Will Dtg Ever Go 'international?'

I have worked in the music industry and have released records myself both as an artist (and in a minor capacity) as part of a small record company and I know how these things work. It was a mutual collaboration in this case that arose organically by the artists and was then promoted to make money and raise the profile of two artists across the board but it doesn’t need to be over analysed here on this forum as it was just a secondary example from replies to my first excellent analogy, and the exact way it happened is not relevant. If DTG approach a third party or more likely a third party approach DTG (like Run DMC approaching Aerosmith or their management or whoever - will the analogy ever end?) the end result is a Japanese route or a Spanish route or whatever. The way the ideas are formulated and way money changes hands are of no concern of the player who enjoys the resulting route. By themselves though DTG have no obligation to make routes from anywhere they don’t currently choose to.

 

Well if you worked in the music industry why are you comparing an artist to a game studio? A game studio is like a music label, like the people who tell the Rolling Stones that they should make a hip hop record. Comparing The Stones to DTG is utter nonsense and makes no sense. I'm telling you this as a label owner and an artist

 

Could imagine dtg trying to implement the bogie swap on the transibirian would be a nightmare. Would be good to see though.

 

No need to make things even more complicated for DTG. They can stay within their comfort zone and use Standard Track Gauge. Still gives them plenty of possibilities, I guess it's called "standard" for a reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-gauge_railway

 

Lol I know what standard gauge is. Problem is that if you venture beyond the USA, UK and parts of Europe they don't use standard gauge. Maybe the reason behind dtg's reluctance to head into these territories.

I'm sure it was all third party stuff that brought us narrow gauge on tsc.

 

You sure?

The article I linked includes a nice table that shows all the places where standard gauge is use, and several of these locations are definitely outside of USA, UK (which is a part of Europe) and parts of Europe (which includes UK).

No it isn't. They haven't even ventured within the parts of Europe that definitely use standard gauge for their countries national rail network.

Arosa Linie is the only narrow gauge route for TSW so far, and yes, it was developed by a third party who's not afraid to step outside of their comfort zone. Unlike DTG...

 

I think you may be taking this a little too seriously and reading too much into the specific examples I used. It was an analogy not a comparison. Different things.

 

even as an analogy it doesn't make sense. If fans of the Stones would demand hip hop the Stones would make hip hop but fans of an artist don't ask an artist to switch genre. That's not how music works.

And also; it's not that we are asking DTG to make a race game or a FPS

 

Standard gauge 4 foot 8 and 1/2 inches a number that's stuck in my head. Used primarily by the British when mainland Europe used a number of different gauges mainly due to reasons of security. I.e concerns that a neighbouring country could use the railways to transport troops and equipment in an invasion. Don't hold me to this because its a very vague memory but I'm sure even the USA adopted a different gauge in the early days. A lot of railways are standard gauge these days but there's also a lot of railways that don't use standard gauge.

I have not got the Arosa line but now I'm interested in this route.

 

Same thing with Spain too although you are going to use a Talgo Gauge Changer. From HSR and France 1.435m Gauge to 1.668m non high speed network.

 

I believe in the US most of the railroads in the Northern States used standard gauge, while most of the Southern states had a mix match of different gauges. This had an effect I believe during the American Civil War.

Post that, most of the US used standard gauge aside from the routes that required either 2ft or 3ft narrow gauge.

 

This has been my biggest gripe with DTG. The day another company comes out with a train simulator which has the functions and graphics of TSC and TSW, plus routes from not only the same old so-called "big three", I will leave this in a heartbeat. I have come to the conclusion that DTG has no interest in expanding outside of their niche group of countries. So be prepared for more UK, Germany, and US routes for the foreseeable future. These guys will never change in this regard. Their stubborn reluctance opens the door of opportunity for another company to offer what the people really want.

Imagine if Microsoft got back into the game and treated train sim the same was as they have with flight? One can only dream, but you never know.

 

I agree with this post 100%.

UK/US/DE is their biggest market only because DTG only targeted them. They never cared for expansion beyond their simple cash-cow. Too many excuses. Thinking about the future, am I to be excited about collecting future releases for the next few years knowing 99% of them will be the same old thing? I so wish someone else would come along so those of us who have interests in more than just the same three countries will have something to invest in.

 

We can dream!

 

Going outside of the "big three" can carry significant time and investment as the DTG team may need to build a new signalling system, or at least heavily modify one of the existing ones.

Beyond that, it comes down to sales numbers and viability. This is already a small niche (trains) within a small nice (sims) and within this niche we already have a sizable population that has no interest in routes outside of their preferred area. Ie. Germans who only will play German routes, or American freight fans who will only drive US or Canadian freight routes, or Brits who only want British routes. US/UK/German routes sell reliably well because these are the three biggest markets and people are generally more willing to buy a route that replicates their home country or region than elsewhere.

Even going back to TS Classic/TS20XX, DTG themselves rarely produced routes outside of the big three, with the exception of the French high speed line, just like in TSW. All of the Japanese, Swiss, Austrian, etc. routes were from third party devs.

I think it's highly unlikely DTG would start to expand outside of the "big three" while there are still so many highly in demand routes within that sphere. It makes more business sense, as it always has, for them to partner with third parties for other international routes.

 

I’m going to stop conversing with you now as you are reading way too much into this, still treating the analogy as a comparison, picking it apart, and not really understanding the point. This isn’t an inquest into how analogy works, how accurate it needs to be to illustrate a simple point and it certainly has nothing to do with how the music industry or music in general works. The one big point you have been missing while you delve into the minutiae and dissect potential meanings of the wonderfully lighthearted quote of mine is that this is about people thinking there is an obligation for someone to do something when they don’t have that obligation to anyone. I know how music works, I know fans don’t ask bands to change genre, you are going way too deep into it. Don’t ever go to a comedy gig, hardly anything will stand up to your level of scrutiny and you will forget to laugh. “But why would those three people of different nationalities be walking into that pub in the first place? It doesn’t make sense” etc. etc. I’m done

 

And that's why I keep answering. It all comes down to paying customers should remain silent and just swallow everything that's get offered. You have tried that argument with an analogy that doesn't stick. And again you try an analogy that doesn't stick. Why would one ask the question why those three different nationalities go to one pub? Pubs are filled with different nationalities (at least in my country) so why would someone doubt this could happen.

That said, I probably never would go to comedy gig where the comedy is x, x and x walk into a bar.

 

Well that’s one thing we can agree on, me neither!

 

In their eyes they are international. They do the south of england and the north of england.

 

We're all a little sated with the narrowness of TrainSim's world view.
Just how many more German red routes do we need, or UK emus?

Now that the Covid threat is receding we may be pleasantly surprised in the future.
The options for travel and research can no longer be used as a viable excuse.

 

I would be happy with a route from Austria and a proper Taurus loco for start.

 

I absolutely agree with you and for DTG they should use Aachen Hbf as starting point for International routes HRR Duisburg Hbf towards Utrecht in the Netherlands.

 

Which version exactly? 4 Pantographs 1.95m AC DC 1.45m Italy Slovenia Copper also safe on SNCF 25kv 50hz wires ÖBB Baureihe 1216 182 cousins the 1016 1116. Yet in real life it is simply treated as a normal PZB through running because ÖBB in the 1960s went for PZB with Salzburg München Line. Changes RRO RSN Köln Aachen since you have a chance of using ÖBB 2070 OHLE equipped sidings 1063 1064 1163. In return 204 363 G6 can roam Wien Kledering Salzburg Gnigl Villach Süd Hall in Tirol and Linz

 

Then explain Miss You, from the Some Girls album. That was the Stones doing disco, just because it existed.

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BTW the Walk This Way cover was the brainchild of Rick Rubin, who was producing RDMC at the time. He heard the song as proto-rap and thought a hip-hop cover would be a good idea, even though the band had never heard it (never even heard of Aerosmith). Then during licensing negotiations, Rubin invited Tyler and Perry to participate- a genius idea, really, because the record became a crossover hit on two charts.

 

That’s the Rolling Stones equivalent of DTG making a french high speed route because the kids like high speed. Probably.

I know Rubin made it all happen. After I was challenged by a response that suggested that if Rolling Stones fans wanted them to do hiphop that they would make some (the exact point I was saying would not happen) I quickly came up with the most famous example (ie I knew about it and others would too) of a rock music plus hiphop collaboration to represent DTG working with third parties to create routes from other countries. I didn’t expect the mechanics of how that came into existence to even enter into it. That wasn’t part of the analogy. However it happened the two groups worked together to make something music lovers enjoyed. Such a good record and one of only a handful by either artist that I like.

 

Never mind all this european nonsense. Australia has some really good routes and rolling stock, begging to be modelled. Doubt DTG would even look at them though, because they are all much much longer than 10 miles end to end.

 

I think DTG would first have to master the art of routebuilding upside down.

 

Never mind all this Australian nonsense. Europe has some really good routes and rolling stock, begging to be modelled.

 

I agree with IKB there are some great Aussie routes. Coals to Newcastle was one of the MSTS/OR classics and there’s are guy in Trainz who has created a substantial part of the NSW network which can be joined as modules. There are loads of scenic routes in Oz, plenty in NSW but also up the Gold Coast and of course the famous line from Cairns to Kuranda which then continues off into the outback towards Forsayth. On the western side Perth hasa great electrified suburban network which would be ideal in TSW. And you could go retro and include the zig zag railway up the hill from. Midland to Kalamunda and beyond.

 

My aunt is a dispatcher in oz. Its not all just open country with nothing to look at. Can't see why dtg have never gone that route, unless they're scared of all the critters?

 

If dtg want proof, look they even have real train stations!

 

DangerousDave is right - Melbourne has an extensive metro network - and varied scenery.
And also - "In their eyes they are international. They do the south of england and the north of england." - they really did go international in TSC - they took the GWR route to Swansea

 

As a Japan fan, I would already switch over to Densha de GO if they would release it to PC. Sadly I'm not going to buy a PlayStation just for one or two games.

 

This train looks awesome and also funny. It looks like a mashup of a German train with an American train. Interesting!

 

Correct and for that Adelaide 4000 series EMU it has a 1.067m cousin model the Transperth B Series Queensland Early 2010s IMU SMU. I did make a Transperth route suggestion the Mandurah Line and as a matter of fact my mum's sister lives 10 Minutes by walking to the nearest railway station which is Mandurah Line Wellard Stop.

 

Even if it would be, it's even better - less the scenery to be generated, less stuttering and other performence issues

 

Sorry but just No to another red emu!
Even if it's Australian.
A little diversity please.

 

? It's got red stripes, its mostly silver.

 

You sound like some one that knows Australian trains?

An ideas on this one please?

 

As a long-term TS/TSW player... Personally, rather than rushing it... they should get the basics right and that's being demonstrated in TSW3. Australia is complicated with each state having their own rules and regulations on signalling... it's not that simple in the modern era.

I would recommend DTG take their time before expanding into Melbourne's vast network, as it is complicated with various signalling, architecture (stations-wise) and not to mention 'Gauntlet' outside Southern Cross Station. In other words, it would likely take over a few years to understand the railway operations in Melbourne...

It certainly doesn't help with the lack of materials put online as they are housed in the State Governments hands or the Public Records Office of Victoria which is still digitalising their collection (expected to take years).

That being said, Metro's internal HCMT driver simulator is based on LIDAR (360* camera) technology.

 

All these exotic regions being suggested, DTG haven't even set one foot in Wales yet! Doesn't get more exotic than that

 

Never mind new countries, I am just trying to figure out which of this forum's newly revealed music industry professionals is Pete Waterman in disguise

 

That is an Adelaide 3000 series DMU. I have been on CityRail Sydney L, R, S V, and T sets. On the V sets if DTG makes a Sydney CityRail Route some passengers can stand behind the Drivers Cab which I did on DKM 8143 1989 Build V Set Granville to Paramatta September 2002 alongside my Cousin who lives in NSW.
For International Routes DTG should do Germany to Belgium L37 Aachen Liege followed by Germany to The Netherlands Duisburg-Utrecht 156 km.

Spoiler: Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht complexities

Zevenaar Emmerich Section uses ETCS Level 2 25kv 50 hz Emmerich Am Rhein Duisburg/Mulheim Styrum if merged with HRR PZB 15kv 16.7 hz Zevenaar Utrecht 1.5kv DC ATB EG NG. DB BR1429 needs to be trivoltage RE19 and run HRR S3 Oberhausen Essen Steele Ost if both were merged. Freight is DB BR189 some are C-Akv coupler equipped making them P brakes on Riesa Dresden Hannover Kassel Wurzburg Dresden Chemnitz

 

DTG say they do UK routes so where is Wales and N. Ireland? I'd love a Swansea to Didcot route but I'm biased. But DTG don't you think you have London and the South East covered now?

 

All the clues are there.

Spoiler: I am not he

My involvement in the music industry is extremely small compared to PW. And I don’t know as much as he does about trains.

 

‘Never mind new countries, I am just trying to figure out which of this forum's newly revealed music industry professionals is Pete Waterman in disguise ‘
Like two frogs in a puddle, which is more inflated

That said we have been agitating for a wider selection of routes for a long time now.
The message has surely gotten through.

Italy is crying out for a route and I’m sure a research team would welcome the chance to visit in person.

 

Mr Waterman is too busy to be here right now. He's currently working on "Making Tracks 3"... A 1:1 replica of the country spanning 12000 meters.

 

With LGV, DTG already have a bunch of French assets and obviously some sort of licensing arrangement with the SNCF, so why the heck have we not seen any more French routes (it’s not exactly a million miles away from Chatham)? I think they would be very popular; the French countryside is beautiful, and a “nez cassé” wending it’s way through valleys and vineyards would be most pleasant.

 

I agree and how about the nez casse crossing into Germany from France like Strasbourg Appenweier Metz Forbach Saarbrücken. As a matter of fact Nez Casse SNCB HLE18 Alstom did run on Schnellfahrstrecke Köln Aachen

 

There is that mix German/French route that released on TSC not to long ago, that could be a good start I guess....