How Do Dtg Restore Trust With Community?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Aug 15, 2022.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Reading through the forums since the announce, the open letters etc there’s a lot of concerns being thrown at DTG. People appear concerned by what’s going to be fulfilled and when, pricing and what’s going to be different.

    Constructively, to you, a singular player of this franchise, if DTG have lost your faith, what step do they need to take for you to trust them again?
     
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  2. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Display a serious commitment to bugfixing and not lock some of the few bugfixes we do get behind paid upgrades.

    Not releasing plainly rushed products would be good too. It's clear there are a lot of passionate people working on the game; it seems they just aren't given the time they need by management.
     
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  3. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Agree.
    Bug fixes in the past have been so slow to emerge that it has cost DTG a lot of support and much irritation on these forums.

    Adam's team was a great idea but the painful roll out of patches made it look like a publicity scam.
    They and we deserved better than that.
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    This is where I am personally at too. I love what they do, I love what the bring to the table but when we're still waiting for preserved updates promised to TSW2 which are now queued up behind TSW3 and whatever hiccups that may ship with the team will be saying

    Fix bug A on tsw3 or release preserved updates for tsw2. You know what will take priority.


    I moan, however I sincerely hope there is something fundamental changed in the games make up which allow patches to move quicker without crashing the matrix like they do now.
     
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  5. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think they've been trying to be as open as possible, and given that game dev is most definitely not a straight line, I'm extremely sure that what's transpiring is not what the team planned - but they're having to improvise a bit and make the best of a difficult situation.

    I actually think they've been pretty much as transparent about general plans as possible, and their continued work on the roadmaps - and how they've changed structurally over the past year or so - is them trying to align this openness with expectation management. Honestly, I think they are trying very hard to be upfront about what to expect.

    So for me it's not about trust in the sense that they're not trying to be honest; I think it's more about trust in the ability to deliver. It's very unfortunate that after what felt like a triumphant Spirit of Steam release (yes, not without issues, but overall a great new addition to TSW), this short-notice, confusing and disparate announcement has left me with a lot of uncertainties - and I think what I'm unclear on the most is: What is the vision?

    For example, the point about progress crossing over - from other threads there's clearly a mix of views on this, and some don't care, others do. But where does this sit in the Vision for the TSW franchise? Right now it's "we don't know, we'll let you know" - but it's either an important element of building TSWs over time, or it's not. And... if "progression" as a theme isn't important for DTG, why 'tick off' services as you complete them? Mixed messages.

    Same with save games - are they an important part of the vision or not, and do they play a role in the ambition for longer routes, etc? They want to get it back, but they're not sure if/when, etc etc. Mixed messages.

    And support for TSW2 - is the vision about moving everybody onto new versions, or is it about supporting the 'family' of products? Back in the original TSW days my impression of the vision was that it was similar to TSC - a single base game that would update over time, and that all DLC would be as good on the new versions as on the old. This definitely won't be the case, since all previous DLC to-date would need new lighting etc to bring it on par with future DLC; so of course, I can still play it on TSW3 (there would be riots if you couldn't...) - but the library is diminished by comparison (new and... literally... shiny, or old and dull). Mixed messages.

    So I think trust in the vision is the issue for me. I don't really know/understand what the key pillars for TSW are going forwards, and this brings uncertainty. This is no kind of threat, but genuinely I will think twice about buying DLC in the future, because I will have in the back of my mind a small question about support for the future and how much I really now want to build a 'library' etc.
     
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  6. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Well, another cause for the lack of trust is that they keep claiming this is still the case when it obviously isn't...
     
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  7. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    If I have not yet tried the product they have worked on, how can I lose trust?
    What I have seen so far I like, so I want to get my hands on it to test it thoroughly and make a value judgement.

    What I can tell you is that, in my opinion, I don't like the change of number in the title of the game because I find it hardly justifiable. With no changes in depth or graphics engine as TSW 2 did, it seems more like a facelift and a marketing strategy to re-sell us a game that could well have been the 2.0 update of TSW 2.
    We have examples of other games that have developed a lot in relation to their first version without changing their number (NMS and ETS2 to name a few) and we also have others that sell us a new game every year with minimal changes (F1, FIFA).
    Each company has its own strategy and it doesn't have to be better one than the other. DTG has chosen this one and that's the way it's going to be, whether we like it or not. On a humorous note, they have already subtly prepared us for everything related to their game with this ad in Bakerloo Line:
    de04591d-8453-47e6-925e-163e8d4785cc.jpeg
    [​IMG]
    I always try to see the glass half full, so including two new routes + an extension of another + the training centre, which is like another little route + all the new features, all for 45€, I can't feel cheated in any way. I'm happy to pay that price and DTG is funded, it's a win win for me.

    But I also say that if after meticulously testing it I see that they have done a mediocre job I will be the first one to expose my criticisms.
     
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  8. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Stop being so, well, DTG about everything.
     
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  9. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Bugs absolutely have to be a top priority, especially with new content in TSW 3 so they don’t get out of hand like they did in TSW 2.

    Fewer, higher quality DLC from day one should be the next priority. Taking extra time at the beginning to get things right first time e.g. train functionality, AI, signalling etc.

    There is no doubt the quality of TSW 2 declined significantly. I like what I’ve heard so far about DTG trying to make amends e.g. refocusing Adam’s team to promptly fix early issues reported by players, introducing the Xbox Beta team and bringing a new head of QA into the business. However, actions always speak louder than words and they need to demonstrate this commitment flawlessly going forward.
     
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  10. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    You should be used to it by now, this must be roughly the 10th time we’ve had this spiel since CSX:HH was first released.
     
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  11. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for me it’s fixing things without needing to purchase a new product.

    The bundles have been getting a lot of talk so I won’t repeat a huge rant, but DTG absolutely should of provided a way to just upgrade to the new core, with the training centre.
     
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  12. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    It is not correct to say that society has lost confidence in DTG and it must be returned!
    The team demonstrates progress, improves its product. I look forward with optimism and wish the team creative success.

    No one made statements that the DLCs we purchased lose technical support. Part of the DLC will receive bug fixes, and some may receive all new features in the future. There is no need to dramatize the situation with the release of TSW3.

    After all, nothing would have changed if, instead of a new game, an improvement in the TSW2 core had been announced, the result would have been the same. And all existing problems were solved in the same order.
     
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  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I've been out of the loop for a while for exactly these reasons. I was interested in the Harlem route, but had no intention of buying it without a hefty discount and straight away people were reporting more bugs and issues so I haven't even considered spending the cash. Since the avalanche of problems that came with the RH rollout and subsequent red lights and abandoned trains, I've gradually lost interest because of potential issues which could ruin a run after an hour of play.

    I posted in November last year that TSW2 could be my 19th Platinum with a few thousand miles left to cover. I'm now up to 23 platinums and none of them are for TSW!

    Now that TSW3 has been announced, I'm hoping that they come good and make a product which isn't riddled with problems. It will be unforgivable to charge for the update with a few new features and have the same issues persist. If they've finally come good with a properly tested product, well, maybe some faith will be restored...

    I'll maybe give TSW2 another bash and try to get that trophy before seeing what the reception to TSW3 is like. Maybe if it gets glowing reviews, I'll pick up a bundle in a sale down the line. I'm certainly in no rush.

    On a side note, I suspect they've set themselves up for some pain by referring to the SEHS route as an extension - it's a replacement in a new game which neatly sidesteps all of the potential progress/completion/timetable issues of extending an existing route in TSW2, but people are now going to think that extensions are a thing and the forums will be full of posts requesting similar. Hopefully we won't have to buy a whole new game every time they want to extend a route.

    I have absolutely lost confidence in DTG. I'm fully expecting a raft of new bugs and problems when TSW3 lands - the ball's in their court to prove me wrong.
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It is hard to totally trust DTG with their past track record...
    TSC in particular the editor now largely in hiatus so far as significant updates are concerned.
    FSX adopted but only to put a Steam jacket on it, no fixes or improvements.
    FSW announced to a big fanfare then dropped like a stone when the early access money was banked.
    Now TSW where we were openly told there was a hiatus to fix up the game which in reality was to finalise TSW3 for which they are charging a princely sum of money.
    I certainly don't trust them to do as they promised with the save game.

    Happy to be proved wrong.
     
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  15. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Well for starters, we wouldn't have had to pay for the upgrade...
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  16. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    We just want TSW to be like TSC: free core upgrade, pay for DLC. That way the game stays interesting for more people.
     
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  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    We who?

    I'm happy paying if it bring new features consistently. I'd hate to think people weren't rewarded for their efforts but then im older than some players.
     
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  18. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Almost everything you list there are features that exist in the UE4 engine. DTG have simply enabled them, and as far as the clouds go then ‘optimised’ them to work on technology older than a 10 year old child. You can no longer purchase content for TSW unless you purchase TSW3 which isn’t fair.

    If they have to charge (which they don’t) for the core upgrade, you should be able to pay for just that. Many people don’t want to be pushed into paying for content they have no intent on ever using.
     
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  19. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Churning out high quality DLC is what I think they need to do going forward. Making sure there aren't many bugs to fix so they don't have to spend time and money fixing things released months or years ago
     
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  20. The main thing that bothers me about dtg is their communication.

    All to often I see threads where dtg will respond to several questions then completely ignore others! For example answer questions about new routes and features and blank the questions about bugs and fixes for older routes!

    Rather than ignore the question why not just say it how it is?

    For example....

    Answer A: we have no intention on fixing that

    Or B: we have no idea what's happening about it, I'll see if I can get some more information for you.

    Or in the case of the fixes we should be working on but aren't working on because we are developing tsw3... we can't comment on that right now but will give you a answer shortly.

    Sometimes I feel I'm talking to my ex wife!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2022
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  21. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how long DTG are prepared to use the TSWX naming iteration, they've only just dropped the TS20XX name after a decade, and that was a free upgrade. I rather we didn't end up with something like TSW8 in 10 years time, with separate games for each.

    Whether or not a separate game is really necessary, I rather DTG kept it straightforward and release community-wanted DLC as when ready with free core upgrades in between (as a natural evolution of the game). Then again this change is probably all for marketing to help keep the game new and appealing (they need to pay their employees wages somehow).
     
  22. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Having tried several times to get into TSC, I can say full throated and with every fibre of my being, I do not want TSW to be anything like that stale, ugly, and outdated game. I would absolutely hate TSW to get stuck the way TSC has in a kind of horrible timewarp where it doesn't move, and I am more than happy to pay DTG for TSW to move forwards, because lord knows whilst there are many here who love looking back at TSW2020 as some sort of golden age, the clunky controls and square clouds were not fond memories for me, let alone looking back to the mid-00s graphics of TSC. But to this point generally, if you already have TSC doing what you want, why do you need TSW to do it too? There's surely a choice there, one which you basically answered as to what your preference is with this statement.

    As to the broader point of this thread:

    For general quality issues, DTG give very little reason for anyone to expect that things will get better than they are now, this is why it is odd to see people expecting a difference with TSW3. I can certainly believe DTG and players want TSW3 to be better than 2, that DTG have tried to make that happen, but there's no obvious reason to expect that to be the case given it was exactly the same with TSW2, which all those complaining seem to regard as a failure (it has never tipped from anything other than my fav and most played game so on that I disagree).

    I make my purchase decisions on experience, which is that TSW3 will likely, and almost certainly on playstation, launch with all the grace of a baby giraffe being born, and maybe within a week actually playing the game will be possible without a 3 step workaround via recorded message on a cassette, and I'll start my journey on the new DLC knowing full well I will probably run into bugs that even a not-exactly-expert-at-German-signalling like me can figure out are bugs rather than my own poor driving. I can live with that mostly because I expect it before purchase, so it is not a surprise, and because experience tells me that the people who get most frustrated are usually those who use journey mode as their way through the title, which means they usually all hit the same issue at the same time, and then go to the forums to all complain at the same time after a route has launched. What works for me is simply picking timetable or scenarios at random, and it seems there is a lower chance of finding bugs, or at least finding a bug at exactly the same time everyone else does, and then entering a sort of forum spiral of doom as to the general state of the game. Put simply: I cannot change DTG, but I can keep my own expectations and behaviour in line so I don't get particularly bothered that DTG seem unable to avoid disastrous launches and 7 pages worth of bug reports within a week.

    Regarding pricing, there really isn't anything DTG can do on that score that would erase the complaints. People spent the best part of the past year complaining about what was a free core update, so do I think lower pricing actually helps temper expectations or make people less angry? Not one bit.
     
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  23. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I never said it did.
     
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  24. ffabio89

    ffabio89 Active Member

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    I'm happy to pay for a new game but only if it have new function and a constant bug correction.
    If DTG keep a constant high quality for their DLC from now to any new updates/game, I'll be grateful to them.
    But if we have some DLC very good made and some DLC with a lot of bug and poor quality, they only confirm their path and this isn't the right way to build the better future for TSW.
    And the bug support/correction, with the old DLC update, i think is a part of this, when this one have a lot o f problems from its start...

    For now, see what they do and hope communication and customers care still always at the first place in their mind!
     
  25. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    You would have to pay for new routes if you are interested in them! This release is no different from the previous ones!
     
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  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    DTG need to do 2 things:

    1. Reinstate the save game function and keep their promise to form a hit team to fix it promptly.

    2. Release all the bug fixes promised for TSW2 in TSW2. And bring in the Preservation Team improvements to routes like BML, PC and Oakland etc., including Rush Hour passengers where promised.

    3. Bring in the kind of industry standard lighting and internal and external audio that have been missing since the beginning of TSW.

    ( I know that's 3 things, but, then, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ).
     
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  27. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    I find i can do a lot more in TSC than i can in TSW,
    There are various options to make it look as good as some TSW stuff ... thanks to add ons made by 3rd parties (railworks enhancer) but at least these add ons exist, anyone is free to make one, or make a route or train if they want.

    you can buy trains for TSC that have way more features than the TSW ones do... for German trains look at the Expert Line trains from Virtual Railroads,
    There are steam trains that are way more advanced than anything in TSW, and they've been available for years.

    You can also control the trains in TSC more realistically, not just with a raildriver, but thanks to the API and ability to run LUA scripts, you can build / buy a controller that mimics the one in the cab of the train, and thanks to the free joystick interface, you can have it operate the controls realistically (TSW you can't even reverse the raildriver levers, so are stuck with them working backwards on non american trains)

    You can also use other add-ons and have a working EBuLa and the MFA screens displayed on 2nd monitors on android tablets,

    With this you can get way more immersed in train driving in TSC than i ever have been able to in TSW,


    TSC's core hasn't been updated much, yet the content made for it is still advancing, because of the free access to the editor and tools, people have pushed the boundries and made things happen that were never thought possible,

    this is where i think TSW will always struggle, whilst it's all locked down and to release anything you have to meet only DTG's requirements, things are going to progress slowly.

    But look at what modders managed to do with TSW, almost everything offered as 'new and exciting' in TSW3 has already been done in TSW2.
     
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  28. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    No, massive difference. I have to buy this release for the opportunity to buy new routes, and for bug fixes for content that has already been released.
     
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  29. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    i wonder if TSW will go like TSC can be at times....

    you want to buy a new route DLC... but with it comes a long list of trains you also need to buy separately to make it work to it's full potential?

    turning a ~£20 route DLC into a ~£100 one once you've bought all the other bits to make it work.
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Admittedly some of the older routes are showing their age, but it will probably be a cold day in Hell before we can drive a Class 86 or 87 from Preston to Carlisle or Carlisle to Glasgow in TSW, or thrash a Class 37 down to the Kyle. Likewise if you're into steam traction there's a plethora of great add ons from the likes of Bossman, Victory or Caledonia plus loads of period coaching stock too. There's also far more variety in the German stuff plus the advantage if you find the prospect of spending 90 mins driving from a Dopplestock cab car unappealing, you can clone the scenario and change the consist to one you prefer.

    The downside is no timetable mode and some routes (like the North Glasgow one) come with a pitiful number of scenarios. However with no save mode forthcoming in TSW3, the all day timetable seems pointless if you can't save and (hopefully) continue your driving shift across an 8 hour period.
     
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  31. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    the timetable mode thing is the only thing keeping me on TSW.

    i know there have been attempts by people to make TSC work on a kind of timetable basis, using the free drive or something, where it auto populates the route with a lot of AI traffic, and gives you a service to run.
     
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You can actually drive a class 86/87/90 etc from Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh thanks to the ability to merge routes and with the project on the ATS site you will soon be able to drive from Euston to Preston and I think into Liverpool, I can't recall if Manchester is yet connected. You can also drive from Kings Cross to Leeds, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

    If TSW had a much more substantial scenario planner than it does, plus to be frank, was another five/ten years or so down the line in terms of content then I would possibly at a point where I would consider letting go of TSC. I think TSW is fine if you just want to drive trains.

    If I played a lot more PC games I would be happy to stick with TSW but TSC/TSW is pretty much all I play except Football Manager on occassions.
     
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I've given up on "trust" regarding DTG products and their support. If a route or train has any bugs or issues, you can count on those issues remaining for at least a year if not more, IF they even get fixed at all. So I am no longer buying any half-finished TSW product. I check it out, if it looks good based on videos and reviews then I get it, but I will never again buy any add-on knowing it has flaws and expecting it to get fixed later on.

    With this mindset I am really happy I didn't buy Rivet's '38 stock, as the sounds on that are still horrible. Would've been a waste of money buying it and waiting for better sounds.
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't even think DTG know what trust even means
     
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  35. Celendis

    Celendis Member

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    My trust level of DTG boils down to this: I have chosen to accept that DTG seems to try to put out the best product they can, but ultimately cannot live up to that goal for whatever reason, be it limited time, limited budget, limited testing, or whatever. At this point, it does not matter to me why they cannot deliver on their efforts. This may sound like I am down on their development team, but I am actually not. They do what they do, and that is what they deliver. I cannot say I am disappointed because, I am not. They lived up to my expectations.

    This also goes for their communication, or lack thereof; I expect that they are unwilling to commit to communication because they do not want to put themselves out to 'needless' criticism and personal attacks because they could not deliver on something they wanted to (see above).

    Does this mean I don't pay for their new content? No, I purchase routes that I find interesting when the value proposition works for me and have even pre-purchased TSW3 because my personal value threshold was met with that. But I have also decided it is not worth getting upset over things that simply won't or cannot change, no matter how much we, or DTG may want better.

    So, do I trust DTG? Yes. I trust DTG to be DTG. I would like to be surprised if they exceed my expectations, but I won't be disappointed.
     
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  36. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have trust issues with DTG.

    I think they are as transparent as they can be with a business (remember they have a duty to their employees and shareholders as well as their customers).

    Is TSW (in all its varieties) perfect? Of course not!

    The save game bug is a shambles and should have been sorted out ages ago. Same with the PS5 add-ons issue.

    I'm happy to see them addressing longstanding issues with lighting and audio, while adding some new features, and ways to play like the training center (which, crucially, paves the way for decoupling rolling stock from routes, which will pay dividends in the future)

    From my perpective, there are a LOT of legacy issues in TSW- as long as i'm seeing progress on addressing them, I'm feeling ok about it. I don't think it's realistic to expect every issue to be fixed at once.

    I'm preordering TSW3 and am looking forward to it.
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Quality is Job One. That boils it all down into a slogan.

    Stop releasing manifestly undercooked routes, taken out of the oven before they're done. What that means, in practice, is increasing the time and resource budgets for DLCs (including, to I'm sure Paul's EA-trained horror, letting a release date slip if the DLC isn't actually ready). Especially with new routes breaking the 85-mile barrier, which will require more time if they are to be developed in acceptable detail (no more Reigates!) And above all a revamped and more extensive bug-testing regime, at both the QA and beta level, so that when a DLC is released (for players' hard-earned cash money, remember), it should not contain any A-class bugs at all, period. No more F7 brake setup fiascos, no more AI-spad game overs, no more 72 Stock mystery shutdowns, no more Cement Circle bungles, no more too-dark-to-drive-at-night routes like Cathcart and Clinchfield, and especially no more dispatcher-red light tangles which render a service uncompleteable. Oh, and a Week One patch should be planned and budgeted for; and a route's development team should be kept on standby in the post-release period for precisely that purpose.

    In other words- stop releasing unfinished DLC. They shouldn't go live until they've had three coats of varnish, fully dried and polished. And if that means cutting back from six routes per year, so be it. I suspect five quality routes will bring in more revenue than six slipshod ones.
     
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  38. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    exactly.... quality over quantity.
     
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  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps one of the biggest things DTG need to work on, as well as have always struggled with:

    Be honest and open about what you are doing and working on.

    We were told a few months back that development would be paused on TSW 2 to improve and fix the several bugs which the game currently has, however we found out that was a big fat lie upon the announcement of TSW 3.

    Now it has changed to 'TSW 3 will get priority and we may fix the bugs in TSW 2, if we have time' or something along those lines.

    I honestly can't trust a word DTG has said and I wouldn't be surprised if all the amazing and fancy things TSW 3 is supposed to offer is nothing more than a marketing PR exercise.
     
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  40. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Well on top of that, the point is that this is now 2nd time around.

    First time they said yes sorry we'd ideally not have to do this but don't have a choice, now this time around the same thing. Fool me first time, but not second. Each time it is a little more obvious that this hasn't been arrived at by chance, but it actually the strategy. Constantly creating gates of content that you have to pass through to continue adding future items to your collection.
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ironically it seems like they had a choice considering the engine remained the same but decided to squeeze as much money out of customers as possible.

    If DTG really want to restore trust, then they can't lie about what they are working on. Saying that they were pausing development to work on patches and the remaining preservation crew routes only for this to come out basically means they lied to an extent.

    They also need to stop being so inconsistent with the quality of their products and get things right the first time. I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of tsw 3 content started good, but then became inconsistent like what happened with tsw 2.

    Bug fixes shouldn't take two years to complete. The LIRR m7 propulsion still isn't fixed for instance. They need to make these fixes come out quicker.

    The last thing for me is for DTG to stop acting like as if the game will be bigger and better and that ot will be the future only to scrap it and lock the next one behind a paywall which is a mere update to the previous. Stop locking these updates behind a paywall and acting as if it's a new game when it's not. The game engine hasn't changed at all. DTG could've easily made the core free or at a reduced price (around $10-15) and just charged for the DLC. The DLC would've sold anyways and DTG has seen profit gains so there is no reason that this game should cost $40-$50 other than greed. They could've easily made money off the two new routes and extension if they had sold them as standalone dlc's and left the core game separate from these routes but they choose not too. Alot of these "new" features were already built into the game engine but was either never implemented or was implemented via modders in tsw 2 so there was no reason for this pricing structure and clearly that has gotten alot of players not pleased and some existing players feel as if they are getting a bad deal
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
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  42. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    When the Rail Simulator Isle Of Wight route looks better you know you've messed up...

    Personally, I'd want DTG to make TSW3 a free upgrade and keep them as free updates permanently. Then, standardise features across routes (something partially being done already) and fix major inconsistencies between routes. Then, we need to see huge bug fixes for all games it can apply - definitely TSW2 and maybe even TSW1 - and finally not make the same mistakes again.
     
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  43. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Geez I'd really love to start a company and have all you work for me. Since you are willing to work for free the profits would be huge.

    I don't understand why people expect things for free. The world runs on money, this isn't Star Trek. And this is not the first major inflation increase in history either. It seems to happen every 10 years or so.

    So now that the economy is crap they should be charging for upgrades so they can afdord to pay their employees a wage that more represents the new cost of living. And just to make sure they don't go bankrupt.

    It called being a business and not a charity.
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    We all know that dtg are a business. We also know DTG aren't broke. We also know that had they had separated the core and sold these routes as standalone routes that they still would've sold regardless.

    I wonder who's gonna keep saying "DTG are a business" as if none of us here already knows that.
     
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  45. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Then why are most people saying that they should work hard for 6 months and just give everyone that work for free?

    So dynamic weather and lighting aren't worth it. TSG has said in these very forums that this update is bigger than the Rush Hour update was in terms of work.

    We don't know if the entire file structure is changed, and no one here really knows how big of a change this is to TSW3. Unless you work for DTG.

    Everyone just must assume that this is no different than TSW2 then. Perhaps when it gets released or people see the streams they will realize that it is a big upgrade from thebold and stop living in the past.

    As for trust I trust DTG will do what they can to make money. And move on from TSW2 just like they have in the past. People just need to lower their expectaions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    TSC gets the core update free and development is funded by DLC sales. That model seems to work quite well.

    Of course there is a bit of, be careful what you wish for here… If the core update to TSW3 was free and automatic we would all of us find ourselves without a working save game. So the system has pros and cons for sure. However what I do feel (IMHO) is that they have pitched the price of TSW3 a little too high, combined with the inflexible pricing for those already owning the two UK routes.

    As regards trust specifically, well MP has made an earnest statement in the Save Game thread, adamant they will not release TSW3 with a broken save game (though that never worried them before) and that they are planning to restore a working feature ASAP. Well I for one just cannot take that to the bank and go ahead with a purchase. They have had years to get the save game sorted and… well we shall see.
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'll be honest I saw it as £40 or whatever it was for a brand new US route, German route, a doubling of the Uk one and I bundled that shamble of steam in too as it was cheap and I figured they'll pad it out one day vs £25 for one route
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    TSC hasn't had a core update in years. They rebadge the game every year and put a new digit on the front. There's been no game updates, only new DLC (including Euston with the OHLE going through a bridge)
    The only core system that's been put out since I have been playing TSC was 64 bit, and even then they didn't change anything only rebake it in 64bit
     
  49. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    That's disingenuous, there have been other core updates to the game since 64 bit, the first thing that springs to my mind is bringing the FoV option into an in game menu rather than having to set it manually on a per loco basis via a steam command or some minor file editing.but there were others as well.
     
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which are?
    Adding one option setting in 6 years barely counts as an update
     
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