How Do Dtg Restore Trust With Community?

Heading to Brighton is fine but anything to victoria and I always get stuck somewhere between East croydon and Victoria!

 

next time you do it, let me know the service number etc and I'll see if I can recreate...
I'm sure you don't drive like a nutter or pensioner so are creating the issue yourself

 

Lol sticking to speed limits I will sometimes arrive a minute or two early to some stations but leave on schedule.

I'll have another go later.

Thanks.

 

I've never had any gameplay problems with BML. In fact, I think it's an extraordinarily well made route ( ignoring Reigate ). I just find the trains very boring, push and run toys.

 

Aren't all trains basically "push and run" since steam?

 

No, I think the locos in NTP, TVL, WSR are much more challenging, particularly if you drive them from a cold start. And the US locos ( which I know you don't drive ) can be quite difficult, like, for example, the Gevo on HSC with MU's and a long consist. Sorry to say, the German locos in the game are mostly just " red go-karts ".

 

Depends on the train. I wouldn't call a diesel-mechanical "push and run"...

 

i've always had a thing for underground / U-Bahn trains, but my interest is only of older stuff, back when you actually drove the train,
if i was offered the chance to be a london underground driver today, i'd refuse it.

nowadays you are just a button pusher on a lot of underground railways around the world, the S-bahns lines are going the same as are some main line railways.

you press a 'start' button and the train drives itself to the next station, you open the doors, close the doors then press the 'go' button again, the train drives itself to the next station' repeat that ~100+ times per shift.

I am actually waiting for dtg to release a DLC just like that, to keep the younger generation who only like the latest plastic trains happy.

and it's why i keep being drawn back to driving the BR112 expert line version from virtual railroads in TSC, you need to learn how to drive that train, you'll get very frustrated if you tried to drive it like the version in tsw thats for sure, as you'll be getting traction lockouts all the time, and burning the motors out as there's no motor temperature display in the tsw version.

 

Next time you play, pick class 387 1D32 Victoria to Gatwick 08:58. You might see 2 trains head on with each other.

 

That’s why I like NTP and TVL (apart from the latter having so pmany bugged uncompleteable scenarios), is that driving older diesels and the MetCam DMU are far more of a challenge than the modern stuff. I mean the Electrostars you can pretty much hit the platform ramp at 40 MPH and still stop in time. Try doing that with the Class 31 or the DMU!

 

Um, considering that route DLCs ordinarily go for 25 quid apiece.....

 

If they are of interest... Otherwise they wait for a sale or go unpurchased.

 

They will come to tsw 3. The fixes that is

But my jaw dropped when they said they wouldn't be improving performance. So all the stuttering in tsw 2 will most likely be in TSW 3 which is absolutely ridiculous

 

exactly... all this 'tsw3 is a brand new game' is not really true to me,

it's an update of tsw2, and should have been called tsw2.1 or something,

to me, a new game means better graphics, better performance, new features... meaning new stuff that had to be programmed in from scratch, and not available already in the last version and just not turned on officially,

 

Yea mine too. I guessed tsw3 was just an updated version of tsw2 otherwise they would have switched to ue5 but I was not expecting all the problems to carry over to tsw3.

I've created another thread asking dtg about this, I'm hoping to get a answer before the end of the day, I'm really considering cancelling my pre order now.

 

I've been driving the NTP and TVL runs and besides needing to manage the engine spinning up if you forget and put it in 0 I really don't see much difference in how they operate. OK an electrostar has four forward and three brake settings which makes it a bit easier, but you could say similar about a class 91
The older stuff may have needed a bit more coaxing and certainly the brakes need managing more, but other than that you go, you slow down where needed, you stop.

So you're saying old stuff is better because the brakes were milk bottle tops...?

 

UE5 wouldn't help in the slightest. Given DTG haven't managed to optimise UE4 I don't see why moving to a more complex system would help

 

Nor would the game look different on UE5 as well

 

More and more my wallet is staying firmly closed.
Seems TSW3 is offering less and less by the day. They have taken away our save game but introducing two new routes of which at least one will need it.
Then it is going to ship full of the existing TSW2 bugs! So not only did they lie to us about fixing up the "core" of TSW2 when they were actually working on "3", looks like they weren't working on fixes at all. So this is why (coming back to the old chestnut) I have zero faith in their promise to look urgently at the save game situation.

Got to admit, that new sailing sim where you navigate by the stars and catch fish to survive (like a Viking) is looking a more likely destination for my cash.

 

no, but it could then be seen by many as a 'new game' as it's on the latest version of the game engine?

 

It's just progression I guess. As game engines evolve, developers switch to the new tech. I think tsw is gonna end up like tsc where not much graphical improvement is going to come to tsw for quite some time.

 

Until they load it up and get a SPAD or a chain of red lights?

 

I will wait on a decent demo of the lighting system to pass judgement on that one. Like is night actually decent now?

 

Until the same core issues pop up again

 

Well I won't be purchasing until:-

a) promised bug fixes are fixed and released
and
b) stuttering is all but solved or at least vastly improved

No way can I purchase the new High Speed German route and put up with pauses and stutters every couple of seconds once I hit high speed, nah, not for me.

 

Lighting hasn't really bothered me that much. It's a bit poor on older low res monitors but on a uhd TV it's not so dark. I noticed the other day on ntp that if you switch on the cab light it lights up the world a bit!

Stuttering is a main concern so is draw distance, have you noticed that distant lights like towns and industries etc... don't actually light up until your ontop of them.


Like drive thru redcar britsh steel at night, the whole place is in darkness. Until draw distance is improved the lighting isn't.

 

Oooh i'm intruiged- what's it called?

Still buying TSW3, but i'm always interested in new gaming experiences.

 

Sailwind, on Steam. One for sailing fans alone.

 

That's the one.

Sailwind on Steam (steampowered.com)

I think it's still early access at the moment but the initial reviews seem very favourable. I like the ideas behind the challenges it sets, but if the prospects of TSW3 still aren't looking good by release date (particularly the save game issue) then I will be sorely tempted.

 

After watching the stream last night (thanks for taking the time to do into all the detail) I'm more positive. My areas of concern revolve around:

1. Progress transfer (on Steam) and it seems like that should be okay (though understand not confirmed just yet). For me (although I know not others) it's a big demotivator to lose it.
2. Save issue. I'm not thrilled about it, I'm sure you aren't either, but I think I'm reassured as to the focus it will be given. I will start with runs I know I can fit into my game time, and although I was really looking forward to the long Cajon Pass runs, those will have to wait.
3. I'm disappointed that lighting can't be baked into existing routes, and while I understand the resource needed for this, because it's not possible for it to be done it does still leave me with a question mark over the "TSW Vision" - of course, forward compatibility with the TSW Compatible efforts is good, but having two tiers of DLC in the library is unfortunate. And with TSW3 not being the upgrade, I do wonder about the future... will TSW4 be expected in two years, with some core upgrades, but we go through the same experience except with three tiers of DLC (since TSW3 DLC by then won't be able to handle [insert upgrade here] etc)?

Overall I'm keeping my preorder, and look forward to seeing the new game in full, but there are inevitably still some doubts overall that I think can only be fixed over time.

 

The other thing that stood out is one of the consoles has a limited amount of achievements. It was cited that part of the reason for tsw3 was also to reset that. Assuming we know the cap and how many achievements each route will have it’ll provide an idea of longevity

 

Thanks!! Think i'm gonna pick this up. The trailer reminds me of Sea of Thieves (presumably without the piracy).

SoT might be my overall favorite Gen8/Gen9 game, but a more chill version with more sim aspects certainly wouldn't be unwelcome.

 

and that there almost confirms that once those achievements are used up again, it'll be time for tsw4, then tsw5 and so on, and not because the 'new version of tsw' is actually new.

But we all know that medals, points and achievements are the most important thing in a train driving simulator.

so much for 'consoles do not affect the pc version of the game'

 

My finger is poised on the "Buy" button.
I'm assuming it has a save game feature that actually works!

 

Exactly how I read between the lines too.

 

and to think, this all started with 'we are taking time off creating DLC's to work on the bugs in tsw2'

 

Sounds interesting. Have you got a link where I can check it out?

 

Just go back up the thread a bit, link to Steam page there.

 

Yes. I wonder how many people who are saying TSW should go to UE5 actually understand what UE5 is and how, if at all, TSW would benefit. Or do they want it just because 5 is higher number than 4?

 

Sections of the community have been saying that they want longer routes and would pay more for them, DTG said consistently no we wouldnt but have have tested the water here with longer routes at a higher price and the community is kicking back saying it's to expensive. Guess they've proved their point.

 

Ive let the moths out for this. Definitely interest me more than “shambles of smoke” route

 

i'd pay for new features, more things working in train cabs, joystick support, longer draw distance, better graphics, optimization, get rid of the stutters and so on.

tsw3 just dosent seem to be that good value to me, it's still the same old stuff from tsw2, that will play the same as tsw2, with things that were already possible in tsw2 but they are now turned on ''officially'' instead of needing a mod.

and it's now a £50 game for the core engine and 3 route starter pack.

 

To be fair there was a kind of shooting themselves in the foot effect there, since I imagine most people would have been fine buying three new routes at that price, but a lot of us already own SEHS.

While this structure will have been decided some time back, I do suspect DTG were looking closely at the sales of Rivet's Island Line revamp when it launched recently to get an idea of how to expect the community would take this upcoming announcement.

 

Well let's just say if it had been the right routes and the issue of the save game aside, then my personal view would have been different.

Okay Cajon Pass is iconic, I will grant - maybe not as much as Tehachapi but a good addition - but then without any sort of save feature in TSW3 until God knows when it is pretty much useless.

The German route is long but how much more work that entailed is open to debate as a fair percentage is in (long) tunnels. It's also a route and part of Germany that you would need to be fairly well versed on their rail system to have heard of unlike (say) the Rhine or even Mosel Valley which are iconic and much requested in the Suggestions forum.

As for the UK, people have been requesting sections of the WCML or ECML since TSW first hatched but instead we are getting a warmed over version of SEHS, again building on what was already in game with a substantial section of the new part in tunnel thus mitigating the route builder's task. Even though I don't have working knowledge of DTG's UE4 editor, I'm sure there is plenty of copy and paste or autogen going on to create the scenery relatively quickly.

In short, a route bundle of Cajon Pass, Rhine Valley and WCML over Shap from Preston to Carlisle (or Carlisle to Glasgow) would in all likelihood have had me reaching for my debit card while drooling down my chin all over the cat. But with the other factors added in, it's not. I will buy longer routes and if need be pay slightly more for them, but not the ones DTG have chosen.

 

"But this goes to 11!"

 

Is the price per route really higher, though?
If I bought the standard or deluxe editions, I'd get the 2 new routes for $25-27 each, which is actually less than the current price of $30.
And that's not including the extra baubles, bangles and beads that come with each package.

 

Theres no disputing that if you buy either the US or German starter pack it is more expensive. And let's not even go there on SEHS mk2. I mean who in their right mind is going to spend £30 ok that starter pack even if you don't own the original route?

 

As a relatively new user, of both TSW2 and TSC, and limited time on the forums, my honest observation is that most people on here sit in one of 2 camps:

1. TSW is a simulator, with gaming elements, and everything within the game has to be mm accurate, otherwise they are not happy.
2. TSW is a game, that looks like a simulator. These users are easier to please, as expectations are lower, as long as the game plays well.

We know they will never please everyone. Some of the stuff moaned about on here is almost laughable IMO. But its difficult to please 2 distinct groups and different individuals. What's important to one person is irrelevant to the next.
I am not defending DTG here. I am disappointed with some aspects of the game, especially the performance at times. But I am firmly in the second camp. I am lucky to get a few hours a week on the game, so I just enjoy it for what it is. Trains were a huge part of my childhood, so I enjoy the fact that the game takes me back to some very happy times.
IMO, It would help if DTG became more transparent with what they are doing, and trying to do. Become more open and honest about issues the game is having, and work to fix issues in a more timely manner. Time will tell if TSW3 is the start of this journey, and will allow them to deal with issues better going forward. The current code is clearly a web of spaghetti that's becoming harder and harder to untangle. We have already seen how fragile TSW2 can be, and how one fix, even on a specific route, can create issues on other routes. This makes bug fixing incredibly difficult.
At the end of the day, they are a business looking to make money.(Something that has become frowned upon in the modern world)
All we can do is provide feedback, constructive criticism, and vote with our wallets.

 

Welcome, and though you have good observations, I think this thread goes at the cost/value/effort DTG is putting into the product with bug fixes on old content and maturity of new content, alongside what they've previously stated about the plan to fix bugs. I don't think most people here are complaining if a rail is 1mm too wide compared to actual gauge.

This is where the heartburn starts. They used to be a lot more quiet about things, and the community pushed back enough where they had to be open if they were going to keep the fan base at ease. The problem now is what we were expecting this summer in free fixes for content we've purchased is now behind a paywall. It's nothing about time or accuracy, just that the product is being improved.

I absolutely want DTG to make money, I for sure am not here to attempt to bankrupt them. I'm also not expecting DTG to be a charity here. I do though expect the products I paid for to work effectively though, and the boundaries constantly pushed in capability, performance, and quality for new products. The cost they incurred for fixing bad software engineering decisions should not be forced upon the customer, but TSW3 is clearly a sign of that. Would you like if a construction worker completed a job for you, did it wrong , so you have to pay again to fix it? How about your phone being buggy, so you have to pay for the software from the manufacture to fix it? How about a car mechanic doing a repair wrong? Would you be insulted in any of these cases? If so, do you or do you not feel the same here?

SW development is hard, but that doesn't mean you dump the costs for the fixes onto the customer, and try to lie to them about something being new, when it's really a minor update.