Upcoming Release Master The Machine With Tsw3

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Which is why I said I would rather DTG put TSW3 off until it was worth doing it, i.e having UE5 because as it is now it just looks like a money grab to me and there is very little so far to justify this so called upgrade.
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Although I'm not overly impressed with the core and gameplay advances in TSW3, it does have 2 new and potentially fun and interesting routes plus 2 reworked routes ( how much reworking we don't really know ). So, I would certainly not call it a cash grab.
     
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  3. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That heavily assumes that the potential customer wants those routes no?
     
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  4. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Which is true in ANY commercial transaction - if the customer does not want the service or product - then why would the customer even be considering buying it. That decision is on the customer - not the provider of the service or product. From what I have read - plenty of people are looking forward to TWS3 - of course there is the usual very vocal group that do not look forward to anything that is being provided.

    So it is only a cash grab if you buy it but do not really want.it. :)
     
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  5. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think it's fairly safe to assume that the Kassel-Wurzburg route will be very popular in Europe and there are plenty of US fans of Cajon Pass. And it remains to be seen how well -received the SEHS and SOS upgrades will be.
    DTG will have done their market research.
     
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  6. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    From what I read there are also people that want the weather updates/Training Centre but not the routes. For example I only go for UK routes but not interested in SOS and already have SEHS so it doesn't seem worth it to me.

    How you describe a 'cash grab' is not how I would describe it. I would say if you identify a 'cash grab' you are more likely to not buy it. As many have stated here about TSW3.
     
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  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I find the phrase " being provided " rather curious. DTG is not some quasi- official agency handing out benefits. It's a commercial company competing for our gaming dollars. While I usually respect your opinions, LeadCatcher, I often sense an intolerance of any kind of criticism in your posts. Those of us who have found fault(s) with TSW3 have good reason and are mostly ardent fans of the game.
     
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  8. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is practically nothing for British fans and other Europeans get another German route that is probably the least interesting German route so far. By all means do German routes if there is a big market but why not do ones with interesting international connections and operations, such as Munich - Salzburg or the French cross border route that converges on Strasbourg?

    Yes, there are some people who just want to go fast and nothing else (the TSW version of Dega-heads) but that becomes old very quickly for most fans....
     
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  9. BeastyBill88

    BeastyBill88 Well-Known Member

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  10. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    In that case wait until sometime next year when not only will the price be cheaper but you will also have seen a route in which you are interested. None of the routes are really that interesting to me and I'm quite happy to stick with TSW2 for now.

    I'm certain that there will be hiccups with TSW3 initially not to mention the lack of saves etc. I'm quite happy to wait until all that stuff is in a much better place before I start considering whether to buy it. I have far better things to with my time than moaning about it being a cash grab on this forum.
     
  11. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Ok - I should have included the " being provided for sale" that way it couldn't be misconstrued ... And Yes, I am probably do come across as intolerant in some posts - especially like the gradient problem recently discussed on SEHS - route has been out for a lengthy time and either the defect was not noticed or mentioned - but once it was pointed out the gnashing of teeth, the wringing of hands on how could a software developer be so incompetent was, well rather entertaining from a laughable point of view -- or the discussion on how the hair on passengers looks like wig, or several other little nits that seem to be made into mountains in the forum discussions.

    Legitimate criticisms and faults discussions, I have no problem with - .such as the removal of the save functionality in TSW3, the derail problems, the CTD concerns. Unfortunately, the tone of the forums have changed over the years to where is is more of a complaint fest rather than a place to discuss solutions, work arounds and help others with the simulation. Because of this change, I have found myself spending much less time interacting with this community.

    Best
     
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  12. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    This is a very good point, TSW2 introduced the horrendous new UI, modders even made the old TSW2020 front end for those on PC to get away from it. Now we are being sold TSW3 as having a great new UI haha, we are paying twice: once to mess it up, and once to fix it afterwards...

    Seriously, fix the issues that have always been there and ask for money, but don't break something and then ask for money to fix it...
     
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  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I won't consider the UI " fixed " until it incorporates an interactive 2d map with at least the functionality of the one that's been part of TSC since 2009.
     
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  14. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Has it been explained how the Training Center will affect the tutorials on existing TSW routes? Will these tutorial stay, or get replaced entirely by the Training Center?

    Part of me hope they’ll disappear as many of them are glitched and therefore cannot be completed.
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AIUI, the old tutorials are going away completely and being replaced. Most of the new tutorials will be located in the training center, but some more specialized ones (for example, LZB) will instead be on the actual route.

    WISHLIST ITEM: too late to change now, I know- it would be great if all tutorials use voiceover.
     
  16. nsilano

    nsilano New Member

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    So disappointed by this. People have been begging for TSW2 fixes and for TSW2020 fixes for years and have gotten close to nothing. DTG consistently does not care about what their consumers have to say and take advantage of peoples interest in trains by only seeing it as a way to profit. They hype up then re-release the same products for the same if not more than the original cost with little to no changes and on top of that it will be a bug fest. They built up a loyal fanbase (and know it) and take advantage of peoples wallet's all the time. They break promises that they have made and don't take any accountability. Scrolling through here its clear that their only concern is to people who are happy with TSW3, not the majority of people who aren't. I've seen so many posts with concerns and not one of them have a reply from a Dovetail staff meanwhile I see people giving complements and those have reply's from staff etc. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but Dovetail has made it very clear where their priorities are at with this series and hint hint, its not about improvements, its about $$.
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? I ain't buying it. No point for me to spend my money on it. It's a cash grab and Im certainly not the only one who thinks that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  18. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    I am watching the TSW3 Kassel-Würzburg preview stream and everything looks very saturated and bright, as normal what you see is what you get usually with TSW streams, so not really "better graphics"...
     
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  19. Froof

    Froof New Member

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    ETCS is in the game, on S-Bahn Zentralschweiz, so why didnt you implement it in the ICE traines?
     
  20. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Ask them to drive past midnight so you can judge the new lighting.
     
  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's nothing more than Level 1 Limited Supervision. Switzerland has only installed Level 2 on its high-speed line.
     
  22. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    The lighting looks very flat, the onboard tour showed zero passengers and worse lighting than the ICE 3 in TSW2
     
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  23. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    What time of day was this?
     
  24. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    About 8am.

    Also, entering tunnel lights up the screen blue just like SEHS, and it dims in installments.

    EDIT: from what JD said it sounds like this might be eye adaptation run backwards, but this is of course wrong.

    Entering the tunnel - light to dark - everything goes black and then you become accustomed to the gloom and start to make things out as your night vision improves.

    Leaving the tunnel - dark to light - everything goes very bright and you are blinded but then gradually adapt and can open your eyes more and things start to revert to normal.

    Also confirmed no Nightjet, these will be existing loco stock standing in for those services.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  25. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    The new German route is a tad too bright. I was tempted to turn town the brightness of my TV while watching the stream.

    On another note, the new volumetric clouds somewhat resemble the cloud texture the Preservation Team recently decided to scrap. Makes me wish even more they didn’t implement that blurry high-altitude texture instead. Basically, the original TSW2 clouds (while not exactly great), were more consistent with TSW3 clouds if you ask me.
     
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  26. mickelmickle

    mickelmickle Member

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    what's happened to Tunnel reverbs sounds ?
     
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  27. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    DTG knows how to do them, but you'll have to go all the way back to Sand Patch Grade to hear them.
     
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  28. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I have to be honest, I turned off the stream halfway through. It just doesn’t look interesting. You’re immediately on LZB so you just put AFB and throttle to max and acknowledge SIFA every 30 seconds? Yawn.

    Koln-Aachen and Munich-Augsburg may not have had an hour-long drive at full speed, but the drivable S-bahn and RE services more than made up for it. The mix of services—high speed, regional, dense commuter and freight—was what made those routes interesting, not just “high-speed train go brrrrr!”

    The ICE 1 looks good, model-wise, but that alone doesn’t make it worth the purchase for me. (And I agree with other comments that it has kind of a weird brightness to it, which makes it look like it doesn’t belong in the same frame as the rest of the scenery.) Add in the still-atrocious lighting and the janky tunnel darkness, and it really makes me wonder and kind of worry a bit… if this is the flagship route they chose to show first, what sort of state are the other two in…?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  29. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I did not expect a miracle yesterday, but it was mediocre at best. The Rookie did well for the first time, but I think I prefer SaMat sets for such big premieres. Still waiting with curiosity, but the hype is dead. BR

    PS

    I like the weather
    I like such washed-out colors, a matter of taste
    I don't like the OLD mess with trains on the menu - which version will we go? It is hard task even for devs itself
    There is a mod for TSW2. Is it so hard to fix?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2022
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  30. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really impressed of Kassel Würzburg, the only thing I'm not quite happy with is, that the ICE 1 always have the same interior of the wagons, I'm not sure if the ice always has the same seating position in every wagon, but correct me if I'm wrong
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Surely this is the reality of high speed railways?
    • You set your power, get up to speed and then either the speed control takes over or you balance the power to keep your speed
    • Because you're supposed to be running fast everything else gets out of your way so all lights are green
    • The driver is basically there to ensure you stop at the right place at the next platform 50 miles away
     
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  32. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    After looking at the new UI in the past couple of streams I'm wondering was the new UI/menus made with small mobile devices' touch screens in mind? The huge buttons and tiles look sized the way you can't mistap with fat fingers while playing on a 5-inch screen.
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was modelled after Windows 8...
     
  34. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    It's made with consoles in mind. This UI is how a UI should look on consoles. Can't complain about the UI much at this point. Except for the background that looks awful but that's a matter of taste.
     
  35. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    Only have one drawback regarding the new UI at this point: total number of avl services isn't shown. I hope DTG can fix that before launch
     
  36. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    The TSW3 UI looks way better than the redesigned and inefficient TSW2 UI. That said, the timetable needs to show the number of services available.
     
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  37. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    And the train selection menu has to show which exact train (version) is currently selected :)
     
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  38. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    No, the train selection menu should only contain one entry per train. Why does DTG not remove all the old incarnations of the 185.2 and 185.5?
     
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  39. david-bright184169

    david-bright184169 Active Member

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    After watching the live stream last night and seeing what the new German route looks like I decided I'm not interested in it and cancelled my preorder for Xbox, I think I'll wait to see what the other pre release streams look like and then try the finished product on gamepass first.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What about repaints etc? People might want to run their ICE in bright pink with sparkles
     
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  41. david-bright184169

    david-bright184169 Active Member

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    I haven't heard them since TSW2020
     
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  42. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it should show repaints... But take a look at how the menu looked in the preview stream. It had multiple entries for the 185.2, some of those even had multiple paintjob versions in the right hand menu. DTG should remove the duplicate entries and just put the latest and greatest version of each train/loco in. There shouldn't be an issue with running the newest 185.2 on older routes like Ruhr Sieg Nord, because loco substitution already allows newer trains like the BR182 to drive on those older routes.
    For this reason, I think DTG should uncouple loco's and routes for their older content as well, and not only for the new content going forward. I understand that this takes time, but it would be a one-time thing and well worth it.
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not knowing the German network, are all 185.2s the same nationwide or are there regional differences which may account for that?
    I know in the UK there are multiple 377s in the game but IRL they'd all be the same
     
  44. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

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    I asked that question on the q & a stream. See my question in the thread (they cut part of it) and matts answer.
    To put it basically, there are reasons for all the versions. I'd rather they make one version that becomes the defanitive version (uncoupled from a particular route) then if any improvements come along instead of making a complete train just improve on what they have already done. Surely it must save on dev time and money.
     
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  45. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

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    I put that in a post on the Q&A thread. It was sort of answered on the stream with a "there are reasons for the versions" I paraphrased a little there.
     
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  46. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Presumably the reason being that locos are still coupled to a home route in legacy TSW2 content, which is no longer the case for native TSW3 content.

    Hopefully this will be something preservation crew (or whatever the new name is) can work on after launch as it's really confusing even for existing players. Newbies wouldn't even have a clue lol.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately depending on the changes they make this may necessitate a change in the timetable on all affected routes so it may well be a case that them NOT making it all the same across the entire game boils down to timings and physics
     
  48. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I hope they’ll add some stuff to the Boston sprinter route like the Hsp46 locomotive and the bilevel coach’s or maybe add the MBta commuter rail Worcester line to the Boston sprinter route.
     
  49. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    You are right but this is why high speed routes don't make for very interesting gameplay. Enjoyable for a couple of tuns and then you go back to routes with stopping passenger, freight and shunting services.

    I am afraid TSW3 is looking like a major flop - I don't see how the core game is a step forward and the two new routes are some of the least interesting to date. It would have made more sense to spend more time polishing Spirit of Steam and including this as a new route in TSW3.
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not possible as the game is currently structured. Dependencies are locked in, with regard to older locomotives; future decoupling may in time make it possible to have only one version of an engine, but for the foreseeable future routes like MSB are going to require their own versions of locos be available.
     
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