Will Dtg Ever Go 'international?'

Standard gauge 4 foot 8 and 1/2 inches a number that's stuck in my head. Used primarily by the British when mainland Europe used a number of different gauges mainly due to reasons of security. I.e concerns that a neighbouring country could use the railways to transport troops and equipment in an invasion. Don't hold me to this because its a very vague memory but I'm sure even the USA adopted a different gauge in the early days. A lot of railways are standard gauge these days but there's also a lot of railways that don't use standard gauge.

I have not got the Arosa line but now I'm interested in this route.

 

Same thing with Spain too although you are going to use a Talgo Gauge Changer. From HSR and France 1.435m Gauge to 1.668m non high speed network.

 

I believe in the US most of the railroads in the Northern States used standard gauge, while most of the Southern states had a mix match of different gauges. This had an effect I believe during the American Civil War.

Post that, most of the US used standard gauge aside from the routes that required either 2ft or 3ft narrow gauge.

 

This has been my biggest gripe with DTG. The day another company comes out with a train simulator which has the functions and graphics of TSC and TSW, plus routes from not only the same old so-called "big three", I will leave this in a heartbeat. I have come to the conclusion that DTG has no interest in expanding outside of their niche group of countries. So be prepared for more UK, Germany, and US routes for the foreseeable future. These guys will never change in this regard. Their stubborn reluctance opens the door of opportunity for another company to offer what the people really want.

Imagine if Microsoft got back into the game and treated train sim the same was as they have with flight? One can only dream, but you never know.

 

I agree with this post 100%.

UK/US/DE is their biggest market only because DTG only targeted them. They never cared for expansion beyond their simple cash-cow. Too many excuses. Thinking about the future, am I to be excited about collecting future releases for the next few years knowing 99% of them will be the same old thing? I so wish someone else would come along so those of us who have interests in more than just the same three countries will have something to invest in.

 

We can dream!

 

Going outside of the "big three" can carry significant time and investment as the DTG team may need to build a new signalling system, or at least heavily modify one of the existing ones.

Beyond that, it comes down to sales numbers and viability. This is already a small niche (trains) within a small nice (sims) and within this niche we already have a sizable population that has no interest in routes outside of their preferred area. Ie. Germans who only will play German routes, or American freight fans who will only drive US or Canadian freight routes, or Brits who only want British routes. US/UK/German routes sell reliably well because these are the three biggest markets and people are generally more willing to buy a route that replicates their home country or region than elsewhere.

Even going back to TS Classic/TS20XX, DTG themselves rarely produced routes outside of the big three, with the exception of the French high speed line, just like in TSW. All of the Japanese, Swiss, Austrian, etc. routes were from third party devs.

I think it's highly unlikely DTG would start to expand outside of the "big three" while there are still so many highly in demand routes within that sphere. It makes more business sense, as it always has, for them to partner with third parties for other international routes.

 

I’m going to stop conversing with you now as you are reading way too much into this, still treating the analogy as a comparison, picking it apart, and not really understanding the point. This isn’t an inquest into how analogy works, how accurate it needs to be to illustrate a simple point and it certainly has nothing to do with how the music industry or music in general works. The one big point you have been missing while you delve into the minutiae and dissect potential meanings of the wonderfully lighthearted quote of mine is that this is about people thinking there is an obligation for someone to do something when they don’t have that obligation to anyone. I know how music works, I know fans don’t ask bands to change genre, you are going way too deep into it. Don’t ever go to a comedy gig, hardly anything will stand up to your level of scrutiny and you will forget to laugh. “But why would those three people of different nationalities be walking into that pub in the first place? It doesn’t make sense” etc. etc. I’m done

 

And that's why I keep answering. It all comes down to paying customers should remain silent and just swallow everything that's get offered. You have tried that argument with an analogy that doesn't stick. And again you try an analogy that doesn't stick. Why would one ask the question why those three different nationalities go to one pub? Pubs are filled with different nationalities (at least in my country) so why would someone doubt this could happen.

That said, I probably never would go to comedy gig where the comedy is x, x and x walk into a bar.

 

Well that’s one thing we can agree on, me neither!

 

In their eyes they are international. They do the south of england and the north of england.

 

We're all a little sated with the narrowness of TrainSim's world view.
Just how many more German red routes do we need, or UK emus?

Now that the Covid threat is receding we may be pleasantly surprised in the future.
The options for travel and research can no longer be used as a viable excuse.

 

I would be happy with a route from Austria and a proper Taurus loco for start.

 

I absolutely agree with you and for DTG they should use Aachen Hbf as starting point for International routes HRR Duisburg Hbf towards Utrecht in the Netherlands.

 

Which version exactly? 4 Pantographs 1.95m AC DC 1.45m Italy Slovenia Copper also safe on SNCF 25kv 50hz wires ÖBB Baureihe 1216 182 cousins the 1016 1116. Yet in real life it is simply treated as a normal PZB through running because ÖBB in the 1960s went for PZB with Salzburg München Line. Changes RRO RSN Köln Aachen since you have a chance of using ÖBB 2070 OHLE equipped sidings 1063 1064 1163. In return 204 363 G6 can roam Wien Kledering Salzburg Gnigl Villach Süd Hall in Tirol and Linz

 

Then explain Miss You, from the Some Girls album. That was the Stones doing disco, just because it existed.

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BTW the Walk This Way cover was the brainchild of Rick Rubin, who was producing RDMC at the time. He heard the song as proto-rap and thought a hip-hop cover would be a good idea, even though the band had never heard it (never even heard of Aerosmith). Then during licensing negotiations, Rubin invited Tyler and Perry to participate- a genius idea, really, because the record became a crossover hit on two charts.

 

That’s the Rolling Stones equivalent of DTG making a french high speed route because the kids like high speed. Probably.

I know Rubin made it all happen. After I was challenged by a response that suggested that if Rolling Stones fans wanted them to do hiphop that they would make some (the exact point I was saying would not happen) I quickly came up with the most famous example (ie I knew about it and others would too) of a rock music plus hiphop collaboration to represent DTG working with third parties to create routes from other countries. I didn’t expect the mechanics of how that came into existence to even enter into it. That wasn’t part of the analogy. However it happened the two groups worked together to make something music lovers enjoyed. Such a good record and one of only a handful by either artist that I like.

 

Never mind all this european nonsense. Australia has some really good routes and rolling stock, begging to be modelled. Doubt DTG would even look at them though, because they are all much much longer than 10 miles end to end.

 

I think DTG would first have to master the art of routebuilding upside down.

 

Never mind all this Australian nonsense. Europe has some really good routes and rolling stock, begging to be modelled.

 

I agree with IKB there are some great Aussie routes. Coals to Newcastle was one of the MSTS/OR classics and there’s are guy in Trainz who has created a substantial part of the NSW network which can be joined as modules. There are loads of scenic routes in Oz, plenty in NSW but also up the Gold Coast and of course the famous line from Cairns to Kuranda which then continues off into the outback towards Forsayth. On the western side Perth hasa great electrified suburban network which would be ideal in TSW. And you could go retro and include the zig zag railway up the hill from. Midland to Kalamunda and beyond.

 

My aunt is a dispatcher in oz. Its not all just open country with nothing to look at. Can't see why dtg have never gone that route, unless they're scared of all the critters?

 

If dtg want proof, look they even have real train stations!

 

DangerousDave is right - Melbourne has an extensive metro network - and varied scenery.
And also - "In their eyes they are international. They do the south of england and the north of england." - they really did go international in TSC - they took the GWR route to Swansea

 

As a Japan fan, I would already switch over to Densha de GO if they would release it to PC. Sadly I'm not going to buy a PlayStation just for one or two games.

 

This train looks awesome and also funny. It looks like a mashup of a German train with an American train. Interesting!

 

Correct and for that Adelaide 4000 series EMU it has a 1.067m cousin model the Transperth B Series Queensland Early 2010s IMU SMU. I did make a Transperth route suggestion the Mandurah Line and as a matter of fact my mum's sister lives 10 Minutes by walking to the nearest railway station which is Mandurah Line Wellard Stop.

 

Even if it would be, it's even better - less the scenery to be generated, less stuttering and other performence issues

 

Sorry but just No to another red emu!
Even if it's Australian.
A little diversity please.

 

? It's got red stripes, its mostly silver.

 

You sound like some one that knows Australian trains?

An ideas on this one please?

 

As a long-term TS/TSW player... Personally, rather than rushing it... they should get the basics right and that's being demonstrated in TSW3. Australia is complicated with each state having their own rules and regulations on signalling... it's not that simple in the modern era.

I would recommend DTG take their time before expanding into Melbourne's vast network, as it is complicated with various signalling, architecture (stations-wise) and not to mention 'Gauntlet' outside Southern Cross Station. In other words, it would likely take over a few years to understand the railway operations in Melbourne...

It certainly doesn't help with the lack of materials put online as they are housed in the State Governments hands or the Public Records Office of Victoria which is still digitalising their collection (expected to take years).

That being said, Metro's internal HCMT driver simulator is based on LIDAR (360* camera) technology.

 

All these exotic regions being suggested, DTG haven't even set one foot in Wales yet! Doesn't get more exotic than that

 

Never mind new countries, I am just trying to figure out which of this forum's newly revealed music industry professionals is Pete Waterman in disguise

 

That is an Adelaide 3000 series DMU. I have been on CityRail Sydney L, R, S V, and T sets. On the V sets if DTG makes a Sydney CityRail Route some passengers can stand behind the Drivers Cab which I did on DKM 8143 1989 Build V Set Granville to Paramatta September 2002 alongside my Cousin who lives in NSW.
For International Routes DTG should do Germany to Belgium L37 Aachen Liege followed by Germany to The Netherlands Duisburg-Utrecht 156 km.

Spoiler: Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht complexities

Zevenaar Emmerich Section uses ETCS Level 2 25kv 50 hz Emmerich Am Rhein Duisburg/Mulheim Styrum if merged with HRR PZB 15kv 16.7 hz Zevenaar Utrecht 1.5kv DC ATB EG NG. DB BR1429 needs to be trivoltage RE19 and run HRR S3 Oberhausen Essen Steele Ost if both were merged. Freight is DB BR189 some are C-Akv coupler equipped making them P brakes on Riesa Dresden Hannover Kassel Wurzburg Dresden Chemnitz

 

DTG say they do UK routes so where is Wales and N. Ireland? I'd love a Swansea to Didcot route but I'm biased. But DTG don't you think you have London and the South East covered now?

 

All the clues are there.

Spoiler: I am not he

My involvement in the music industry is extremely small compared to PW. And I don’t know as much as he does about trains.

 

‘Never mind new countries, I am just trying to figure out which of this forum's newly revealed music industry professionals is Pete Waterman in disguise ‘
Like two frogs in a puddle, which is more inflated

That said we have been agitating for a wider selection of routes for a long time now.
The message has surely gotten through.

Italy is crying out for a route and I’m sure a research team would welcome the chance to visit in person.

 

Mr Waterman is too busy to be here right now. He's currently working on "Making Tracks 3"... A 1:1 replica of the country spanning 12000 meters.

 

With LGV, DTG already have a bunch of French assets and obviously some sort of licensing arrangement with the SNCF, so why the heck have we not seen any more French routes (it’s not exactly a million miles away from Chatham)? I think they would be very popular; the French countryside is beautiful, and a “nez cassé” wending it’s way through valleys and vineyards would be most pleasant.

 

I agree and how about the nez casse crossing into Germany from France like Strasbourg Appenweier Metz Forbach Saarbrücken. As a matter of fact Nez Casse SNCB HLE18 Alstom did run on Schnellfahrstrecke Köln Aachen

 

There is that mix German/French route that released on TSC not to long ago, that could be a good start I guess....

 

Are you referring to Strasbourg Appenweier Karlsruhe line. On a workshop Wednesday stream Jamie mentioned that it was merged with Frankfurt am Main to Karlsruhe and Frankfurt am Main Wiesbaden Mainz Koblenz.

 

I'm only really interested in UK routes but surely it wouldn't take much to have a Dutch route would it? Even a Danish route? Also Bulgaria would be a good choice.

 

I totally agree. I would do the same. Japan is a fantastic rail country. Riding the trains and visiting the museums are some of the highlights of my trips there.

 

For a Dutch Route DTG can introduce one and international if there is a demand for it. The starting point can be Duisburg Hbf HRR then go to Utrecht Netherlands via Arnhem the HDU If merged with HRR HDBU.

Spoiler: HDU merged form HDBU full name

Non merged Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht merged with HRR Hollandstrecke Duisburg/Bochum Utrecht. Makes HRR busy meaning S3 to Oberhausen Essen Steele Ost follows a Freight train at Mulheim Styrum.

 

Seeing how many railways there are in the world, and how diverse this industry is, I think it's safe to say that Train Sim World just doesn't live up to its potential. It surely doesn't represent the "world" that is in its title. Focusing on three countries may be understandable from a game development standpoint, heck, maybe even a financial standpoint as well, but it doesn't change the fact that this game will never break out from this small-time form factor unless it starts to introduce really diverse content.

There have been several explanations for the lack of diversity. The team has experience only in UK, US and German trains / signalling systems (as if it was impossible to start getting familiar with new ones), or that Train Sim World is still a young franchise. Well, it's been four years already since the first release, with DLC coming out from seemingly a conveyor belt, and that's good - but there's only so much three countries can do for the worldwide community of simulator fans. Even though these are the three biggest markets for a video game, neglecting all other regions in the world is just wrong, and is making the whole franchise stuck on this medium level.

Money or budget is also a hardly believable explanation. Over the past four years, so much work and effort (e.g. money) has been poured into new routes, features, preservation, etc. Surely new countries could have been introduced with fewer DLC released instead. I would take it any day. Less but more diverse content overall. I'd have spent much more money on it for sure, than with this setup.

There is so much variety out there, from trains to scenery that it's incredibly frustrating not seeing any of it in this game. I honestly believe that the only luck DTG has is that there's no competition on this market. Dread the day when Microsoft realizes they should bring back Microsoft Train Simulator, or another similar game appears on the market. Even with less fidelity in the simulation, if the content is more spectacular and more varied, more people will choose that one.

Now, with TSW 3 the developers have the opportunity to spice things up and kind of draw a line, start with a more or less clean slate, and build a different strategy. Is more diverse content planned this time around? I doubt it, but I guess we'll see. I would love to see more countries represented, basically any country in the world has interesting routes and locomotives. Of course, another solution was to allow third-party developers to build and release content for the platform, but that's not the case currently. The more years pass the more disappointing it is to see DTG not paying attention to other regions, because as much effort they put in it, their game just doesn't make the train simulator world justice, and I wish more and more that someone would appear with a more diverse product.

 

I think you will find the Netherlands is very popular, I think Sam said on one of his secret lists, lol. But what gets me is that DTG do these surveys and they know what is popular and then they go off and do something completely the opposite or not at all. As regards to the UK they knew most did not want another South East route but they did one anyway.

Surely all they have to do is ask the player base for say their top 3 routes in a particular region and pick the most popular, but people want new routes and different Loco's.

 

I would prefer more routes on the same countries like UK, DE and US plus some Dutch routes.
I think that spreading routes over so many coutries can increase the player base but for me it could mean, OK we have routes over many countries but comes that feeling of incomplete route.

Just to mention I feel like this on S-Bahn Zentralschweiz. A beutiful route but too short.
Even with BML I feel like that sometimes. With so many branches and complete runs only to Brighton and Reigate.

 

I also think many people would like more complete route routes. We seem to get pretty empty routes bar one or two. GWE is laughably empty for example. I find it strange that DTG do a route and we then find there is no Loco DLC anymore.