Has Tsw 3 Addressed The Sound Issues?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you and Crosstie, i also haven't heard any changes to the sound either on the stream. I was expecting to hear more realistic audio and ambient sound but that hasn't come to reality. Where are all the track joint sound where when the train pass it it should make clickety clack sound, as well as train screeching, train passing over the bridge or viaduct, etc. Just in general where is the rumbling of the train going over the track. So far this has been a letdown and still they can't get these audio even when they went out to the source and record it, which is even more surprising that the audio team can't fix this problem still. I hope that in the second part stream when we do meet the audio team, they will prove us wrong, and really did do it, just that is not incorporated to the game since its still a work in progress. The only sound that are an improvement that i saw on the stream was the horn sound, and the engine sound, but still missing out on the very important part which is the realistic train track joint sounds. This throws off the immersion of the game without it.

    So far i am still pondering if i should get it or not. So far disappointed with the audio team on the topic of realistic track joint sounds :(:(:|
     
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  2. The way I look at it is I can stick with tsw2 and it's problems and never experience any new dlc. Or go with tsw3 and its problems and play new dlc.
     
  3. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Or stay/go with TSC (if you are a PC owner)
     
  4. I still play tsc a lot, just purchased some dlc for it funnily enough. If dtg implemented some old stuff from tsc to tsw it would be nice.

    Then even stuff in tsc was well hidden! I didn't even know about container loading until I ventured into the editor. Wasn't one scenario that implemented container loading anywhere.
     
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  5. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    TSC physics are just terrible in every way if you dont buy expensive 3rd party locos.
     
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  6. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I always said the worst part about TSC was the DTG content.

    Locos with poor sounds, visuals and physics, massively inconsistent route build quality that could go from the excellent to the down right shameful, scenarios that couldn’t be completed because they hadn’t been designed correctly, missing tunnel occlusion, missing cab occlusion, rushed and incomplete content, blah blah blah blah blah. Any of that sound at all familiar?

    TSC is as successful as it is because of the third party content and the ability of the individual to fix some of DTG’s errors with the editor. A huge community built up around both high quality payware and 3rd party freeware. The only issue with the freeware was that sorting the wheat from the chaff could be tricky (and there really was a lot of guff out there) but that shouldn't take away from the fact that it was there, and it was free, just like (funnily enough) Flight Sim 2020. That model goes hand-in-hand with simming, and the community and 3rd party content that builds up around a title is absolutely fundamental to the hobby. Even Matt P was in on it with UKTS back in the day. Perhaps he still is.

    This fundamental element, this ‘Community’, has been forgotten by DTG and whipped away from us with TSW. All that’s left us with is the DTG content and it should be of no surprise at all that many of the problems that blighted DTG content in TSC are apparent in TSW. It’s pretty easy to follow the lineage and see how and where the problems with this game arise, is it not? For all Sam’s chip-on-the-shoulder comments re FS2020 even Microsoft gets it. They know that for FS to have longevity and to properly flourish that community, and that free access to a powerful SDK, is fundamental.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2022
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  7. Cloadmcally

    Cloadmcally Active Member

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    I'm afraid it's not just that easy, see creating a game engine from scratch is a humongous job, one that DTG could never, in their current state, accomplish. Unreal is backed by a huge company with many engineers continuosly working on improving and modifying it, and yet look how many issues it still has. Just think of the time it took dovetail to implement their code to make the engine able to do what it does today. And if you're talking about updating the old kuju TSC engine, that's no good either, since A) it's incredibly old now, would miss a ton of the features we have in TSW, it would take considerable time just bringing it up to spec with what UE can do, and then you're still missing console compatibility, which as I understand is a huge issue, and one not easily delt with, essentially requiring years work to implement.

    So let's say DTG were to follow this route, they would:
    A) Throw away years working with Unreal and you wouldn't be able to take your content with you to the new platform (queue pitchforks and disgruntled customers)
    B) Invest resources, potentially taking a few years time, all the while getting limited revenue from their previous products and producing no new content.
    C) Risk cutting their revenue by 2/3 if choosing not to support consoles anymore, or taking even longer if they wanted to include ps/xbox versions.

    So I see this as a definitive loose - loose, for us and for dtg. Just to get some of the good features from tsc back. The fixes may come, or they may not, but i'd still take tsw over tsc any day of the week, even if I have been an avid tsc player since RailWorks.

    If you can do a better job that dtg, or know someone who can, I'd think we all would love to see a worthy alternative, but as it stands, DTG is our best option, and personally, so is TSW.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Actually, only SPG has ever had tunnel reverb. TSW hasn't done it since
     
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Whatever…

    The fact is, it is up to DTG to fix this mess up or they will face dwindling sales with TSW. They need to salvage something from the wreckage and give us a game that is actually capable of delivering what the train sims of 20 years ago did. As the end customer I really don’t care how they do that, whether it’s by employing competent programmers who know what they’re doing in UE4 or shifting to a new engine with provision to convert the old content across. If in 2022 the best they can offer is a train sim which has the most odd looking graphics and lighting of any game I’ve ever seen, a flat soundfield and no ability to save your progress then maybe they shouldn’t bother.

    TSC may be old but at least it works and provides an enjoyable immersive driving experience. (As does DRS, Derail Valley, Hmmsim, Run 8, OpenBVE, Zusi, Open Rails et al).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
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  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day, we are end users of the game, so it really isn't our responsibility or obligation to know or understand the technical issues or challenges the software and/or hardware presents.

    For a game in 2022, it really is unacceptable to have such poor sounds in a modern game, of which its predecessor handled much better.
     
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  11. What would be the reactions from people if dtg announced they've been working on a new game engine. It's addressed all the issues in the tsw franchise but when it launches, tsw and all your dlc will be obsolete. I wonder?
     
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  12. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand why Maik loses patience - many of you guys just don't listen - or maybe don't want to hear - there is no magic engine to replace UE and there is no magic sound solution. For DTG to develop a new engine, they would have to spend millions and years and then find a way to cover the cost by persuading other game developers to use it - more millions and years. Whatever happens with TSW3, it is beyond insulting to ascribe to DTG employees a lack of interest in improvement of the sim. Maybe DTG can produce a significant improvement in sound, maybe not - let's hope they can, but in the meantime just buy or don't buy it - and for Dog sake stop whingeing.
     
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  13. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting that DTG develop their own game engine from scratch. If they are then they clearly don’t have a clue as to what is involved.

    However, I’m afraid that doesn’t change the fact that TSW remains the only game I’ve ever played that is plagued by all of these aforementioned issues. People won’t stop whinging because many of us have spent an awful lot of money on this, we have been told time and again that it was going to get better and over and over that it would have many of the major issues addressed. DTG though have failed to deliver on 95% of those promises so forgive me if I don’t trust a single thing they say anymore.

    Additionally, I wish people would stop making excuses for them. We are going through yet another ‘reset’ where they’re selling a new version as an improvement when the reality is that virtually nothing of any note has changed. People are still lapping it up though, believing everything they are told when you only need to watch a live stream for a few minutes to see it’s all massively embellished marketing hype. Many of us are absolutely fed up with the false promises and people have every right to whinge about a product that falls far short of the sales rhetoric.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This. I really don’t understand the people apologising for DTG or making excuses for them, like a couple of posts below yours. They are a multi £million business not some bedroom developer doing it in their spare time. They have had five years plus now working with UE to “git gud”.

    I mean don’t misunderstand me. I want to support the hobby having been a long time advocate of the genre since before some people playing TSW were even born. I want DTG to play a part in that but this is now the third iteration of TSW and they need to pull their socks up. We can indeed vote with our wallets and I still hope that at least one of the three rabbits of sound, graphics or saved game will be pulled out the hat to consider a Day 1 purchase but if not I’ll wait for 50% off in a sale.
     
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  15. BeastyBill88

    BeastyBill88 Well-Known Member

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    I highly doubt it considering TSW3 is actually just TSW2.1 with a new name that's all. All the bugs from TSW2 and the DLCs will carry over and nothing will be fixed but don't worry, just get ready for TSW2.2... Sorry TSW4 releasing in 2024 with all the same issues and bugs and the previous games :|
     
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  16. As the name suggests itself (prototype) tsw is by no means a finished product.
     
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  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Zusi? Zusi has no lighting at all, and no save.
     
  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is the exception and one reason why I will not part with £55 for Zusi 3.
     
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  19. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I honestly prefere the "light" in Zusi overall to the mess we have currently in TSW2
     
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  20. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Been thinking on this and I think the majority on the forums would be excited if DTG had managed to sort the bugs, errors etc in game. Long list mind. Even if that might mean buying afresh. It is probably the case that the only way DTG will get rid of most of the bugs is to start from scratch so I think most people would be positive if they could show that was the case. But also the first DLC would play a huge part in that, I think most would want new routes.

    Most successful software companies use an existing engine and then adapt it. You cannot deny DTG is struggling with UE4, the sound is but one example. If UE4 is a good engine (which I am told it is) the DTG's coders are not upto adapting it unless you think UE4 is not a good engine, in that case why did DTG pick it? Were they 'encouraged' to pick it? ;)

    As for your demand for customers to stop complaining there is a simple solution for you, just go away and play the game.
     
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  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    But TSC doesn’t run on Xbox and PS4/5. So what TSC can do is a poor litmus test for what can be accomplished in a cross platform simulation.
     
  22. squerble

    squerble Active Member

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    Just wanted to add my +1 to the hope DTG have addressed some sound issues. The biggest one for me is the apparent limit on how many sounds can play at once - I think I saw mention of a channel limit? Sometimes when it's raining and the wipers are going, the sounds for AWS or DSD literally don't play and on occasion I've had an emergency brake because I didn't acknowledge the DSD alarm, seriously messing up a service!
     
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  23. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    i have to say that also the sound is more realistic in Zusi and i like the whole game a lot its a real simulator
    i wish TSW would go this way in realism
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I do notice DTG appear to have gone very quiet (pun intended) on the sound issue and for that matter everything else that is being brought up in the countdown to release. If they want our business, they really have to start addressing these problems and let the (potential) customers know what's happening.
     
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  25. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Sound is very important for my personal immersion and was the reason why I stayed with (and invested in) TSW2020 some years back until today.
    You all can imagine my face when I did my first service in TSW2 and found the sound to be ... degraded and anoyingly "whiney".

    I installed A LOT of mods from the community that address sound issues and somehow lied to me that DTG sure will sort this out, they found something for the X-Box issues recently, they brought new specialists to the team, [...]

    I have to admit, at the moment, I'm just sitting here, not playing TSW2 anymore and somehow not really opting for TSW3. Well ... I will watch the forums closely and otherwise wait until TSG releases the next great DLC that's worth my time. Hopefully I can save the game then, my old cat demands for that. Sorry when this sounds overly dramatic but I'm really a little bit torn apart inside about "my beloved Train game" ;-)
     
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  26. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Same for me. No longer playing TSW2 and not excited for TSW3.
    Will watch the forums for a month and then decide
     
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  27. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This isn’t true. I don’t remember how many routes with tunnels had it but it was definitely in NTP in TSW2020. I’m sure it was in more routes too. To check if tunnel reverb is present you just pause the game in a tunnel and the reverb still rings on. Anyone who still has TSW2020 can test it. There’s a short section in Cane Creek where the train goes through a cutting in the rock with close walls and that has reverb in it, so it is there in TSW2 on at least one (third party) route. I know because I paused the game while in the cutting a couple of days ago and the reverb carried on ringing for a second or two.
     
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  28. I never use the 378 because the sound is the worst of all I think. Aws don't hardly sound and the sounds keep cutting out. Totally ruins the experience!
     
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  29. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    There are a few trains ruined by bad or missing sounds
     
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  30. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with this because then what are the forums for, just for praise? When DTG has done a good job, the community has been the first to recognise it. But I also believe that, as customers, we have the right to complain if we feel that there are things that haven't gone quite right or that we think could be done better.
    In fact, the company itself has said on multiple occasions that they welcome and value constructive criticism.
     
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  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Well Maik has outlined the difficulties and I thank him for his insights, I will wait for the sounds live stream tomorrow (Wednesday) to see what exactly we can expect.
     
  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    You are right, just imagine the forum was just left with the fanboys. The game would hardly improve as the flaws will not be pointed out. The best software companies out there tend to work with criticism big and small. Praise just for praise' sake will only hamper the game. My hope is that DTG realise this. I'm not saying complaining for no reason is the way to go in fact if DTG did something good and it benefitted me I would be the first to say so but equally pointing the stuff out where it goes wrong or falls short is vital imo.
     
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  33. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    "Increasing your sense of immersion are brand new, highly detailed, and carefully engineered sounds. The joy of witnessing high-speed trains whooshing past you and enormous diesel locomotives powering up steep gradients is captured by realistic and layered in-game sounds, bringing Train Sim World 3 to life, and simulating everything from the squeal of the brakes to the coupling of wagons. You will feel the raw power of the locomotives you control blasting through your speakers , your senses engaged in an exciting and unique experience, enhancing every journey you take."
    Source: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/feel-the-power

    This stream tonight will decide if I go play something else in the future or if I give them another chance (and obviously 500+ Euro for DLC in the upcoming years again)
     
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  34. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I hope you come back!
     
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  35. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure they could say the same with any dlc. Also tsw is marketed as having authentic sounds which doesn't seem the case half the time. It'll definitely be better just cuz some good members helped out like ap, maik and the us horn guy.
     
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  36. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Sounds stream canceled then?
     
  37. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Yup was confirmed earlier today in the announcement part of the forums
     
  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, they did sort of promise that the stream was merely postponed and would be rescheduled. But time is running out.
     
  39. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    TSW3 launch is still a little over a week away (For early access at least)...plenty of time to get the Audio and SEHS streams in for next week (and possibly a Cajon Pass one as well)
     
  40. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I hope the propulsion of the LIRR m7 gets fixed since it has been broken since it was first released and the audio lag issues that stem from the original TSW, CSX Heavy Haul
     
  41. Kitten

    Kitten Active Member

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    I'd happily buy a completely new game if it had the immersive experience I was looking for. TSC/W* just isn't cutting it. The graphics, audio or lighting are problems.
     
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  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday's audio stream was the one I was most anticipating this week. Whether they have the equipment to do it justice online remains to be heard.
    Of the 3 remaining streams, this is the one they're most likely to sacrifice, I would imagine.
     
  43. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    You must be joking. Zusi is far uglier and dated even than TSC, no chance you can compare this to TSW. Sure TSW 2 is not perfect but you cannot compare the graphics of TSW with a game that looks like openrails. No way in hell !!
     
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  44. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    No I'm not. Zusi 3 has nice graphics for a years old hardcore train sim. And I prefer the overall look over TSC slightly while I definitely prefer it over TSW2 when it comes to night, sunset and sundown.
    TSW2 lighting is just messed up.
     
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  45. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know what it is about Zusi, but I, too, like it a lot, especially when it comes to immersion. Of course, it does not have proper lighting, no train lights, no weather, no head movement, etc… But the immersion is certainly there and, after all, immersion is what it comes down to.
     
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  46. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Zusi has its own issues, like a clunky menu, you need to restart the game to start a new service, the whole "time leap" thing is annoying if the timetable starts at 05:00 and your train starts at 19:00. Then there are crashes with access violations, there are no clouds in the sky...but yeah, an evening drive with a little fog and a HD cab texture...the immersion is great with active station announcements and EbuLa

    So im not a fanboy, just as a PSA so nobody can claim this since im usually very critical of DTG train sims here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
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  47. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t consider myself a fanboy, either. But Zusi does a lot of things right, which TSW lacks, in my eyes. For example, I love to watch signals change their aspects in Zusi. It takes several seconds and goes through several stages until it displays what it should do. Also the sound is so good (on most trains, at least). The fact that it lives from the constant input of the community. Then again, in TSW I love to move around, being able to live in a timetable and change the trains, turn a train around by walking from one cab to another, being able to walk down my fright train and change the brake settings.

    I am happy, as long as I have both…
     
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  48. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    All very quiet isn't it, been no streams at all certainly one feels that the audio one has quietly been put to bed.
     
  49. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Are the Audio Team trying to avoid coming on the stream because they are scared that we as a fan going to target them with a bunch of questions? Cause this look like the case. especially since i don't hear when they are going to do the audio team stream, which was postponed last week. All i only saw was they are just doing a stream on Southeastern high speed, and the cajon pass, i don't see ANYTHING ABOUT the Audio Team Stream. :|
     
  50. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It's probably cuz they don't got time for it. The routes are more important to show before the game actually releases. There's either going to be one next week or none at all. It's not like a priority stream at the moment which is why cajon pass and sehs is being shown on Thursday before the early access goes live. I wouldn't mind not having one cuz we kinda already know/will know what the trains sound like and that they changed like various sounds and added new sounds but other sounds still being the same. If you know what I mean.
     

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