Confused With Tsw3 Pricing

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Jamy, Aug 14, 2022.

  1. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    As a player who only plays UK content I'm a little confused as to what my buying options are. Am I correct in thinking that as I already own TSW2 Southeastern highspeed, it would be updated to the TSW3 version irrespective of which buying option I choose
    Option 1: Buy the German/US starter pack (even tho I would barley use) and get Southeastern highspeed free
    Option 2: Buy the UK starter pack, save on HD space and pay £30 for 40 mile extension (75p per mile)
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Essentially yes. If you own SEHS and SoS as I understand it whatever pack you opt for they will both be updated. So even if you’re not interested in Cajon or the German route it makes no sense not to buy one of these as opposed to one of the UK starter packs, as you are at least getting something extra for your money.

    I really don’t know why they don’t have a basic option with just the Training Hub for those who want to buy into TSW3 but not interested in the “pure” new content.
     
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  3. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    The SEHS is an upgrade to the existing route and a major extension to it.
    View it more as an addition route using existing rolling stock.
     
  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Still free if you own the TSW2 version though, so absolutely no point blowing money on something you don’t have to.
     
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  5. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I've been arguing this point. There should be the option of just the training center or an option with just the Ger and US routes
     
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  6. Observadorpt

    Observadorpt Active Member

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    Not free, they announce like it is gonna be free but is not.Just do the maths.

    Standard €45 (have southeaster)
    Deluxe €59.99 Discount lauchprice €54 (includes southeastern and spirit of steam)
    Starter packs €35 all four of them.

    So If they say southeaster and spirit of steam is free for who own them i only see spirit of steam is the one that could be free or at least 1 of them,just see this.

    Deluxe edition is out of the way, contains both of them. Standard southeastern, only spirit of steam is free. Left the starter packs,so see this: 1 starter pack without that 2 routes, german or us routes, you buy 1 of them, missing 1 route german or us depends what you buy, €35 so if you want to buy the other route that starter pack dont have you have to pay more €30 so €35+€30=€65 more than deluxe edition costs (€53) So what is free?

    The one only option is to have 1 starter pack with only german and us routes, only this way that 2 is gonna be free.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Define "scam"...
     
  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the same position. Basically get the cheapest option, or one with something you ARE interested in. Unfortunately DTG have chosen not to do a "£15 for the upgrade only, has zero DLC in it but you get everything you had in TSW2" which would be my preference
     
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  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It turns out that the difference between Deluxe and Standard is only about $4-5. I might do one of those to get early access because that is a holiday weekend in the US ( Labor Day ) and I'll have extra time to play. It's worth a few extra bucks.
     
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  10. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It's the industry standard pricing scheme of "We have options other than the deluxe, but not really"
     
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  11. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Both Deluxe and Standard editions grant early access.

    Cheers
     
  12. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I already have SEHS and not interested in SOS and only want a UK route so the only choice would be the SEHS one but I would rather have what OldVern suggested, an opportunity to buy just the upgrade pack with the Training Centre. I don't know if I'm 'superhuman' or not but I think Ican survive not having it 4 days early, not saying I would buy it but for me at least it would be a much better option.
     
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  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Of course, I'm aware of that. My point was that the difference in price between the two is very minimal, especially if you don't have SOS.
     
  14. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    My apologies, I misread your post.

    Cheers
     
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If you buy any bundle you will get SEHS updated, you are correct about that.

    With any option you do get the new core game and the training centre route so you can’t really just count it as the cost per mile of the other normal route or routes included in the bundle. If I was in your position I would choose the Spirit of Steam starter edition. Even if you aren’t interested in the steam locos you will get a new route to drive other UK trains on.

    I would suspect that all routes now are DLC and can be deleted if you don’t want to keep them with only the training route being in the core game. That’s the impression I get but if you are in any doubt you could ask on the Q&A thread for clarification. They are described as bundles now. If that is the case you could buy the German or US starter pack instead of the Spirit of Steam pack and give the other routes a go. Any of those packs still get you the new SEHS as a free upgrade and you get to at least try something new without forever taking up disk space.

    The offered bundles don’t offer a suitable bargain for everyone especially those with all the Uk content and the lack of a preorder discount on the standard pack is a bit mean but that doesn’t affect you if you don’t really want the other country’s routes.
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that the pricing for TSW3 is a little unbalanced.

    From the POV of a SEHS owner & non-SoS Owner:

    Deluxe Edition: 3.5 new routes
    Standard Edition: 2.5 new routes
    Starter (US): 1.5 new routes
    Starter (DE): 1.5 new routes
    Starter (SoS): 1.5 new routes
    Starter (UK): 0.5 new routes

    I think this issue would have been fixed by there being a slight discount for SEHS owners if they buy the Starter (UK) edition.
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    How is it free if you to pay to get it? Makes no sense at all
     
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  18. Celendis

    Celendis Member

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    I feel there are unconsidered options that are too readily overlooked: Wait until there is more compelling content that is bundled to get the TSW3 base game, wait until a single-route TSW3 bundle goes on sale for less than £30, or wait and see if they sell TSW3 stand-alone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Fair comment. Not free per se as you have to buy something to get TSW3. My point is if you already own SEHS and/or SoS you might as well buy the Cajon or German pack as at least then you do get something else, don’t just buy one of the UK starter packs.
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I DON'T have Sos as not interested in driving steam, so that's my bet even if it essentially gives me steam railtours to pass by
    Not interested in DE or US and they'd sit there taking up disk space.
    I'm hoping to be able to uninstall the US/DE routes that came with TSW2 because I've literally never looked at them
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Horses for courses! Apart from the lighting and having to spend so much time driving from cab cars, I actually enjoy the German routes. Well we could do with a bit more variety and something iconic like Rhine Valley or one of the other classics from TSC/MSTS but it’s kind of like going on holiday from the comfort of your own home. If I do fold and make a purchase more than likely it will be the German starter pack. Cajon interests me too but I see zero point in even looking at it until/if the save game is restored or fixed.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I basically can't be bothered to learn the signalling and safety systems... lazy I know
     
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  23. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Deleted message.
     
  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Matt your attachment appears as HTML code.
     
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  25. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm only interested in German content
    So what should I buy?
    What will I get buying the German edition?
    I have no British routes Just bakerloo
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
  26. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    The Ashford extension is new to TSW2 with different timetables etc..
    Only the rolling stock is shared.
    Looking forward to it as German high speed does nothing for me.
     
  27. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I'll try again :o

    I've tried to summarise the cost per route of each TSW3 edition. The exact cost per route depends on which edition you buy and what routes you already own. Obvously the best value is if you're a new user and the worst value us if you're UK only user who already owns SEHS and SoS.

    Note: I've classed the SEHS extension as half a route if you already own it, but I've not done the same with SoS as it's just an upgrade and the track is the same size. Your milage may also vary depending if you own the 465 or not as I've not included it in the calculations. I've also not included Training Centre as a route or taken account the value of the TSW3 new features such as Dynamic Weather, Lighting etc.

    Hope it makes sense.

    20220815_091232.jpg

    Edited to clarify that the values are not the price you will pay but the relative cost per route inluded in each edition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  28. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It makes no sense whatsoever. There is something wrong going on with your maths if you end up with £60 per route on any bundle.
     
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  29. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you won't actually pay £60, but my thinking was with the starter UK edition you only for half a route = £29.99/0.5 = £59.98 per whole route. Some won't see it this way but some will.
     
  30. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum Active Member

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    I have absolutely no idea what's going on with gaming these days. I come from the C64 era so things were quite simple, buy a game and you've got it all.

    I cannot even began to understand what DTG are thinking anymore or what I'm supposed to go for, (I use UK routes only, I have SoS and Sehs). It must have taken them several meetings with masses of paper and flow charts to work out the pricing on this.

    Why not just average the cost out, and sell as one whole package. Done.
     
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  31. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    It really is a tough sell for people who only want UK content and already own SEHS & SoS...there really isn't any good bundle to buy. The Starter UK bundle is literally the worst value of the UK/US/DE starter packs owing to the fact that it is only 1/2 a new route and priced the same as the other two which have 1 each....it essentially is aimed at a new player to the franchise

    Your choices are either bite the bullet and get the Standard Edtn (and 2 routes you don't want) or one of DE or US starter packs and get 1 you don't want.
     
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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Ah right I understand what you did now. Still wrong though :D

    You could go mad and add the cost of the 465 and come up with the total cost that SEHS plus the TSW3 package has cost players over time, which would be even higher, but it’s still wrong to put a figure higher than what you pay for the upgrade in that table because what you spent earlier doesn’t come into what you are spending now and the update really isn’t half a route and you get the core and training centre. It is just a wrong way of looking at it and adds to the confusion.
     
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  33. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'm not really interested in the new DE/US routes and not fussed about steam, but like you say, having the occasional steam train pass you by might add a bit of novelty to other UK routes, so I'd probably opt for the SoS pack. It won't be happening any time soon, though - I'm sure sale discounts won't be far away.
     
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  34. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    That's not quite what I've done as I've not included the cost of the TSW2 SEHS cost, I agree this would be unfair, especially as many mayl have bought it in a sale.

    My maths is, if you already own SEHS, and by the UK starter pack of TSW3 then you pay 29.99 and get approximately half route (more if you don't already own the 465). Fair?

    To scale this up to get the full price per route you have to double it.

    I'm not trying to confuse people or be unfair to DTG and clearly everyone will see value differently depending on what part of the game they play most and what content they already own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Overly simplistic. Doesn't count the relay of the track & OHLE, inclusion of TPWS etc etc
    It's not just an extension but a buff and extension. ie there's not going to be a simple way of monetizing it
     
  36. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it doesn't, you might be right. LIke I said, everyone will see the value differently and until we see the route showcased I suppose we can't be certain what percentage of the route is new.
     
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You just can’t do that. It is not a legitimate way of showing the cost of it.

    It’s like when a group of four criminals get locked away in prison for twenty years each and the newsreader says four criminals were locked up today for a total of eighty years. It’s bad maths and bad representation of what’s happening. Each of those twenty year terms happens at the same time so the total is actually just twenty years. When twenty years has passed, all the criminals get out of jail. The only way it could be 80 years is if one goes to jail and when they get out the next one goes in and so on. News media do bad maths all the time and you have done the same in your table.

    You can’t just double the cost to get a bigger number because you think it is half a route based on previous ownership of the original version. There is no half a route. It’s a made up concept of half a route based on perception not fact.

    However much you think £60 is a legitimate way to show your perceived value of the extension because you are calling it half a route, it is wrong to give it to others as an example of the cost, especially in a thread about confusion over the actual prices needed to be paid.
     
  38. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    i'm crap at maths, but i do agree with the half route thing, if you buy the German DLC with tsw3, you get a brand new route never before seen on this platform,

    if you buy the english DLC, you get a slightly re-worked version of a route that already exists and you probably already own, with an extension to it, of which about half is in tunnels... i know that's how it is in real life... but i can't help thinking routes with lots of tunnel sections were chosen as a way to avoid lots of scenery that's always in view, and tunnel sections can just be repeated over and over.
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is innaccurate
    About half the length between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet may be in tunnels, but there are only two other "main tunnels" between Ebbsfleet and Ashford (Bluebell Hill being one of them), and none between Gillingham and Faversham
    Very little between Gravesend and Dartford is tunnel either (just before Greenhithe I believe)
     
  40. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    How much of a new route it is and how much each player will value it is certainly up for discussion and perhaps can't be answered until it's released.

    Even DGT are not touting it as a new route though so it's not 100% new. Given this the cost per route must be higher than £29.99 if you buy the UK starter route and already own SEHS.

    If you buy the US starter pack to instance, and already own SEHS you are getter more than one route so this must better value right (if you like US routes of course)? The table is just tring to highlight this difference and not confuse or deceive anyone.

    As DTG have said, players should buy the route that is right for them and chose carefully. Ironically I created the table to try and help with this!
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
  41. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’m in the same boat. I have both SOS and SEHS for TSW however I have no interest in SOS or the other routes for TSW 3.

    All I want is TSW 3 + SEHS but the option for that does not exist.
     
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  42. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I understand you are only trying to help because the choices aren’t particularly great value unless you don’t own SEHS or SoS already and/or you get the Deluxe version. That’s the biggest value for money package but many people think the whole thing is a little overpriced. It may make sense if we later find out that the standard DLC price is going up to £30 which wouldn’t surprise me to be honest :|
     
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    No... even then it doesn't unless you want content outside of the UK and or don't own SoS / SEHS
    The problem here is that they have made it unequal depending on where you live, and would have been simplified had they done a "third route which was British" and then had the upgraded SEHS as a separate route or upgrade somewhere down the line (though I guess that would be hard as you'd then have 2 TSW3 SEHS versions floating around, similar to the South Wales "issue" on TSC)
     
  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Tell me about it!
    The German route is of slightly more interest than Cajon, if only because there's more chance of runs and scenarios that can be completed without saving. However it's not really worth £30 - now if it had been something like the Rhine Valley or the Obereruhrtalbahn, set back in the 1970's or 80's then I might show a bit more enthusiasm.
    I just hope they see sense and drop in a last minute deal for the core plus Training Hub, which then brings in SEHS and SoS if you already got 'em in "2". £14.99 would be the sweet spot for that, or okay maybe £19.99.
     
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  45. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I think we will see a DLC prices increase and TSW3 will be be the line in the sand to justify a new price given the longer length, better lighting, volumetric clouds etc.

    Personally I'd be happy with a £30 price, as long as DTG keep their intention of having a policy of a standard set of features included in each route, that grows as new features are built (I'm looking at you distance counter on American freight locos!)
     
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  46. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    What I mean about it making sense if the DLC is now more expensive is about all the bundles being overpriced not the imbalance between them.

    But the issues of the imbalance are there now. It was just a bad choice of route as you say as surely every fan of UK trains that plays TSW2 already has SEHS. They have caused this imbalance without even knowing that was what they were doing. Making a new route would have made more sense for us and avoided this but DTG have made their choice now and there’s nothing that can be done about it. The standard bundle should have a pre-order discount but other than that I can’t really see what else DTG can do now.
     
  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Now if they'd agreed with Rivet to overhaul, extend and improve WCL (by taking it up to Par or beyond and throwing in the Falmouth branch plus sorting the 150) then that definitely might have been worth a punt. Or for that matter any of the existing classic UK routes - TVL to Boulby and/or Bishop Auckland, NTP to York or Liverpool, even GWE to Oxford with or without branches. All of those would I think have brought a more favourable reaction than SEHS.
     
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  48. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    No matter what route they made someone would be posting it's wrong, not enough length, no new stock, wrong timetables, what about bloom, ambient noise etc..
    I get that speculation is fun, but if you're really concerned wait until release and read the reviews.

    For me it's a good route, worth the money and I'm looking forward to it.
    Quibbling over a few quid either way is a sad state to be in...
    There's always a sale.
     
  49. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I'm leaning to waiting for the sales. I just can't justify it in my head paying the same price for SEHS and getting 50% of a German/US route.
    To be honest TSW3 sounds like there putting lipstick on a pig and it speaks volumes for DTG that they haven't bothered to put the more important things right that the community have been crying out for. (save game, names on 2D map ect.)
    I've rediscovered my love for TSC having fun creating scenarios and Just Trains will be releasing Hope Valley line soon which will keep me going for a while
     
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  50. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

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    This I have to agree with because if you've got no interest in any of the new routes but want to purchase something for TSW3 in the future then (assuming DLC's stay at the current £24.99 price) you're going to have to fork out an minimum of £54 in order to play it. Sorry but in today's day and age, expecting people to pay £54 to play a single route is complete and utter madness!

    Yes, I know that TSW2 had three compulsory routes...but at a mere £8.33 a pop, even if the Bridlington Land-train was in amongst those starter routes you still couldn't question it's value for money.

    Honestly though, there's absolutely no reason why the core game couldn't just as easily be 100% free (with no routes whatsoever included) and users given a choice as to what they want to add into it. That way those who already own content are rewarded for their continued support and new users aren't being pushed into purchasing something they might not necessarily want.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022

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