"international English" Does Not Exist, And Certainly Isn't Us English

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by eldomtom2, Aug 16, 2022.

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  1. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    The claim was made on the Q&A livestream that for the sake of non-native English speakers, TSW3 will solely use US English (with little elaboration on what that means - will we sit in the "engineer's seat" on British trains?) because that is "International English". The problem is that if you actually look up "International English", you won't find anything saying that US English is accepted as any sort of worldwide "International English".
     
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  2. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    oh please no,

    have enough of that on facebook, where english words mean something totally different to americans... and we get in trouble for using them, in a local group (i.e full of people who live within a certain town, where we all speak 'english')

    This is going to be a bit crap for the German content, having to use us english.
     
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  3. olsbyn

    olsbyn Active Member

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    I like having "british english" on the british routes, it makes out for a more real experience when I play on british routes.
    However, the US english could definitely be called "international english" since it's the main language used in 99% of social platforms, the american popular culture is without a doubt a big influence all over the world. In my country both british and american english is now allowed in both spoken and written english in schools.
    I understand especially british people reacting to this since it's originally your language, and imo british is a beautiful language while american is just boring and flat in comparison (no offfence) .
    But the fact is that american english is leading, so maybe it's just natural that it's used in games to..linguistic evolution.
     
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  4. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Oh grow up. They had to standardize on a form of English and chose the most widespread one. Get over it.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    When I'm working a British train, I'm a driver.
    On an American loco I'm an "engineer".
    If they want to spell centre as center that's one thing, but they should keep to the correct national names and phrases for each country.
    More daftness from Dovetail.
     
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There’s no real issue with it being US English. I asked it as the first question on the question thread as a joke. If it hadn’t been the first question I wouldn’t have even posted it. The battle was lost many years before the Training Whatsit.
     
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  7. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    I agree there no such things a International English but go to the original. If this game was made in America fair enough but its made in the UK so sound be uk English
     
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  8. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    The thing i am worried about is it sounds like localisation could be removed, the very stuff that helps with immersion.

    years ago a game was being made based on an american subway, and the developers were asking on a forum i was on for German speaking people to do spoken translations of the station stops etc, for the version of the game sold to the German market....

    people said that's kinda daft, you play a train driving sim to pretend you are there, some people would want to play for nostalgia, to remember a holiday where they rode on that subway etc.

    you don't expect to hear: 'der nächste halt ist nein und fünfzigsten straße, bitte aussteigen in fahrtrichtung links' in an american train, being driven in an american city, by americans.


    I know this is about the spelling of 'centre' in the 'training centre' sign. but how far will it go, do we from now on take a class 47 with 20 oil tankers over the pennines to the depot, then fill them with gasoline?
     
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  9. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Can they just call it Training Centrer so everyone can have the R where they want it?
     
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  10. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    No, because then we wouldn’t be able to make 50 threads about this nonsense.
     
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  11. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    upload_2022-8-16_22-23-53.png

    If we are talking "International English" then surely Blue covers a higher percentage the red? Afterall India and China are the 2 most populated countries in the world and both teach British English.

    Why dont DTG just admit they've done this to appease the US market.
     
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  12. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    But they havent chosen the most widespread one as the infographic Ive shared above shows.
     
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  13. olsbyn

    olsbyn Active Member

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    redrev1917 That map isn't correct, it pictures Norway ( where I'm from ) in blue, which means our schools teach british english, that simply isn't correct, both variants is considered equals here. So with that in mind, how can one be sure this isn't true for more countries ?
     
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  14. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    The really sensible option would be to rephrase it so British/American differences don't come up, by naming it "Driving School" for instance.
     
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    As an American, I approve of DTG doing this ;)
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Wow, we’ve found something you approve of at last :D
     
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  17. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    That graphic is based on which English is officially taught in state/public schools. And whilst they'll always be grey areas, Russia, India, China & most commonwealth countries definitely teach the British version, so either by population or area British English is most widespread.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It was a joke. Frankly I'd prefer if they just made the British happy and put centre but I guess it ain't that big of a deal (Really isn't a big deal to be honest)
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know, so was my reply
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Cant we all just view English as English that has it's variations. I'd assume there are different variations of the german language just like there are different variations of the Spanish language. Center and Centre are the same thing. It's not big deal
     
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  21. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    It's not about that, it's about the claim that the entire game will be in American English.
     
  22. Hiro Protagonist

    Hiro Protagonist Well-Known Member

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    You could argue that Australia teaches Australian English, which whilst it is mostly the same to British it does have some differences.
     
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  23. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    It is the same in Spain (also in blue in the map).
     
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  24. Kitten

    Kitten Active Member

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    Well USA is the current superpower, so it tends to dictate a lot of cultural things like spelling and pronounciation, and being able to call it "International English".

    I'm sure we will get a localisation mod to address this for those bothered by it.

    As for DTG shamelessly using a British Railways heritage font with US spelling, it is just disrespectful/ignorant of the history behind it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  25. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure Canadian English also has differences, eh?

    May I suggest Latin, e.g. "Centrum Disciplina". It's neutral and also sounds fancier.
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So fancy. DTG should use it
     
  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it should be in old english then at this point
     
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  28. Hiro Protagonist

    Hiro Protagonist Well-Known Member

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    Esperanto perhaps?
     
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  29. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Just use a picture book at this rate.....
     
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  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Have a heart. Do you really expect them to use two versions of English? They've got enough on their plate. Just use one or the other. I understand both. Though I do like to hear German on German trains, even though I don't speak a word of " Deutsch ". ;)

    " Taught " maybe. Spoken ? That's another thing.
    I like to watch British TV and I hear a lot of American speech, albeit in English accents. It's rather amusing, old chap. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  31. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Glad we’ve found a new topic to be excited about.
    Can’t wait for Dtg English Classic being upgraded to Dtg English 2.
    Must pre-order now for the discount.
     
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  32. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Well-Known Member

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    Pathetic topic to be in arms about imo.
     
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  33. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    As a non-native speaker, this is nonsense. It is not what you're taught, it is what kind of content you consume. You pick the majority of phares, and general language usage from actually listening to english, and in the wast majority that is US English.

    Also... we don't really care, tire/tyre, color/colour, analyse/analyze, defence/defense... we don't really care, and usually intermix it... And most of the more nuances like engineer/driver are totally lost on us.... Soo, keep fighting your fight, just don't assume that majority of the blue world actually cares ;)
     
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  34. Vograx

    Vograx Active Member

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    As a Norwegian I have to say that I am more partial to US-English than UK-English, even though we learn both in Norwegian schools. Though even in schools it tend to lean more towards the US-English due to it's more widespread use, and students are made aware of the differences that may occur if they run into UK-English.

    I understand both perfectly fine, and I understand the differences. I honestly don't care if you call it a truck or a lorry, sidewalk or pavement, or hood, bonnet, boot or a trunk. Aluminum or aluminium, center or centre, it makes no real difference. I know what the variations mean. Consequently I'm not bothered if it's spelled Centre or Center. I still grasp its intended meaning.

    So why am I partial to US-English then?

    Because US-English is far more dominant on social media platforms, in general on the internet, certainly so in popular media such as movies. It's simply more widespread which means it's what you come to expect to see, read or hear in most situations. To be honest anytime UK-English being used my first reaction is "that's different and kinda novel". Because it's NOT what you expect in the majority of cases on the internet, social media or gaming.

    By all means, if there is a voice announcer on a train like the TPWS announcer on the Rush Hour train when you start it up, then that can be in a local language. Likewise with the German voice annunciations in German trains. But that's really up to the developer of the specific train, yeah?

    However, that all said, I'm not much bothered if it's UK or US English. Just as long as either one available and used so I can understand it.
     
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  35. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Well-Known Member

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    Surely if it's this big of an issue a modder can flip 2 letters...

    *cough cough* any modders around?
     
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  36. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    There is only one English, the clue is in the name.

    Our American friends spell, and pronounce, certain words incorrectly which is their right, but that doesn’t constitute a new language.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, the above is tongue-in-cheek)

    This sounds to me like yet another British company doing down their own country. It’s all part of this nonsense ‘woke’ agenda that DTG seem to be all in on. Why on Earth would this even cross their minds to make into a thing? It’s just ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  37. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    It is also irrelevant because it includes countries where the game is already localised into the local language so far less likely anyone would be needing to play in English (The game is localised into Simplified Chinese, Russian, German, Spanish, French). But there always has to be a conspiracy, DTG secretly trying to undermine the Queen or something, it's par for the course with this forum, a helpful addition for some players at no real inconvenience to anyone else? No! It's evil/incompentent/woke.

    Frankly, looking at the very familiar line up of detractors, DTG are once again annoying all the right people. Progress!
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't care how they spell centre / center but a driver should be a driver, an engineer should be an engineer, a lift should be a lift and an elevator an elevator... In the end people will be able to understand it either way, and unless we're starting down the route of being grammar police, this is kind of pointless. We see enough grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes on this forum that there aren't many who should be picking holes in others...

    Woke refers to social injustice. I doubt anyone is being physically, mentally or morally harmed by having the r "in the wrong place" any more than they would dropping a u from a word... I mean most of the british drop H and T out of a lot of words themselves so haven't really got the "linguistic moral high ground"
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    In this case it would be a thing, because they're not necessarily going to be changing the sign on the training building for each territory
     
  40. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Bloody me! Witness the fall of Britannia and its consequences. Hold yourself together, mate. :o

    Cheers
     
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  41. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    dtg going to regret that move. We will be giving them headaches with us complaining lol .
     
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  42. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I completely disagree. This agenda involves the denouncing of everything British, and anything that is historically British. It is going on every day, right before our very eyes and involves the determined re-writing of history in our schools and Universities. Again, I ask, why did this even cross their minds? Have they been inundated with complaints that people didn’t understand English? I highly doubt it.

    Colour is good. Difference is good. I don’t know when you last watched a child play with playdough, but you’ll see them take all these lovely colours and mix it together into one big, ugly, colourless useless mess. Slowly but surely, bit by bit, this is happening in Britain and this is just another example of it. Yes it’s small, and yes you get the ‘what a silly thing to be annoyed by’ brigade (you can see examples of this in this very thread), but when you start to put all of these little things together it starts to add up into something big.

    There was a story that broke yesterday in the British press that highlights just how dangerous all of this nonsense is. I’m not putting it here because it’s off topic, bit that should be ringing alarm bells as to the sort of social engineering that is going on, and what all of these seemingly small things can add up to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  43. Vograx

    Vograx Active Member

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    Not to rain on your parade here, but US-English is actually more historically English than your current UK-English.

    So if your argument is that the "correct" English is the original English from a historical perspective then you are actually being pro-US-English in this case.

    As seen in this article from your very own BBC:
    https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english

     
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  44. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the BBC. They are at the absolute spearhead of exactly what I’m talking about. The sooner that organisation is consigned to the history books the better off we’d all be.
     
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  45. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I think your chauvinism is blinding you. The culture war is all circus and you ought to look past it to see what hides behind the curtains.

    N.B. I hope your play dough analogy is not hinting towards Great Replacement fear as was my initial impression.

    Cheers
     
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  46. Vograx

    Vograx Active Member

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    Well, I'm not really advocating the BBC in any way. What they are discussing in this article is not BBC opinions. It's built on linguistic history which shows that current US-English is closer to the historical British-English than todays current UK-English.

    You can look it up and find a number of other non-BBC sites with the same information as it pertains to the linguistic differences between the US and contemporary UK, and how linguistically the US are closer to the historic form of British.

    At the end of the day your language in the UK has changed away from the former British and to a more modernized version of it while the US on their end kept the "proper" English in a much larger degree.

    At least as far as the written form goes. The variations in their dialects from state to state, and even county to county, is a whole other matter entirely.
     
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  47. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Play the ball, not the man. You don’t know anything about me and have never met me, so don’t start slighting me with things you know nothing of. Ok?
     
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  48. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    It probably is not recognised as international English. But lots of people around the world learn their English from US movies. To me US English is more common than UK English even when the UK is practically our neighbour. To be fair English is just very bad French ;)

    That map shown where entire map of Europe is UK English is incorrect. English is not an official language in Belgium. The only place where you will find English in our country is on TV and cinema. There is way more US content than UK content so Belgium should be red on that map
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  49. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter? We're all literate enough to understand what "center" means so as long as nothing is lost in translation who cares?

    This just feels like another excuse to criticise DTG generally. There are a lot more things that are more worthy of backlash than something as trivial as this. I doubt most players will even notice the difference when playing.

    I'm a Brit, and while I would certainly like the option of British English it's absence doesn't really bother me.
     
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  50. Vograx

    Vograx Active Member

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    Oh wow... #shotsfired on that one. I know a Parisian who would completely agree with you haha.

    I'm in the same page as you on this one. Most people outside the US and UK (and likely many even within both the US and UK) end up using the specific UK and US terms, written forms and such mixed together. Sometimes you write color and another time you might write colour. As far as communicating goes it makes no difference as both are understood by those who need to understand it.

    However, I can understand that DTG want to go for one specific style of writing so it looks less haphazard when they are writing articles, statements or whatever text goes into their game as well. If it is a big mixed bag of both US and UK English variations of words then it just looks unprofessional. So I get where they are coming from.

    But for us as the end users it really doesn't matter. Even less so for those of us who don't have English as a first language, whether it is US or UK variants. As long as we understand it we don't care much what the written form is like.
     
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