Upcoming Release Master The Machine With Tsw3

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought nobody owns the rights to the design of the BR Class 700 either, but they do
     
  2. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz Well-Known Member

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    I'm cautiously optimistic; I won't be purchasing TSW3 at launch but probably a couple months down the road after bugs have been reported and perhaps fixed. Also, when it's clear TSW2 fixes and preservation updates will be abandoned or not.
     
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  3. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I would want to see the precise details of what DTG actually licensed before making any such comments about having to license the Class 700. And in any case we already know DTG can license/doesn't need to license the Siemens Velaro, because it's in the game already.
     
  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The class 700 was licensed to a specific ownership company until last year, hence it not appearing in any game whatsoever. Eurostar also don't want their IP in games and are very litigious about how their logos are used generally.

    Yes, the train may be in game but the logo and paint job are not, and I'm sure Eurostar would have something to say about them putting it in game
    Also, if the ICE version was put in game this would be incorrect as it doesn't have the additional electric systems used in Germany and Holland
     
  5. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    There's also a long tunnel on SEHS, and it's the most popular route apparently.
     
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  6. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Also, after the negative reaction to the “close but no cigar” livery on the IOW 22 class 474, it’s probably not a good idea to have London to Paris without an accurate Eurostar.
     
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  7. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Again, I would like to know the specifics of that matter.
    Which is why they wouldn't use the logo and exact paint job...
     
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  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    If I understand the graph in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_1 correctly, SEHS tunnels are 7.5km (London Tunnel 1) and 10km (London Tunnel 2), which are considerably shorter than the 50km Channel Tunnel. And yes, I consider SEHS tunnels already quite long when playing SEHS, so I'm not looking forward to the Channel Tunnel.
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Google it
     
  10. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I did so and have not found a source for your claims.
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Odd. Took me about ten minutes to find who owns the 700s, then who owns that company and that there were no IP releases by them
     
  12. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    If you have done so, you can provide links.
    And I wasn't aware than contracts regarding IP were public knowledge...
     
  13. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I really don't know what to think about TSW3. I feel rather underwhelmed with all the info I got now. I like the new menu (could still be better) I love the training center (finally), there are longer routes which is great but that's all to be excited about. Dynamic weather is also great but it's 2022 so it should have been in for years; "real" clouds are great but all of that is graphics and on that part I don"t see much improvement, all graphics improvement seem so minor. To me it feels more like the Rush Hour DLC then the successor to TSW2
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, 45 minutes in a tunnel sure is my idea of a good time.
     
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  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If you're not seeing the results of them, what more knowledge do you really need?
    The 700 would populate a slew of routes on TSC, TSW, Trainz etc etc and it wasn't on any of them until recently.
     
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  16. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Which is why route add-ons are optional. Not every route is for everyone. I can’t say I particularly enjoy driving through tunnels myself, but I wouldn’t mind if the overall objective is to experience the journey between London and Paris.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It can't be 45 minutes, because the journey time from Folkestone (Cheriton) to Callais (Cocquelles) on the Le Shuttle is 35 minutes, and they wouldn't be moving fast into the tunnel and have to slow down very soon after exiting. I'd imagine it's between 20 and 25 minutes in the tunnel for the Eurostar
     
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  18. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Trainz is well known for its large amount of payware providers who respect IP - oh wait no it isn't.
    That DTG only made a Class 700 this year says very little, since we know that DTG doesn't want to produce unbranded trains.
     
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  19. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    I think 45 minutes also includes the time spent in the London tunnels already on SEHS.
     
  20. philwest#7393

    philwest#7393 Member

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    Having experienced all of the problems with TSW2 I am hoping the DTG have learned from the experience and will not let us go through another round of problems with the gameplay. TSW3 is an opportunity to put right all of the wrongs with TSW2. Let’s hope!!
     
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  21. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I think that when I hear people's user names being stated on the live streams lol
     
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  22. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

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    U can’t expect it to be free cuz your getting 2 new routes(3 if u count SEHS) is $120 so giving it out for free would be bad for business.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  23. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Free core upgrade. Just like Train Simulator every year since 2009.
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Different versions of locomotives (home DLC, features) remain in the game. Is it now possible to distinguish one from the other from the game menu? For example in quick drive. TSW 2 PC has such a useful mod for this. THX \o/
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe...
    Two London Tunnels, Thames tunnel (Purfleet), Bluebell Hill tunnel (Maidstone), Channel Tunnel
     
  26. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    Very disappointed with this... For a premium price we get no new British route, a boring High speed route mainly in a tunnel and a nondescript US route.

    And unless you buy it your old routes will remained bugged.

    It's a shameless cash grab at a time when many people are struggling to pay their everyday bills. You've lost it DTG. I'll save my money thanks
     
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  27. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I understand from DTG posts and streams that all TSW2 DLC will run under TSW3 from day one except for the original TSW2 core routes.
    Does this mean that the 1938 stock Bakerloo trains will run OK in scenario planner from day one? Does it come under the new thing that buying a loco is not reliant on having the original route because I thought that was only for future releases?
     
  28. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    And the answer was...?
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    How rude and unhelpful.

    Why should we have to sit through two hours of waffle and high fives to get succinct answers to specific questions .
    DTG should publish a digest of the principal Q&A for those of us who have better things to be getting on with.
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Neither.
    I was serious. If you know the answer why not just say so.
    If not then why comment all.
     
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  31. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    I see the sense of entitlement so prevalent on this forum hasn't diminished any. Some people tagging devs like butlers to answer their own personal questions, while others expect answers to be spoon-fed.

    FWIW, the video is indexed, and is deliberately designed to answer community questions. Is it really so difficult for people to make the effort to find it themselves? DTG don't owe anyone Q&A sessions, they really don't. They do that as a courtesy. Yes it serves their own interests, but that's not a bad thing. I just don't get how people can moan like an air raid siren in these forums, then try to make it sound like the very place where answers can be found is some sort of 'waffle and high fives'. If you haven't watched it, then others will grade your opinion of the content accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No they are trying to sell me a £40 game full of warts and flaws. I would appreciate a digest of what's been said. And FYI kiddo, I have waded through some of the previous streams or at least part of them and I found the experience rather soul destroying. If they can't write down the answers then maybe a brief headline summary at the end would be an idea.

    And the only "entitlement" here, my little sunshine, is that I am entitled to spend my money where I wish and DTG need to work for it. :)
     
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  33. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    Some see only warts and flaws where others see innovation and evolution. And while you may appreciate a digest, they are under exactly zero obligation to provide one. That's rather generous of you, isn't it? Inviting them to spend all that time transcribing the answers into a digest to save you watching at the very most a two-hour video? And even then you can skip through most of it, thanks to the handy time-stamping index they thoughtfully provided.
     
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  34. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    The timestamps are now in the video comments. Will that serve as a headline summary?

    An official digest would be nice, but then I have the feeling there would be complaints about the time taken to do that not being spent working on the game itself.
     
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  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Don't misunderstand me I appreciate the time that goes into producing the streams but ultimately it is a PR exercise to try and sell me the game. I really, really, do have better things to do with my time than spend the equivalent time watching a movie (or actually playing a game) watching and listening to company mouthpieces papering over the cracks. And I am under zero obligation to buy their product if I regard it as shoddy, half finished and delivered with promises (like putting back a decent saved game) which may never actually be fulfilled.
     
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  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    imagine it's the same as driving at midnight no?

    I'll be doing the same, I'll wait for TSW4 :cool:. If you only enjoy UK routes you have two choices and neither really excite me especially SOS so DTG want me to shell out for a route I already have (SEHS) and then redownload all my existing routes but not Bakerloo as it isn't available and then they admitted that it will play the same as TSW2. WTF? Why? Just for the weather? Giving that Paul Jackson and Sam are ex EA I wonder if they are pushing EA practices? They are already copying Bethesda. Perhaps they will be aiming for an annual release?

    I pointed out the other day Rivet wanted to include Lightning in their recent IOW DLC but was told by JD it was pulled by DTG cause they didn't have or couldn't make a toggle for it as it mar trigger people which I still find hard to believe but OK, whatever. If that is the case why does the TSW3 load up screen feature lightning? Is there a toggle for that? Or am I mistaken as I was half asleep.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Must admit I was just doing a run on Dresden to Riesa in TSW2, while contemplating whether to go and buy Sailwind, very pleasant with actually half decent night lighting on this route. Really got me thinking more and more why do I actually need to rush and buy TSW3? TSW2 caters fairly adequately, given the existing routes are going to play pretty much the same as regards lighting and everything else. Okay there will be some new routes coming along, but by then the basic TSW3 will be in the bargain bin, the save game might have been reinstated and the bugs fixed.
     
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  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I need to be convinced the lighting is actually going to be improved at night driving on the British routes for TSW3, some of the stills that have been shown looked over exposed. DTG clearly struggle in this area. TBH I would of rather DTG put of TSW3 until it was worth getting (UE5) and TSW2 had been fixed.
     
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  39. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

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    My biggest wish for TSW3, regarding the lightning, is to be able to still use the .ini settings that worked in TSW2. Especially GTAO, shadow resolution and foliage draw distance. I don't think I can play TSW2 content on TSW3 without these improvements, and I think TSW3, as good as it looks already, can too benefit from GTAO and the draw distance.

    But sadly that's something no QA can answer me, and I have to wait until the game is out and someone tries it. Or I get it myself and try it, and might be dissapointed.
     
  40. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK the engine.ini settings are direct Unreal Engine tweaks, and since TSW3 uses the same version as TSW2, the tweaks should work identically. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
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  41. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

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    Would be very happy if that's true! I would need to live without the lightning changes, of course, as they would mess with the TSW3 routes, but draw distance and GTAO I just can't without. Once with it, never without it. It's just too much a improvement to leave it behind in TSW2.
     
  42. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I only speak French. I use Google translator to read your messages.
    What is said during the streams, I cannot understand anything because of the language.
    A summary would be beneficial for people like me.
    We already don't have the translated manuals, when there are any.

    For the moment my choice is not to take TSW3, given the souk that this suggests.
    Unless they clarify the situation for us. But coming from DTG, I don't believe it.
     
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  43. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think Cajon can be classified as a "nondescript US route" - I mean you are entitled to your opinion - but I for one am really looking forward to this route - I enjoyed it immensely in TSC as well as still making runs over the route in Run 8 - Might not be your cup of tea - but it is a very famous route and sort of a main stay in many train simulators including MSTS, Run 8, TS Classic and even Trainz. So being a "non-descript US route - it is well represented in many different simulator franchises.
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Finally got around to watching Tuesday's Q&A stream. My impression was that there was a lot of talk, much of it padding rather than substantive and that not that many important questions were answered.

    After watching the stream, I still didn't know much about the lighting and nothing about the sound we can expect in TSW3. Plus the " explanation " of the save fiasco is still as incomprehensible as ever.

    So, what do we have? Longer routes which will be initially difficult to play for many of us, a marginally updated game with likely better weather effects, some kind of eye adaptation effect that seems oversold, no improvement in things like night lighting, headlights, tunnel, bridge and track sounds and no substantial step up in graphics quality.

    Even the presenters said that ( and I paraphrase ) what you got in TSW2 will be pretty much what you'll see in TSW3.

    I'll go with the new routes and the upgrades to SEHS and SOS. Those are the reasons to buy this package. The Training Centre (;)) and the Quick Play are not features I'm likely to use. The U I - can't get to grips with it, though Sam did his best. I'll have to see it on my installation when it launches. It can't be worse than the current iteration, that's for sure. And no improved route map. That's a hard one to swallow after all this time. It's never coming, is it?

    They can talk it up, but, all in all, not much of substance to be calling it TSW3. If I like the way the new routes look and play, especially Cajon Pass, I'll probably keep it in my basket.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why they can't improve that route map. It's like the save game. DTG will fix it once there is enough backlash. I think that qa justified why TSW 3 is nothing but a cash grab
     
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  46. BeastyBill88

    BeastyBill88 Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of questions (sorry didn't know where else to post about it) if DTG Protagonist DTG JD TrainSim-Matt or any other staff members able to answer them for me.

    In regards to the 3 core routes from TSW2, it was mentioned that they won't be in TSW3 on launch as they need to be separated from TSW2 and made into their own DLCs with their own store pages. My question is, for TSW2 owners will we receive the Sand Patch Grade, Bakerloo and Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen routes and rolling stock for free in TSW3 or will we have to buy them again as DLC in order to have access to them?

    Also the new visual effects of the sparks and arcing will they be added to electric trains from TSW2? Or are they only for TSW3 trains?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  47. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

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    That's been mentioned on the streams. As you already own the routes as part of TSW2 you will get them for free. They will become separate DLC instead of bundled with the game. We just might need to wait until the are split off and store pages set up.

    I think they are also being split off so if any newcomers go straight into TSW3 they can purchase these routes separately in the future.
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    UE5 will only improve things if the dev team adjust to lighting in UE5 and make the appropriate adjustments. UE5 won't change how bright lights are, how reflective surfaces are or even if lights exist in the first place.

    Lighting and sounds have their own streams upcoming (I think in the next two weeks). They did say that on the stream but not as a direct answer to the questions

    It justified that TSW3 is TSW2 with very small bells on (and a reworked front end which we asked for as soon as TSW2 came out)

    You will get licenses for ALL compatible TSW content, from both TSW1 and TSW2 including the core routes. The only things not coming at all are the route from TSW1 which wasn't in TSW2
     
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  49. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    I think the TSW3 cash grab reveals that every year DTG need to produce a premium priced game to keep the cashflow going, but don't really have the capacity to produce the three new routes or new developments every time that would make a new game worthwhile.

    There are a lot of routes already with a lot of tunnel mileage, large numbers of trees or desert landscapes that are cheap and easy to produce as they require much less effort. High speed routes also obviate the need for detailed landscaping (see SE HS and the TGV route) Urban routes like London commuter had some terrible detailing to some stations as they were obviously rushed because the developer lacked the resources.

    We need more conventional railways with complex freight and passenger operations, passing through multiple stations and varied landscapes. For example, if you want to model a TGV why not add part of the Marseilles - Nice section which is on varied conventional tracks, runs by industrial and residential areas and passes through amazing French Riviera and Provence landscapes. Or is that just too much like hard work?
     
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  50. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    See today's announcement https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...-bkl-ska-and-spg-available-from-launch.57518/
     
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