this a relevant question for me as it is part of the immersion and realism of the simulation.
     
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  48. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    We had this conversation, it is an extension. I am worried for you and your memory.
     
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  49. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    If and when DTG ever get round to producing a DLC at additional cost that requires another DLC as a dependency and that also enables a continuous and lengthier route I do wonder what you'll call it. A sequel perchance? You're free to call the revamped version of SEHS whatever you want. Personally I'll just call it a reworked and extended version,
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    DTG have changed the vocabulary in midstream: apparently "extension" no longer means what it had always meant before. We're going to have to come up with a new term for old "extension;"- how about modularity?
     

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