Today's Kassel-würzburg Stream

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by solicitr, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The chat was brutal- unfairly so- but I think what was otherwise a fine stream was not helped by the fact that Lukas, as a presenter, really needs to slow down. Mouse, camera and even on-foot movement were all at a breakneck pace, making it really hard to follow, or to observe details.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I think the route looks great! The ICE 1 looks fun to operate and nice seeing dynamic weather in action.
     
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  3. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I didn’t look at the chat much, what was the brutality about?
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Mostly trolling
     
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  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree it did look good. High speed rail is not really my thing but I could be tempted.
     
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  6. hibiki

    hibiki Well-Known Member

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    I didn't watch everything, but the route does seem good. The weather feature did look good too, especially with the lightning.
     
  7. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

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    What happened with the LZB's emergency braking? It activated as the train went below the braking curve.
    How about PIS in the ICE 1? It reads Kassel-München when it should have been Hamburg-München.

    And for the love of god DTG please label your trains! It even took Lukas a few tries to guess which version of the BR 185 was the new one. Please.
     
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  8. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    The LZB Zwangsbremsung was definitely a bug.
     
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  9. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I started to have a headache at half the stream. Could barely finish watching it, and it is still hurting a bit.
    If they do it again I will for sure stop watching before it gets this far.
     
  10. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Shame the tech issues caused JD and Lukas to get thrown off early on, I think it put them under pressure and they were chasing time the rest of the stream.

    The route looked great, the shots of the train going over the viaduct in clear weather were stunning.

    But I think the stars of the show were the volumetric clouds which were well beyond my expectations and the dynamic weather which was just great to watch unfold.

    Shame the passengers were allergic to the BR 401 though, looked very lonely inside.
     
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  11. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    It’s about time DTG invest in a proper streaming setup, with capture cards to handle the inputs of game system and cameras, and a dedicated operator to manage sound levels and camera overlays. It’s not expensive, it’s not difficult, and would make the livestreams ten times more professional.

    [REMOVED - Alex - Directed Hate]
     
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  12. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    The dynamic weather makes a HUGE difference in terms of immersion. Seeing the weather start out in sunshine and naturally progress to light showers, heavy showers and thunderstorms was a sight to behold.

    I have wanted this feature since day 1 and over the moon to see it now implemented properly (in service mode)
     
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  13. i like trains

    i like trains New Member

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    This was an early service which, I believe, actually began in Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe.
    But the next stop on the display was München while it should have been Würzburg.
     
  14. juliplus#6089

    juliplus#6089 Active Member

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    They really should change the passenger density inside of the train
    In my opinion it really broke the immersion
     
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  15. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

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    It was the ICE 581 from Hamburg-Altona to München Hbf

    I realized I might be talking out of my ass here. Is the info displayed on the onboard PIS correct? See below video with timestamp.

     
  16. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    I don't claim to be an expert, but I understood the emergency braking was because Lukas was a bit too late on the brakes and couldn't keep within the braking curve, which ended with overspeeding (red on the HUD). The bug was the difficulty in getting LZB to release again.
     
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  17. i like trains

    i like trains New Member

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    Oh, nevermind then. Based on the real timetable, I assumed it was the ICE 781, which runs tomorrow (today) at the same time.
     

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  18. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I rewatched this part in the stream (from around 1.17.30). He still had AFB enabled while it was under LZB...in my mind, AFB should have been slowing it down below the braking curve....but when the penalty hit he slammed on the brakes but it was too late by then.

    Seems like a bug with AFB....if that is enabled, he should never have gotten hit with the penalty
     
  19. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to be too harsh, because I couldn't present a livestream! but, I am glad I was not the only one who was struggling to understand what was being send by Lukas, a combination of the accent, game sound and what seemed to be a low mike level / poorly placed mike.

    Very disappointing to see the same old track and shadow draw distance issues. Also that new UI still makes it impossible to work out what version of a loco you are selecting.
     
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  20. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I thought that Lukas did really well, but that obviously with a bit more experience he'll improve in some areas :) Would be good to see him on some more streams of German routes (but it's good to see Matt on some as well).
    I really like the new weather and lighting, although I still need to get used to the eye-adjustment I think. Also having the screens difficult to read when out of tunnels (or when in tunnels, depending on brightness) might get a little boring with 50 tunnels on the route (realism vs practicality I suppose).
    It was very interesting to see the new PZB HUD features. I might want to switch that part of the HUD off after a few goes though, I'll have to try it. It would have been good to see the DB BR 185.2 driving at nighttime, but I realise that they were in a hurry.
    Thanks DTG.
     
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  21. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I can’t wait to experience this route at night in a freight train moving in and out of the main as ICE services go by. Lukas also mentioned that freights move in convoys so your LZB will be active with traffic in front.

    I was also impressed with the scenery and night lighting.

    Finally, I like the new instrument screens on the ICE3.
     
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  22. Felix Costa

    Felix Costa Member

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    I want to try this route and "extended" SEHS too.
    One thing tha I missed is that there isn't Return to Free Roam anymore?
     
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  23. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    That would be a massive problem, at least for me, as this is one of the biggest advantages of TSW and it’s timetable mode…

    On another note: I think it’s disgraceful and disrespectful for some people on this forum to go on about someone’s accent! Especially in this case this had nothing to do with the problems understanding Lukas!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  24. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Saw the stream and at the end you actually see a MRCE BR182 with the container train. In the stream they were able to answer my question about the Nightjet.
     
  25. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It was a bit ill-conceived presentation. I suggest that the baptism of fire for another DTG employee is done in a less crucial battle. Lukas is a great guy - my objection concerns the decision itself. I would have fared even worse :)
     
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  26. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    Proper points with almost all the gear. Finally. Awesome, I had not anticipated that. Just lack the movable frog and its drive on the high speed crossings, but the additional equipment in the rest of the points is spot on. Very happy to see it. Lighting, model, weather, the route itself, details, eye adaptation all looked so good, I am very impressed. Draw distance still biggest concern but will wait and see when I get my hands on it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
  27. danistarwars

    danistarwars Active Member

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    Return to free roam was Still there
    Screenshot_20220819-090537_YouTube.jpg
     
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  28. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't decided about pre-ordering but now I am.

    - Lighting effects when entering tunnels seem off
    - Ligthning strikes in the near field to the camera to the point that once the camera seemed to hit one. They are also visible inside tunnels, not the line itself but the light it produces
    - The water ans snow on glass look like before, still bad
    - At the end station the 500 Hz magnet has not even triggered an event which Lukas seemed surprised about as well
    - The stutters were really annoying. I have them under control now via the ini file
    - Still no DX 12 or plans for it despite Xbox getting it quietly last year
    - Ambient oclussion should always offer a toggle at player's discretion together with an intensity level rather than hard coding. I noticed that it even happens when you change camera from the cab to outside an then back in...

    I appreciate them showing this though. Being honest to people, even by accident, is highly welcome.
    I'm going to pass on this offer until later on after launch.
     
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  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    What? If this is actually true this will unfortunately get a "no buy" from me..

    So after taking over a service on foot you cant go back in the free roam to take another service?

    Not going back to the menu all the time and take over trains after starting on foot was THE thing gave an immersing train driving experience to me. Also doing 3-4 services in one game without going back to menu.

    Cant immagine DTG would be that shortsighted to go back to ts classic gameplay wise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  30. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I liked the the way Lukas presented the route. The route looks quite OK to me, but I do not like the eye adaptation effect, probably it is to strong on a screen. I think the route will be boring soon. A lot of tunnels, LZB automating most of the work. As a route it feels much better than LGV, which is completely emty, but there fortunately the cruise control does not help you out on the steep 3.5% ramp.

    I saw Lukas had some trouble with AFB at some point, which caused AFB to turned off or reset to zero. The route clearly still has some bugs in the gameplay.

    For me this is not a must have, I would have preferred to see a historic German route.
     
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  31. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see the chat but I can't imagine it was all trolling. I was even more underwhelmed (even alarmed) by this stream than with the TSW3 announcement. TSW is going from bad to worse.
     
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  32. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Excellent news, thanks for clearing this up!
     
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  33. phillip.good

    phillip.good Well-Known Member

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    It was definitely there as I made a point of looking out for it when Lucas finished the service so don’t worry!
     
  34. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just watching it now after a night out drinking and I have motion sickness.
    So far I've noticed the game still suffers these random 62fps -25fps-62fps dips.

    Love the train and route from what I can see

    weird flash as you enter tunnels and there's hardly any people on trains
     
  35. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    What I liked about this first look:
    • The new UI is very nice, it looks leaps and bounds better than TSW 2's. The menu music is also very good to hear.
    • The overall lighting is very nice. Finally, daylight is bright and colourful and it gives some much needed fidelity to the overall picture. The sharp shadows in stations are also welcome. To me it seems to be more contrast in the scenes in sunny weather, which makes them seem more "alive".
    • The dynamic weather option is great, as long as it doesn't force a downpour on the player on every service, just to show "look what I can do". This is a common mistake in games with dynamic weather. Dynamic doesn't mean it needs to be changing all the time, especially not in an hour's time.
    What I didn't like:
    • The eye adaptation feature isn't working properly. Entering tunnels creates this sudden "flash" in the cab, then the tunnels need a lot of time to darken. It is very distracting, especially at such a route with high speed and lots of tunnels.
    • Performance is a concern: the framerate sunk to ~25-30 fps from 60 at the end of the route (Würzburg Station). Also, there are constant stutters with excessive frame times which is extremely distracting.
    • Some of the PBR lighting features seem off, like the wet surfaces towards the end of the stream, the light reflection made them look like it was snowy. This could also have been amplified by the stream quality, so I wouldn't draw immediate conclusions.
    • The UI has this small "chime" sound whenever a different menu item is highlighted. Probably not subtle enough - as Lukas browsed around the menus and services, it was a bit too much "brrrrrr" to hear.
    Looking forward to seeing the other two routes!
     
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  36. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the choice of trains in the menu, where there are multiple would it not make sense to put the newest variant first or some sort of date ?
     
  37. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I think Lukas was right when he said something about there needing to be a better way of differentiating between locos with the same/similar names. It took him about 3 goes to find the 185.2 that came with the new route.
     
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  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    1:09 into the stream I noticed we still have that strange effect whereby as you are in tunnel and see outside world it looks clear, then it’s like someone turns the rain switch on as you exit. Does this in the rain in station too, it’s like you don’t see the right weather from a tunnel or when parked in undercover stations.

    still watching the stream now though and liking the look of it
     
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  39. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Sure (it was at about 1:28:11 in the stream). But it would have been nice to have seen how the route looked at night when driving along, how the DB BR182.2 looked in those circumstances, and Lukas was about to explain the changes to LZB. Unfortunately they were stuck at a red light for a few minutes (deliberate feature and designed that way) and chat would probably have whinged if they'd waited.

    Is there any info about the LZB changes anywhere? Thanks.
     
  40. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I'm watching the recorded stream with headphones and actually can follow Lukas quite good (as a German I'm used to the accent). Thank you two for the stream, got a good first impression of what to expect
     
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  41. Observadorpt

    Observadorpt Active Member

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    Hi
    Nice streem indee, Ice looks fun, what i dont like is the same hud like tsw 2, looks like im playing tsw 2, i think it may have been improveed or be diferent. I hope they release a Video in 4k because the stream is a bit pixelated that makes appear like they are playing tsw 2020.
     
  42. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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    Hello everyone, I wanted to say thank you for sharing the feedback on the streams - we're using new systems and tools which can sometimes mean setting tweaks need to change live, even after a test run.

    I've been noting alot of the feedback from the gameplay shown as well, of course what we are showing is still a development build and we will have updates on some of the issues mentioned when we can.

    I must say, even for the comments showing critique on certain issues, this thread shows alot of great examples of how to give useful feedback in a very well mannered way, which is much appreciated and actually helps us collate the feedback easier. Thank you :)
     
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  43. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    All in all what was shown in the preview looks rather good to me, good work, especially on scenery and the ICE 1.

    I can't really judge the ICE 3 and BR 185.2 yet as we didn't see that much of them, I hope we can still see something about them before Early Access starts.

    I only noticed to medium sized problems that are bugging me. They won't be a dealbreaker but they will definitely decrease my personal enjoyment of the add on.
    1. The tunnel lighting didn't look that good when you enter the tunnel, I hope something can be done to improve this before (early access) release. Also when leaving a tunnel the misty effect needs some moments to appear which looks really strange.
    2. The PIS data looks pretty incomplete. The ICE Lukas was driving appears to begin in Kassel judging from what the PIS shows but in reality (and the service name also has that) it starts in Hamburg. We also saw a regional train (RE 17 to Hagen in Kassel) on the PIS, this train did not have any off world intermediate stops, only the termination stop was on there. I hope this isn't the case for all AI trains (or even worse - for player trains), I might be able to forgive that for the regional stuff but please add full intermediate stops to at least all the long distance (ICE, IC) services, playable and AI only.

    One thing I'm still a little bit unsure about: I hope the weather will not always change that fast from clear (or cloudy) to full rain and thunderstorm in a matter of around 30 minutes, if that happens from time to time it's totally fine for me but please not on a maority of the services.

    Now I'm really looking forward to the Training Center preview stream, let's see what you have to offer there.
     
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  44. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Improvements (More of this soft of thing):
    • The volumetric clouds pleasantly surprised me, I wasn't expecting them to work as well as they did. A real hands down improvement.
    • The dynamic weather was just stunning tbh, really makes a long route like this seem more real.
    • The UI overall does the job Sam laid out, it makes getting into the game easier, and it seems where it falls down is mostly in backend stuff the UI layout can't necessarily solve anyway (such as 5 different versions of the same train).
    • Whilst the lighting had issues, overall to me it was a much better blend of light and dark, the variation throughout the route was generally well balanced until the odd reflections showed up towards the end.
    • Night lighting looked good, trick of the lighting or not, it looked like the yard in the urban area at the end had substantially more ambient light than the isolated passing loop, and that made sense.
    • Sparks, hardly a game changer but they did look good and subtle and infrequent enough to be fairly exciting to witness, and when something makes this game more exciting, it is all the better for it.

    Shows potential (Getting there):
    • Whilst the eye-adjusting-effect on entering tunnels is marred by the flashing that accompanies it most of the time, the effect overall does what it is supposed to, even if a little slowly, without the flash it would be a very obvious improvement to the way the lighting adjust to tunnels at the moment.
    • Lightning. It looks good, but the bolts of lightning themselves seem more like ghostly apparitions in the middle of the screen, rather than huge kilometer-long forks far in the distance. They appeared as if right next to the train at several points.
    • Route-building. The fact this is the longest route in TSW, and yet seems to have suffered no obvious impact on quality, and in fact the bridges/viaducts were truly a joy to see, it gives me hope for other longer routes in future. Fair enough, they didn't exactly have to model big cities or extensive urban areas a la SEHS, but they did a good job.

    Opportunities for improvements (Avoid avoid avoid):
    • Passengers not wanting to get on the BR 401. It looked a bit sad to see nobody inside, especially given the out-of-service regional trains were packed to the rafters.
    • I assume if they made it this far with that flashing effect on entering tunnels, it is a problem they can't be overcome easily as everyone can clearly see it in nearly every tunnel, but some insight as to why this occurs and what if anything stands in the way of it being fixed would be welcome.
    • Hazy dry ice effect upon entering tunnels. Similar to above, I think this has been around since the dawn of time, but I'm still waiting for the 'Trains In Their Eyes' mini game this seems to be a feature created for :cool:
     
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  45. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    It looks like a LZB error, at 1:17:48 the AFB is precisely at the deceleration curve, but suddenly the distant speed reduction changes from 100 to 60kph (apparent at train dash), putting the speed above the curve, and then suddenly to 0, sealing the deal. You would have no chance to react to this, even if you would be driving without AFB.

    Yep, the same for me. I mean, it looks like a typical DTG release, nice overall, but with the typical DTG lack of polish, with potentially anoying bugs, like sudden LZB speed reduction that trigger emergency brakes, becasue you're already behind the curve. So, the typical DTG state 2 weeks before releae, so, no change of approach from DTG apparent there. I will buy it, if there good post launch support with nice frequency of bug fixing patches (including the return of savegame). But no preorder for me.

    Also the new lightning engine is ok at best. Like 13:30 in the stream, it's 7:20 in the morning, yet it looks like the people on the platform are illuminated by a freaking atomic bomb. Yes, you did all the values as there are in the real world, including lumens and color temperature, so the screen most likely looks correct... if it would have been taken by a camera (without any postprocessing), not as a human would see the scene. And the occasional flash of light followed by total darkness, when entering tunnel war really weird. But nice to see that alteast the shadows are a lot softer.
    But tbh, that is not really not a deal breaker for me... but the above lack of polish is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  46. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't bothered by issues on-stream, I do agree with the sprinting and jumping around looking here, there, zoom in, zoom out - but that comes with practice and it's not a big problem for me.

    I thought overall, there was loads to like from the stream, but the one thing I just couldn't help seeing throughout was the sleepers a few meters in front of the train drawing in constantly. It's obviously the same as TSW2, but unfortunately for me it stands out far more than volumetric clouds or even better lighting. It's the current low bar in the game, and I really hope they can find a way to raise it in future updates.

    That aside, it was great to see lots of the route, stations, etc. I'm looking forward to driving some of the shorter services while the save is worked on.
     
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  47. Felix Costa

    Felix Costa Member

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    Oh! Thank God!
    I missed that! Thanks
     
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  48. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I can’t really add anything extra and new that hasn’t been said above however I would like to say thank you for some longer routes and those viaducts and valleys looked superb.
    Please don’t make all these new features ones like Dresden night lighting that just disappear on any future routes.
     
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  49. 2martens

    2martens Well-Known Member

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    I've watched the stream and to illustrate the tunnel entry problem, I have created a clip of the stream: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTru_7LT-2Pb9lVvgFb13qa7O2XkqMhz9

    This shows in 5 seconds the exact problem many have mentioned during the stream in the chat and in here. Shortly after entering the tunnel, there seems to be an invisible blueish light source that the cab drives through which illuminates everything in the cab, just when you should see almost nothing.

    It seems to me that this light source is there to fake the eye adaptation to the sunlight upon exiting the tunnel. Why faking? I guess TSW3 does not use global illumination with realtime calculation of the light effects. Instead all lights are likely baked (as in: do not react to moving objects). This blue light seems to be a baked light source in the intensity of the sun, imitating the brightest point in the day.

    When you drive in darker conditions, however, the sun intensity goes down and therefore the eye needs to adapt less when entering/leaving the tunnel. This does not seem to be reflected in the game. In night driving through tunnels, there should not be any real adaptation necessary. So please show how it looks in those situations. If the blue light is there as well, this would confirm my theory.
     
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That's caused by a baked lighting issue. It's not caused by the eye adaptation.

    DTG Alex Is the team aware of the baked lighting issue at the ends of the tunnels and could it be fixed?
     
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