Route Hudson Line: New York–poughkeepsie

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by WonterRail, Aug 14, 2021.

  1. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Time to tackle another route that I think has the potential to make a great 'Rush Hour' style route. Today, we are going to be looking at another route set in the USA. Last time we were here, we looked at a section of the Northeast Corridor between New York and New Haven. This time however, we are going to be looking into a route that actually has one thing in common with that other route I talked about last time. You see, NEC New York – New Haven was a route set out of two of New York's biggest stations, New York Penn and Grand Central Terminal. The route I am about to talk about is also a route set out of two of New York's biggest stations, New York Penn and Grand Central Terminal! Quite funny how these routes can turn out right? But while the last was focused on a section of the NEC heading along the coast of Long Island Sound on the Connecticut side, this route is set going up the east side of the Hudson River along Metro-North's Hudson Line, all the way to Poughkeepsie

    But first...

    What he said in that post

    Now as always, if you want to see the rest of the routes that featured in that thread and also vote in the poll if you haven't already, do go check it out in the link here.

    Right, let's get into this route.

    The Route Itself

    Now I know it's another route set out of New York, but here me out on this one. When it comes to the discussion of bringing in more US passenger routes to TSW2, two types of routes always seem to stand out.
    1. Routes that adapt a section of the Northeast Corridor
    2. Routes set out of, or in and around New York
    There might routes that come close to those popular suggestions such as the lines out of Los Angeles, but for most part, most of other US passenger suggestions either don't quite offer the same level of traffic, or just don't have same large following as these two suggestions do. For example, two routes that featured on thread that both are set in Chicago, the BNSF railway and the Electric District, were both among the lowest voted routes on the poll, with the later route being the lowest voted of them all. Even with the option to vote for every route featured, It kinda says a lot about what peoples preferences are for routes that are more passenger oriented.

    But back onto this route, this would kinda serve as an extension onto the last route I talked about, as it is also set out of two of New York's biggest and busiest stations, New York Penn and Grand Central. It's just this time, we are taking a different direction to what that route took and while that route did have this operator feature a bit, this route would predominately feature the Metro-North Railroad. They are a subsidiary of MTA (short or the Metropolitan Transportation Authority) which operates many rail lines in and around New York, most noticeably being the New York City Subway and Long Island Rail Road (of which, part of the later is represented inn TSW2). In this case, Metro-North operates many services out of Grand Central Terminal, most noticeable services being the Harlem Line, the New Haven Line (which I talked about a bit last time) and the Hudson Line, which is what we are going to be talking about today.

    As always, I have made a map of the route to give you an idea of what I think this route would look like in TSW2, so without further ado, here it is.

    Map of the Whole Route
    Hudson Line 1.PNG
    Section between New York Penn/Grand Central and Spuyten Duyvil (With lines to Sunnyside Yard and Harlem River & Oak Point Yards
    Hudson Line 2.PNG
    Section between Riverdale & Philipse Manor
    Hudson Line 3.PNG
    Section between Croton-Harmon & Garrison
    Hudson Line 4.PNG
    Section between New Hamburg & Poughkeepsie
    Hudson Line 5.PNG

    Going over some facts, the total length of the route you see here is 94.6 miles (152.3 km). Breaking down that length, it includes the main route between Grand Central and Croton-Harmon (72.7 miles or 117 km), the Empire Connection down to New York Penn (10.4 miles or 16.7 km), the Oak Point Link down to both Harlem River and Oak Point Yards (4.7 miles or 7.5 km) and an additional 6.9 miles (11.1 km) that make up some additional depots and yards along the route including down to Sunnyside Yard and up to the yard at Poughkeepsie. Speaking of which, this route also features 31 stations, 3 passenger depots (Sunnyside Yard, Highbridge Facility & Croton-Harmon MTA Depot) and 4 freight yards (Oak Point, Harlem River and Croton West & Poughkeepsie yards).

    Now when talking about this route, it is really divided into two parts, the electrified sections up to Croton-Harmon and the diesel only section that travels all the way to Poughkeepsie. The electrified part would probably be the busiest part of the route, especially in the section out of Grand Central with so many trains coming in and out of the station every hour and this kinda continues even when going alongside the Hudson River. But after Croton-Harmon, thing begin to calm down as it's usually only one diesel powered Metro-North service that runs on this part every hour at a off-peak time. But on the plus side, the route is actually quite scenic as travelling along the river side would offer a great view out towards the west side of the river which would also provide a big test for this game to see whether you would able to see all the way to the other side. Also, one other thing I noticed about the top section of the route is that there are these two stations, Manitou and Breakneck Ridge, that don't really have much of the platform. They are only served by a few Metro-North services a day and are only used by hikers to access the nearby state parks on both the Hudson Highlands and Breakneck Ridge. There's actually another one of these stations on the Harlem Line, Appalachian Trail, which provides access to the trial of the same name, but still, seeing these stations would be fun sight to see on this route seeing trains stop at a very small platform.

    Now you have noticed this by now, but the route includes a couple of elements that also featured in the last US route I did, such as Harlem River and Oak Point yards, Grand Central Terminal and also New York Penn and the section down to Sunnyside Yard. Now at point, as I've brought this part up quite a bit already, you're probably wandering, how does New York Penn connect onto the Hudson Line? Well, this is via section know as the West Side Line, also known as the Empire Connection. Beginning at New York Penn, the route starts by going down a single track tunnel which takes it under West Side Yard, before the tunnel expands to a two-lane track and continues that way to the tunnel exit near Morningside Heights, directly alongside the West Side Highway, which in turn is directly alongside the Hudson River. From there, the route continues heading north along the riverside until joining the Metro-North line at Spuyten Duyvil, but not before crossing the bridge just before joining the main route. This section usually used by Amtrak trains, connecting onto the Empire Corridor which is what this route is apart of, but I'll talk about what trains are when we get to what locos would be featured with this route. The reason this section is feature here is quite simple, if it wasn't, Amtrak services would have to start at Yonkers which is located quite a way away from where they turn off, so like with other routes I have suggested before, having this section gives these services a decent place to start and would also take advantage of Sunnyside Yard in order to these services to turn around once reaching the end of the line.

    Another section that would make a reappearance is the section around Harlem River and Oak Point Yards, via a section known as the Oak Point Link, which joins onto the route at Highbridge. This section would be used by freight services operated by CSX, which operates a handful of freight services out of here along the Hudson Line and also takes advantage of the yard at Croton West, but again, we will tackle how freight would work on this route later on.

    In the meantime however, lets have some real-life pictures!

    Pictures of the route in real-life

    Now the sections that are either already in the game or that I've touched upon before won't be featuring much in this part of the suggestion, but I will rather be focusing on the new sections that would feature with this route, or a different perspective on a section that I have already touch upon

    Grand Central Terminal (Platform Level)
    [​IMG]
    Harlem River Lift Bridge
    [​IMG]
    Spuyten Duyvil (and Bridge)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Yonkers
    [​IMG]
    Tarrytown
    [​IMG]
    Ossining
    [​IMG]
    Croton-Harmon
    [​IMG]
    Manitou
    [​IMG]
    Breakneck Ridge
    [​IMG]
    Poughkeepsie

    [​IMG]

    Available Locos

    Now I'm going to reveal something here. I have actually made a slight change to the locos available with this route since I first wrote this back for the thread at the beginning of July. Don't worry, I haven't removed any locos, but I have added one new loco to the roster as a response to the events that have taken place since I first wrote that. But I'll touch upon it more when we get there. For now though, let's talk about the locos that are still here from the last time I talked about this route.

    GE P32AC-DM

    The first loco, and probably the star loco of this route, is one that I feel is long due to come to TSW2 at some point. This loco is part of Genesis series of locomotives and is designed to run on both diesel and electric power via the third rail along this route, with was added to these locos in order to allow them to operate into New York where diesel emissions through the enclosed terminal sections are prohibited. For this route, this loco would actually come in two different liveries, which in turn, would also come with their own collection of rolling stock, but would both have one thing in common. They would be the only passenger locos capable of running the entire length of the route.

    Metro-North Livery with Shoreliner III Coaches+Cab Car
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The first livery variant is of course, the Metro-North livery. These would operate the diesel-hauled services on this route using the Shoreliner III Coaches and Cab Car that would travel all the way to Poughkeepsie, where they would terminate as it's the limit for Metro-North services on this route.

    Amtrak Livery with Amfleet Coaches
    [​IMG]
    The other livery variant would be the Amtrak livery. These would be locos that would take charge of services out of New York Penn using the Amfleet coaches that we currently have in the game. These services operate all the way to Poughkeepsie, but then these services would go beyond the boundaries of the route out towards Albany, which is where the loco is changed from this variant to another variant of the Genesis series which takes the train out towards wherever these trains are going. To run down the services that these locos operate, and subsequently where they go to, they are:
    • Empire Service (Towards Niagara Falls)
    • Maple Leaf (Towards Toronto)
    • Adirondack (Towards Montreal)
    • Ethan Allen Express (Towards Rutland)
    • Lake Shore Limited (Towards Chicago and also joins up with another segment coming from Boston at Albany)
    The majority of these services make two stops along this route, one at Yonkers and another at Croton-Harmon, except for the Lake Shore Limited, which would only make one stop at Croton-Harmon on the way out of New York. These services are also quite frequent with a few Amtrak services a day, happening on an hourly to two-hourly basis, providing some faster express services to this route.

    Metro-North M7A
    [​IMG]
    Probably what is the mainstay of this route, these units are basically the same as the ones currently available with Long Island Rail Road, with a few minor differences. The main one obviously being the livery with these having a blue front with white stripes, but they also have a few minor technical differences which include using under-running third-rails (As in the shoes collect the electricity from under the rail rather than the over-running third-rails of those that operate on the LIRR) and they don't have illuminated number boards, while the LIRR units do. These would take charge of the grand majority of the services on this route, but would only be limited to the electrified section as far as Croton-Harmon and would also provide some AI Harlem Line traffic in this first section between Grand Central and Harlem-125th Street.

    Metro-North M3A
    [​IMG]
    As we also do have this in TSW2 as well, as it is a loco add-on for Long Island Rail Road, it would make sense to also include this loco with this route to. These, like with previous loco that I have just mentioned, would also be exactly like the ones currently available with some minor differences and would support the M7A on the electric services out of Grand Central towards Croton-Harmon. Or for short, pretty much doing the same as what those locos already do.

    CSX EMD SD40-2
    [​IMG]
    Now here's the loco that I have added to the roster since the first time I talked about this route. Now when handling the freight services on this route, I originally decided it would just be an additional layer using Sand Patch Grade using the locos and freight cars available with that route, but after seeing the preview streams for Boston Sprinter and seeing that Sand Patch Grade only adds stuff in the yards, but no additional services, I decided to include at least one freight loco with this route. You see, the reason that there are no freight services on that route is because non of the Sand Patch locos have in-cab signalling, which is needed for operating on the section of the NEC which is represented on that route. For this route, I don't know much about the signalling systems on this route, but I would imagine it would be quite similar as it is a busy main line coming out of two major terminal stations, so rather be safe than sorry and throw a freight loco into this route just in case.

    As for the loco in question, it is the SD40-2. This would come with a few minor differences to the headlights and also come in the YN3 livery. These would operate freight services out of Oak Point and Harlem River Yards out towards both Croton West Yard and all the way to Poughkeepsie Yard which is located just beyond the end station of the same name. For simplicity, the freight cars they would operate with would be the same as the ones in NEC: New York – New Haven, which in turn are the same as the ones featured in NEC: New York. For those who don't what they are, these include:
    • 50ft Plate C Boxcar in CSX Livery
    • 5201-Cubic Foot Covered Car with CSX logos
    • 30,500 Gallon Tank Car
    • 73ft Center-Beam Flatcar
    • 85ft Open Deck Flat Car
    These services usually operate at night, but some do run on a rare occasion during the day and there would also be switching services featured at the three main freight yards featured along this route to keep this section of the timetable interesting when there are no freight services running on the main route.

    Additional AI Traffic

    One thing that would also greatly enhance the traffic levels on this route is additional AI traffic from other routes, especially at New York Penn which would otherwise look empty without. To go through what those AI services would consist of, they are:
    • Amtrak ACS-64 (From either the upcoming Boston Sprinter or from the New York – New Haven suggestion I made last time) this would add AI Northeast Regional services around New York Penn
    • Metro-North M2 (From the NEC: New York – New Haven suggestion) this would add a couple of New Haven services coming out of Grand Central
    • LIRR M3 & M7 (Long Island Rail Road and the subsequent loco add-on) both of these would add AI LIRR traffic around New York Penn.
    All of these would greatly contribute to make the route a little bit busier and livelier than what they would be without. Not so much around Grand Central as that section is probably already quite busy with the stock available with the route, but definitely around New York Penn as, like I said, only one train that comes with the route uses that section and without any additional AI traffic from other routes, it would probably be quite an empty station.

    Future Loco Add-Ons

    Now with all the locos that this route has to offer, you have to asking, are there any other locos that could be added to this route in the future? Trust me, I have had a long thought about this, but I managed to think up of one, and funnily enough, it just so happens to be for the freight section of this route.

    CSX NRE 3GS21B
    [​IMG]
    This loco did actually feature with the route when it came out on TS Classic and while it wouldn't come with the route at release, it would come later via a loco add-on. These loco actually on three engines in order to reduce diesel emissions, fuel consumption and maintenance costs. They are mainly used on many railroads across the US, including this one. When coming to this route, they would sub into the existing freight services provided by the SD40-2, but also add some new freight services using a new freight car that would come with this loco, for which I put forward this 14' 5'' high Gondola as the car in question as it has been seen on freight trains on this route.
    [​IMG]

    Conclusion

    You know, even if New York – New Haven got more votes than this route, I would actually rather see this route than that route. The reason I say this route I feel has the potential to offer quite a lot more than what that route would offer. It makes much more use out of Grand Central compared to the other route, features at least one new loco compared to most of the locos on that route being reused or slight modifications, has an entire second half that is purely diesel power and even the freight part of this route is a lot larger and a lot more integrated into this route compared to the small section of what the other route offers. Plus, it actually quite scenic route as well. Like it said, it is mostly set alongside the East Side of the Hudson River, looking out over towards the West Side, which would also provide a big test for this game to see how far you can see over towards the other side. But most importantly, this route would have Metro-North be a prominent selling point of this route. Yes the other US route I talked about does have Metro-North feature, but it isn't quite a large selling point as this route I feel as that routes main selling point would be the Amtrak services on that route. All in all, another route that has the potential to make a great 'Rush Hour' style route that would bring us slightly closer to completing the main railroad companies running out of New York.

    If you have any ideas for this route, or you feel like there's something that can be done differently with this route, feel free to leave a reply down below.

    That's all from me and I'll see you for the next route.

    Image Sources:
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  2. pacificorca#1435

    pacificorca#1435 Active Member

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    Definitely a big fan of this one, although I'm partial to the freight-only River subdivision on the west bank of the Hudson. The dual mode locomotives are really fascinating and the route definitely has room for a variety of services.
     
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  3. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    The Hudson Line is definitely my first choice for a new passenger route in the game. I just really like the Metro-North trains, and the Hudson Line seems like a fun route to be on, with it being right next to the Hudson River. It just seems like an awesome route, and would be the perfect choice in a second attempt at a new route in New York (as I would assume that DTG has improved a lot since the release of the Long Island Railroad).
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Time to bring this Classic Metro-North Route from TS21 into TSW 2. Speaking of Metro-North M3s those have 2004-2007 M7A seats which replaced the original 1983 seats because the M3 was ordered for Southeast-North White Plains Electrification at 750v DC Third Rail Bottom Contact. If you want a Passenger DLC Locomotive/ EMU Metro-North M1A 1973-1977 builds or M9A 2021-2024. M3A is 1981-1984 for the electrification project Harlem Line which branches off after 125th Street Station. The signaling system is PTC scheduled to be completed by the end of 2020 or activated by 2021. Check the MTA State of New York video on PTC Positive Train Control
     
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  5. mlouie100

    mlouie100 Well-Known Member

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    Also include the service to Poughkeepsie where players can drive the diesel powered passenger train services to that stop and possibly could have the full 74 mile commuter railroad line.
     
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  6. subzero169

    subzero169 Member

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    I suggested this earlier of the month
     
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  7. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I want this also with the full 60 miles How it was in Train Simulator
     
  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I rather have the full Metro North Hudson Line. The full line goes to Poughkeepsie, not Croton Harmon. The Metro North P32s would go to Poughkeepsie since the line north of croton harmon isn't electrified. The p32s also run express services along the line from Harlem 125st to Croton Harmon compared to the M7s and M3s. Luckily there was a mod in the steam workshop that extended the line in ts2021 to Poughkeepsie and with the new tech, i don't think it would be impossible to include the entire Hudson line from Grand Central to Poughkeepsie

    I've actually used this line quite a bit recently to head to Tarrytown from the city to get a bus to the Palisades Center Mall in Upstate New York. Riding the train along the hudson is quite beautiful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  9. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to address this.

    The thing is the routes that I put up in that thread taking about potential 'Rush Hour' style routes is that when talking about the routes that came from TS Classic, I wanted to try to stay true to what those routes were, such in this case, where the TS Classic version of this route only came with the section up to Croton-Harmon. But at the same time, I also want to add parts to routes that maybe the original routes didn't think up of at the time to really enhance them and get so much more out of them. I already did this with South London Network by not only including the obvious places like London Victoria, London Bridge, West Croydon, Crystal Place and more, but also expanding the route eastwards to places such as Bromley South, Lewisham and the line to Hayes.

    But if there's one thing I've learnt throughout doing this is that there are some routes on TS Classic that either wouldn't work well in TSW2 in their TS Classic state or would work better if they were extended for a couple more miles, and besides, with route suggestions (or any such suggestion), you can kinda think outside the box and be more ambiguous to what a normal TSW2 add-on turns out like, and this is one such case.

    I had some time to think and work out whether this would be possible, but I have decided to update this suggestion and extend the route all the way to the Hudson Line's true terminus at Poughkeepsie, which adds another 38.9 miles (62.7 km) to the route, as it would allow more variety of services rather than just being New York to Croton-Harmon from either terminal all the time, and to also get the most out of the diesel locos that would be available with this route. I have also added a few more pictures of some of the new locations that have been added to this suggestion.

    Plus, this has also given me the opportunity to decide what freight car would come with a potential 3GS21B add-on, but I'll let you find that out for yourselves.
     
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  10. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    This is a good route
     
  11. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The Genset can work on Sand Patch Grade Cumberland Hump yard
     
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  12. lachlan smith

    lachlan smith Active Member

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    i would like to see another New york route in train sim world 2 in future
     
  13. Mateiule

    Mateiule Active Member

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    It's only 33mi to Croton-Harmon, it's 72mi to Poughkeepsie. You may want to make that correction! Otherwise, great suggestion!
     
  14. lachlan smith

    lachlan smith Active Member

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    l hope we see the hudson line this year or maybe next year if we are luckly
     
  15. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I hope we’ll see the metro north Hudson line up to Poughkeepsie New York next year to maybe it’ll will be announced on the roadmap before Christmas of 2022.
     
  16. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I was about to make the Hudson line Suggestion and saw this one that was put together with lots of detail information. It has received 22 likes . This route is very scenic scenic and busy, It has best of both worlds. Has plenty of Diesel action with Metro north, Amtrak, CSX, and other freight services. Some visuals for reference from TSC. It features in a book I was given called Amazing Train Journeys (Lonely Planet, October 2018) and after the two-hour trip from NYC to the final Metro-North stop at Poughkeepsie it is easy to see the Hudson Line earned its place in a book featuring 60 of the world's most scenic rail routes.Oct 26, 2022. The map from TSC only goes to Croton- Harnon which DTG might make the route only up to here which is about 30 miles in length
    upload_2023-8-28_7-59-12.png
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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  17. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Mastery reward for the route if made is the lit up Tappan Zee Bridge which some newscasters call the Mario Cuomo Bridge. For me I just use Tappan Zee Bridge. In the future someone should make the bridge and put train tracks on it which is an electrified Port Jervis line
     
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  18. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Next time I’m NY will ride it. After living there 20 years never did. I did go on the new bridge and the view is just stunning
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on that one end I was up there in April and coming this Wednesday and Thursday the George Washington Bridge is visible on the southbound side Northbound side towards Albany and Montreal start of the Hudson River Highlands. Northern section of the route you end up following the CSX river line on the opposite side which itself ends in a Hump Yard Selkirk
     
  20. Woroszyl The NS 2000

    Woroszyl The NS 2000 Well-Known Member

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    This is still needed, even if it was suggested back in TSW2 times!
     
  21. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    You included a PTC video . Great!!. Also a great video of railfainning ad the hudson line also might be able to hear train horns from the CSX river line across the husdon

     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
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  22. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    No problem at all and DTG can merge Hudson and Harlem lines as a single route by setting the common origin point to Grand Central terminal. AI CSX River Line these require Sand Patch Grade Cumberland Maryland Yard or the newer Cajon Pass HSC and Sherman Hill routes.
     
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  23. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    The Hudson line is a treat to ride. I rode it yesterday between Beacon and University Heights. The devs did a great job creating it for TSC but was officially cut short at Croton Harmon. Someone on the steam workshop extended it up to Albany but would be nice to see DTG create the route between Grand Central and Poughkeepsie, also featuring Penn Station and Amtrak's west side line through upper Manhattan. I would quickly purchase this route if it gets created one day for TSW. It should include the M7A, M3A, P32AC-DM with shoreliners, amfleets, view liners II, and the CSX engines
     
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  24. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    If we one day have all three east of Hudson Metro North routes merged, that would be the ultimate DLC
     
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  25. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Another not if but when route. We'll see when it come.

    Also on a side note, even though cab signals are non existent currently, would like to see CSX's modern wide cabs on the route as well.
    marblehillhist9.jpg
     
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  26. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Marbel Hill station in the Bronx. Great looking picture. Seems to be around late september/ early October by the color of the trees
     
  27. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Yup, definitely around that time
     

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