Training Center Stream Feedback

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, Aug 23, 2022.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Having watched the Training Center stream tonight, I have the following feedback… Some of which, could be a deal breaker for me:
    • Lightning barely noticeable. Lots of thunder, but the lightning barely lit up the sky - just a few puny, dim bolts were noticeable in the distance.
    • The ground did not look wet despite the extremely heavy rain.
    • The FPS is extremely appalling to say the very least. Even Sam refused to sugar coat it.
    • Stutters galore.
    • Blurry trains still present, despite being an issue since Day 1 of TSW 2. Why is this issue still NOT fixed?
    • Glitching texture on the 395.
    Two live streams in and my excitement for TSW 3 is taking a hammering. I might well consider cancelling my PS5 pre-order.

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2022
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  2. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    yea very concerning with all the above
     
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  3. Loco Dave

    Loco Dave Member

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    I thought it would have instructional training modes to teach things like PZB or braking types. Maybe it will, but the stream didn't suggest anything but a sandbox.
     
  4. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused that there was no demo of any actual training. I'd thought this was for centralized guided training on a chosen loco. Is this in fact simply a learning center for training yourself with no pressure to keep a timetable schedule?
     
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  5. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    What are they doing? Honestly!
    What a fail! Game is runing like a potato!
     
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  6. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Those would have to take place on the routes due to no signals in Training Center.
     
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  7. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Not a deal breaker for me. Although Sam said he was not on the latest build for the Training centre. The only thing that I was disappointed with was the lightning. to be honest I would love to have the thunder but the lightning no. just remove it. its not authentic to be honest. I also think some of the behaviour of the community was pretty poor. You must also remember but Sam was also streaming, on teams with Adam as well as playing a dev build which is collecting crap loads of information behind the s

    Hentis
     
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  8. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    These will be on the routes themselves as there is no signalling on the training center route.
     
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  9. PeterNeutron

    PeterNeutron Active Member

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    What I dont understand is the fact that with training center as a very new and central feature of the game, they don't show any training! Instead Sam running around at very bad and stuttery FPS not using any training to start the locos.
    Why is there nothing to do in the central building of it besides sitting in a chair?
    Why are there no different areas for each country and theire respective locos etc and then the trainings?
    To me it looks like a free roam center with all trains spawned eating up FPS
     
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  10. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    A few facts and figures from the live game section.

    After initial load-in which pushed both my GPU and CPU pretty hard (but then it always does that) my system was never stressed beyond 40% CPU / 30% GPU use. Memory use was at around 20% throughout. This includes everything my system was doing at the time - full screen of Adam via MS teams, hosting and previewing the stream and running multiple browsers also showing the stream.

    Based on the recording this afternoon I'd expected zero issues - perhaps unsurprisingly, I'm not going to deliberately show something that isn't performing well. The team are investigating the performance dip to evaluate further.

    As mentioned on the stream you will have opportunities to see the game in action again before launch, and we'll replicate the heavy downpour conditions in the Training Center for the sake of comparison.

    Also, sorry for not having the startup sequences down for every loco. I do practise if I'm featuring a train, I was caught off-guard. It wasn't good enough on my part and I apologise if it spoiled the stream for you.
     
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  11. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I love the addition of the training centre. Finally something worth calling it TSW3? I also like the environment, probably the best looking route I've seen so far in all TSW.

    But that does not make up for the bad performance. I even don't understand anymore why there is such bad performance. Everything that was ever mentioned that would be the culprit of why TSW stutters so much is not present in the training centre. They should rebrand the game to Train Stutter World
     
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  12. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't to bad but I feel confused about one thing. Are we going to be able to use our TSW 2 collection on Training Center or would we have to create a scenario in scenario planner to use them? If so then that's disappointing to me.
     
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  13. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Supplemental:

    I've just rerun the exact same settings but with no additional video in use. Never drops below 40 fps, almost constant at 60. I don't expect you to take my word for this, but it may well be time for me to invest in a dedicated capture PC.
     
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  14. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    The idea of the training centre was to do away with the look up, down, left , right . Walk here you've just been awarded some action points, and go here you've just found a collectable part of the training that you get with every single piece of Route DLC. The community was finding it very tedious to do as all they wanted to do was to get into driving the route. So in essence you only have to do it once and that's it.

    There is no signalling on the route and they did explain why that is in the stream, so no loco training will be done there. From what I understand and TrainSim-Adam correct me if I am wrong, that when you have a new loco DLC for a new route or stand alone then those tutorials instead of finding them listed under the locos tab those tutorials will be found under the particular loco tile at the training center.

    One addidtion / suggestion I would like to see is that the rolling stock at the training center randomly changes everytime you load in the route to randomly rolling stock of the routes that you have installed on your PC or console. Would that or is that possible to do?

    Cheers

    Hentis
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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  15. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I've got a question relating to spawning on foot. Will only the TSW3 locos be availible?

    I get that there can't be an unlimited number of loco types and that I can access any of the trains from my DLC with scenario planner buy it would be great to be able able to choose what locos are present when arriving in the Training Centre on foot.
     
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  16. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Can I have a play on the training centre please :p

    Hentis
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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  17. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    To be honest I have never seen TSW run as well as it just did... but it's the first time in over a year that I haven't been capturing video at the same time.
     
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  18. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    The route does look nice. Although, some textures, especially the white paint on the trains seemed overly bright - even on the shaded side - with the new lighting system.

    The tunnel lighting and eye adaptation seemed improved on this route.
     
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  19. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Also the glitch with the 395 needs to be looked at. I had that type of issue with custom liveries on it as well.
     
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  20. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Don't sweat it. I like it when you do the streams. It's honest and I appreciate that very much
     
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  21. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    It looked good I quite enjoyed it. Not sure whether my PC will play it (it plays TSW 2 with a bit of stuttering ) but other than the lightning , which I am not a big fan of it seemed to be ok. The stuttering thing is the norm these days no matter what route or platform you are on. I think some of it is just down to people expecting everything to be the dogs danglies when they see it on a PC.

    Tony
     
  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate heads up Sam,

    I’ll be honest I was thinking do I bail on my preorder during stream. I’ve grown accustomed to the smoothness of 60fps

     
  23. Doyden

    Doyden Active Member

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    I really don't see the point of the Training Centre other than as a handy mechanism to separate locomotive DLCs from their routes. It appears to be nothing more than a sandbox environment to drive anything but on a tiny route. Other than the training new players have to go through when starting a game to understand the basic controls, it doesn't appear to offer anything more elaborate than that and as they don't plan on ever adding signalling it never will do.

    I can just as easily pick any locomotive and drive it on any of my routes in off the rails mode.

    I just want to drive real trains on real routes. IF I buy TSW3, I can't see me giving this more than a cursory look before returning to real locations. With no meaningful "training" present, I think it will become old very quickly.

    I shudder to think at the resources that have gone into this that could instead have been spent on maybe bringing some of the more recent TSW2 routes up to TSW3 standards.

    Two preview streams in and my initial excitement at the 24 hour teaser video has all but evaporated. The same old problems still present such as blurring textures on passing trains, awful hitching even on a tiny map such as the training centre and so on.

    One of the aspects I was most looking forward to was the lightning but even that seems disappointing. The Training Centre was well lit so it may look better in darker areas or on other routes but I was really hoping for much more illumination of the environment from the flashes. Will storms vary in intensity and location, i.e. overhead or in the distance?

    I already have SEHS and was initially interested in the German route but after the stream, I'm not so sure. So as I have no interest in steam or US freight, and now the training centre, to buy TSW3 I have to rebuy a UK route I already own (okay, it is extended) or a German route I'm so far not overly impressed by.
     
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  24. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I think Sam gave a very good of example what Training Center is for. The best example was "I can't find the light switch". I've had that problem with coach lights on an ICE train. If I only had a training center then so I could figure it out without having a timer saying I should have left the station already. If you are not using the training center it will still get you rid of the annoying "look up, look down intro's" Best resources ever spent :D
     
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  25. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    We got a lot of the Training Center-as-a-route this evening, which is fine because it looks good and was a nice route so I am not surprised you want to show it off, but it would have been as good to see the same amount of the Training Center-as-a-feature, because the UI looked quite tantalising but we didn't get to really see how TSW3 brings it all together and what that's like to experience as a player.

    Screenshot 2022-08-23 224907.png
     
  26. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    I'm going to hook up a dedicated streaming PC ASAP and do a rerun to show that it was an anomaly.
     
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  27. Doyden

    Doyden Active Member

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    True, but you could just as easily do what I do now. If I've not driven a loco for a while, I find all the necessary setup controls at my leisure regardless of the clock and then quickly restart the run. Much easier to do that than to have a developer build an entire environment just to refresh your memory on how to drive something before then loading up the route you actually want to drive. ☺

    Also, in the Training Centre, why are all of the locos sitting there already running again? This seemed the perfect environment to have them all switched off so that you could actually get to cold start them. Something you are taught once and never get to do again!
     
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  28. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really looking forward to messing about with training centre, looks like a great addition to the game. Seems like really chill place to have quick run about when you don't want to do a proper scenario / timetable.

    I also think both my kids will love the freedom of it as they like TSW but get bored when the games tells them what to do or they can't go where they want etc.

    I know it won't be everyone's cup of tea but I think it's very worthwhile.
     
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  29. Loco Dave

    Loco Dave Member

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    It would've been nice to have seen the menu screen interaction playing out for a proper training scenario.
    I understand it's primary purpose is to rid us of tedious introduction training and to separate locos from routes, but right now it looks nothing more than a sandbox. Hopefully it'll grow over time. I can wait if necessary.
     
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  30. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do think there’s a lot of things that will be interesting to explore here and Adam seemed to hint at future development
     
  31. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I certainly wouldn't say that it was spoiled, but I and others were left confused that no guided training happened, which I thought was the point of the center. Are we misunderstanding what the center will and won't include, and could that please be spelled out if so?
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Don’t stress about your train driving skills sam, we know they’re eccentric at best. If I’m doubt check the chat, there was loads of help and love flowing
     
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  33. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Entirely valid comment. In the stream "rematch" I'll do the loco tutorials as well.
     
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  34. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks very much!
     
  35. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t expect to like the Training Centre, but I did. I like the fact that it’s a sandbox and the fact that I can just go back in and refresh my knowledge of a loco.

    It reminded me a lot of my childhood train set with a big oval of track that had loads of sidings attached and rolling stock from many different eras, all mixed together. I love the German routes with all the complexities of PZB and signalling but sometimes it’s just fun to play with trains, shunt things around a bit and blast round a track.
     
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  36. imstylinonyabro

    imstylinonyabro Active Member

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    Don't cancel the pre-order! This wasn't the most recent training center build. The game is being improved everyday and it's not out yet. No reason to be concerned. But yeah, with the heavily touted eye-adaptation, why does the lightning not do it at night? Any time I watch a thunderstorm at night out the window, my eyes definitely react to it like when leaving a tunnel, except its brightness to darkness.

    Sad thing is even with all the issues, I'll just be happy if I boot up TSW3 and don't need to change the cursor to large and motion blur off....every. single. time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
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  37. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So! If Ive understood this correctly, in the training centre there is no actual tutorial somewhere within it with regards to learning and practicing things like German signalling like LZB SIFA etc. No training procedures with regards to the procedure of actually cold starting from scratch every type of train you own even if you don’t need to do that in the actual route dlc’s? Aren’t we here to actually learn about the finer points of all the different types of trains and signalling from different countries should we be interested. Isn’t that the whole point of a train sim like TSW and the role of something like this new training centre feature?

    As it stands it appears to me to be a bit of a waste of time and a waste of valuable resources from DTG when they could have been concentrating on improving or creating other important things. As another player said earlier in this thread, if I forget where everything is on a train I haven’t driven for a while I just forget about the the time clock, hunt around at my leisure whilst I re familiar myself, and then just quickly restart the route again.

    With it’s boring circular track, even if it apparently does look nice, and it’s main function to do away with the look up and look down etc intros when you first start a newly purchased route dlc which you only needed to do once anyway. ( Big deal ) Training centre seems to me to be just some kind of vanity project to justify DTG’s shocking decision to force existing TSW2 players into forking out extra cash to have to buy this glorified TSW2 update called TSW3 if they want to continue being able to buy future newly released dlc routes.
     
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  38. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    I’m gutted about the Training Center . TSW 3 seems to be one disappointment after another , after the initial hype . It started off promising so much yet at each turn the promise turns to meh . It now seems that Training Center is nothing but cosmetic and serves no real purpose.
    DTG should have just released the new DLC separate and maybe SEHS could have been £10 or whatever and the rest could have been a patch . I don’t mind paying for decent content but this has gone from excitement pre launch hype to “is that all there is”? That is without mentioning the save or lack of it .

    Did DTG realise that this is all less than the sum of its parts and decided to let us down slowly? I see no other explanation.
    I will buy l the DE route because I want the SEHS extension but not until the reports from players seeing how bugged it is
    Such a sad state of affairs
     
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  39. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you don't even have to do it for once. When starting new route and this silly introduction starts you may just go to Options -> Main menu and then come back to the route, where all the content is now "unlocked" :) I'm doing so since some time now, as the introductions are usually broken, where you're prompted to "adjust a throttle to the point you'll start moving" when there was no info to i.e. close the train's doors in advance.

    Training Center where you actually will not be able to train your driving skills I suppose, as there is no signalling and no safety system magnets along the route, but just get familiar with train's in-cab switches, which can be done also on regular route if you'll just ignore the timetable and then restart the service, when you get to know them all.

    As mattchester#9176 said above it's quite nice feature for someone who don't like to follow the timetable, want to roam around freely, it's a playground. If your childhood dream was to have a train set with lots of sidings and different types of trains - there you go, your dream comes true :)

    If you could actually train your driving skills in new train/loco along with signalling, safety systems and so on, there I might find it quite useful for me, as then I would be starting from instead of going on a route as a complete greenhorn and learn there on-the-fly. But as this it not there, then for me this training center is as good as non-existing. All it offers in regards to trainings I can do on the routes.
     
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  40. tezza#1808

    tezza#1808 New Member

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    I like the honesty it would be useful to get a look at the game running on a gen 8 console and the gen 9 if we go on yesterday’s stream then console players are in fir a bad experience ps I can’t drive the American trains neither
     
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  41. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    What honesty?

    They never stream on 8th gen console because they know it will look and probably perform awful and will show the missing content compared to 9th gen which is fair enough because 8th gen isn’t as powerful as 9th gen. However they make a big thing about still supporting 8th gen which is still in the majority apparently ( PS4 on PS is anyway ) yet they want us to buy things like TSW3 and new dlc’s blindly without them showing us what we are actually buying.

    it’s disrespectful to PS4 / 8th gen players and shows they just take our revenue for granted.

    All these DTG ambassadors on YouTube who are just after a free key pass by sucking up to them as far as concerned are just as bad and should be ashamed of themselves for supporting such contempt for those who haven’t got the latest and greatest.
     
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  42. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Back on the topic of this training centre.

    One reason I prefer playing UK routes apart from the fact UK trains are my interest is the fact I’ve yet to crack all this LZB, SIFA stuff on German routes. I’m just a casual train fan so that’s probably why I struggle with it, who knows? The fact is I do struggle with it so something like training centre making it easy for me to understand it all via a proper easy to understand and play tutorial within it would end up me having more of an interest in German routes which would end up with me possibly buying and playing them.

    So an own goal DTG because as it stands I’m not interested in them and so won’t be buying them hence you lot losing revenue from me ( And probably others ) on that front.

    Who a actually makes the business decisions within DTG, as in who has the final say on things? I’d love to know because personally I’d sack him / her.
     
  43. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it'd be nicer if there was a free roam feature you could use with any route, like MSTS and TSC had...
    IIRC they have stated that there'll be a new tutorial explaining LZB etc., but as it won't be a Training Center tutorial they'll presumably have to duplicate it for every route.
     
  44. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    To me training centre should have tutorials for thinks like TPWS on UK routes. Headlight settings and when to use them. TVM usage.

    For German trains there should be the same on the headlight usage as the German train tutorials incorrectly tell you to use high and full beam form normal day time usage, that is incorrect.

    Again for German trains, AFB usage, PZB modes and usage, LZB usage and a combination of how AFB and LZB and PZB work together.
    Turning on the internal lights on German trains, ICE, 423, 146.2 etc.

    For US trains there should be the same on the light settings. Setting up lead and and trail locos correctly. How and when to use dynamic brakes correctly and effectively.

    Lot and lots of detail in the game that is not actually explained in any sort of detail to people that may want to know more and don't know where to ask.
     
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  45. I'm guessing training center is a flop then?
     
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  46. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    :D

    Well from what we are learning about it I’m guessing it is as it currently stands. A better way of putting it is it’s pretty pointless.

    It doesn’t have to be though if DTG were to put in some actual effort and give this training centre idea some content that would be of some real use.

    Still good to read further above that some sort of simple to understand German signalling training is being considered although I still say the logical place to put such a thing would be in the erm training centre! :|
     
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  47. So its not actually a training center then. I thought it would be the place to go to learn about trains and all the functions and to learn about the various types of signalling systems?
     
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  48. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    For now it looks more like a Playground Center: jump in to already started loco/train and drive in circles until you go nuts ;)
     
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  49. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    As far as train on things like PZB, it was noted last week in the German stream, that when you do one like this you will be sent to the route in question and the tutorial will be set there. Matt stated that the PZB training run is 15 minutes long so it can show the method to utilize it. Same for the training on how to brake the heavy train on the Cajon route, it will start at the training center, but be run on the route.
     
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  50. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    And therefore what's the point of this Training Center? I find it useless from the training point of view, because all it offers now is already available in the on-the-route tutorials.
    It's more of a test track now, maybe it will build up in the future, but for now it does not have much value in terms of trainings.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
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