Lighting Looks Worse To Me Compared To Tsw2 Under Certain Conditions

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by FD1003, Sep 2, 2022.

  1. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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  2. DK12345

    DK12345 Active Member

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    Perhaps it's just different from what you're used to? I always thought that TSW 2 cabs looked way too dull on some locos and units, and prefer the TSW3 version. I get the feeling that this is going to be what I call a GWR Green issue, after one of the longest debates in railway modelling (ask 20 people which version looks most realistic and you'll get at least 23 answers).
     
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  3. photonmonkey

    photonmonkey Well-Known Member

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    I am on the early access on PS4 and for the most part I think the light levels are much better, it may still need a bit of tweaking here and there but I prefer it on the whole. Maybe they can introduce a slider for brightness etc so people can tweak to their personal requirements.
     
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  4. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I too was worried that going for more bloom on tsw3 wasnt the way to go. I think the streams have changed my opinion. I think theyve got the light values pretty close to reality now.
     
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  5. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    I can kind of see from your view - especially with the Class 66.

    You do have to remember, however, that the cab in the RL photo will look darker because of of the bright light outside. The real life camera will try to bring as much light from the inside of the cab as possible, but the light from the outside is extremely blinding as a result, making the cab seem even darker.

    Maybe if someone could recreate the shot in both games, with the iris effect focused on the cab rather than the outside.

    But I do agree, while the lighting is superb for the most part, the 66 definitely looks very washed out.
     
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  6. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say on Series X at least, the lighting is MUCH improved. I've only been able to run one service on SEHS so far, but it was a very noticeable upgrade especially in transitions from light to dark and vice versa.

    I was unloading passengers at one of the stations with a small tunnel near it (Chatham?) and the middle portion of my train was in the tunnel, while both ends were in sunshine and the corresponding shadows were spot-on.

    I really like the skybox too. When i started the service it was crystal clear, but clouds started building in as the run progressed- and the clouds actually block out the sun and cast shadows (or at least do a convincing enough job)!

    The biggest graphical issues i noticed were draw distance (especially shadows- fair enough as they are resource hogs), and one case of an occasionally ultra-blurry static freight train.

    Still work to be done but my initial impressions are good on the visual end.
     
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  7. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Active Member

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    Do have to say I’m REALLY impressed with the new lighting (and lots else!); really stood out as impressive as soon as I loaded in to my first service…. We’ll done!!
     
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  8. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I still think a brightness slider in the options might be helpful.
     
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  9. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    You'd think this photo was taken in Train Simulator Classic. But it's from TSW3. Where are the shadows and colors? Over exposed in general. A little better on the outside. Window tint also seem to have an impact on the colors, in a negative way.

    Everything is set to Ultra. No changes to the engine.ini.

    20220902205222_1.jpg
     
  10. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    Can't lie - the only thing that stood out for me was the sheer WIDENESS of the image

    although the footbridge - I can see what you mean if it is about the footbridge
     
  11. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    From what I have seen in streams and screenshots it is the interior lighting which is still a bit off. Everything inside the passenger compartments looks very flat and washed out.
     
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  12. rpb1966

    rpb1966 Well-Known Member

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    How about a contrast and brightness level bar DTG, that will solve some problems. I think that there s too much bloom and some of the time, the contrast is a bit much compared to TSW 2
     
  13. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I'd bump brightness down and contrast up on my screen as it does look very faded and washed out. Like an old photograph.
     
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  14. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    After Matt's reassurances about save reimplantation, I decided to buy it on Steam. And my first impression was, Why do the graphics not look as good as TSW2? Everything looks washed out. Especially the trees look cartoony. What's happened to the self-shadowing effect that adds depth on trees...? But in those screenshots above, it looks like there is shadowing and colour depth on trees, very different to the flat looking, one-colour, washed-out trees I'm seeing. I honestly thought the graphics settings were on low, but they are ultra. I went back to TSW2 and it looks so much better. But at least the trees in those screenshots look better than I appear to be seeing... That's weird. I turned HDR off in Windows settings and that helped a bit with overall appearance (although I don't usually need to disable it), but those trees are still flat, cartoony green in the bit I've played so far (start of SEHS).
     
  15. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I'm toying with refunding already... I thought I might wait for release day, to see what legacy routes now look like compared to their lovely TSW2 versions. I have 1 hour of gameplay left to stay within Steam's refund policy.
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    The game now looks so much better. Interiors are overbrighted, true, but overall just wow.
     
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  17. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100%. TSW3 looks way better than TSW2. I always hated those old dark, contrasty TSW-2-look (as shown in the screenshot in the first post of this topic).
     
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  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Still got to finish downloading and give it a try, as the wife has had me decorating most of the day!

    I always thought TSW2 looked too dark so I would actually welcome a brighter more TSC like appearance. However I agree the opportunity should have been taken to add far more graphics options or, at the least, brightness, contrast and gamma.
     
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  19. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Let's face it, we'll never agree on anything!! :D

    For what it's worth, I think the graphics and lighting are marginally improved and the sky box is way better. But some things haven't changed, like the headlights in Cajon are actually worse than those in SPG.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  20. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently it's very hard to please every single person here :D
     
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  21. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    It's the trees really. I can see shadowing and shading in the TSW3 screen captures above, but the bit I played last night, the trees looked like a flat, bright green. Very cartoony. Weird. I wonder if anyone else is seeing the same.
     
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  22. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Will they, though? As Matt said, they have all been "rebaked", and he's been using that term with regards to lighting.
     
  23. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Re the cartoony, washed-out trees I was seeing on the first scenario of SEHS last night, making me think my graphics settings were low, I've just seen several YouTube videos with trees along the routes that look like they always did, with shadowing and varying shades of green... So I'm itching to load it up again, to see if it was just that section of the route, or it really is something up on my end.
     
  24. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    49" widescreen.. :)

    It looks a lot better if I open a side window. So the window tint is definitely a problem. But where are the shadows in the cab?
    In the image shadows should be visible along the platforms, among other places.
     
  25. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Far better
    I noticed this as well, SEHS isn't as nice as the others, wondering if its partly due to being a rebaked route rather than designed from scratch for TSW3 lighting
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    About to give Cajon a go and compare with SEHS which I agree does look a little washed out and over bright.

    Edit: Well lovely as others have stated. Now if we could combine these graphics with the route length and gameplay from Run 8...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  27. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I've returned to it this evening. This time, I reactivated HDR in Windows settings, then I fiddled with Nvidia control panel contrast, gamma and brightness sliders – something I've never felt the need to touch, ever. Well, fair enough, it looks superb now. Trees look good again too.
     
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  28. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    One thing I did notice: there seems no luminance to the signals on SEHS, so I can't see them coming up without the HUD marker. On the new German route, they are more visible. In TSW2, I could see all signals clearly from a distance. Hopefully the legacy routes will have the same signal visibility they did in TSW2.
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I presume this is for the game, not global?
    Any chance of sharing the settings, might be worth a try see if it can tame the brightness level.
    I don’t really want to tweak my monitor or overall settings as everything else I play looks fine. In fact I changed my monitor not that long ago to brighten up some games that were a bit dark (it was still on factory settings).
     
  30. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    No, it's global. Sadly I don't think there's a way to change these per game...

    I'm not sure how much use it would be sharing the settings, as the appearance is going to be in conjunction with my Bravia 4K TV settings, which I don't want to mess with, as they are set for the 4K Blu-ray player through the same HDMI port. At least for other games (unless they look good with the control panel adjustments as they are now) I can just reset the Nvidia settings to default as they were before. At the moment, I'm playing through a PS5 game (which I can play in short bursts and save ;) ) before I move on to one of my PC games that isn't TSW, like maybe Death Stranding next. Funny, I almost regretted buying Death Stranding because I found I couldn't save it whenever I wanted – but that is only true up to a point; after a certain early chapter, it turns out you can indeed save at any point of gameplay, like every good, modern game.

    Anyhow, I can indeed note down the settings if you want me to, when I'm back on my PC, although your experience may vary.
     
  31. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, if legacy routes don't look as good as they do in TSW2, I will leave TSW2 installed for those routes, and use TSW3 for the 4 routes in deluxe edition (I never bought SEHS or Spirit of Steam, so it was a good deal to get 4 "new" routes with the bonus of dynamic weather, etc.) I mean, I would have liked the dynamic weather with the old routes but if they look/run better in TSW2, I'd rather stick with that.

    At least we know save is definitely being fixed and reinstated in TSW3, so I won't have wasted my money buying these new longer routes. Right? :D
     
  32. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    Sunny summer days look way better in TSW3 than TSW2.

    A clear sunny summer day at noon in TSW2 is too dark. Almost like 7am instead of noon. TSW3 at the same time looks washed out at first because it’s brighter then TSW2, but if you walk around outside on the same type of day 3 is a lot closer to reality.

    I actually had the same realization on TSW2 in SPG vs HSC. When HSC came out I thought it looked washed out and unrealistic compared to SPG. Then I visited both those areas in real life in summer (they are within an hour of eachother) and found HSC actually looks a lot closer to real life as far as lighting and colours.

    For people that think TSW3 looks washed out on sunny days my best advice is to go outside on a similar day and compare what you see with the two games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Bright sunny day on SKW also looked washed out, the sun effect actually dazzling off the ICE-1 control desk.

    I also briefly loaded up a Class 66 run on SEHS and had a weird ghostly fog hanging just in front of the loco.
     
  34. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realise the washouts happened in midday - that makes much more sense now.
     
  35. Easy301

    Easy301 Active Member

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    Can you expand more on or point me in a direction where I can read more about this debate? It seems really interesting as those things can sometimes be when it comes to drama in the railroad community.

    Edit: I think I found something that goes pretty deep into the issue: http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieslococolour.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  36. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    On the SEHS route, on the first scenario at least (I didn't get to look much further than this yet), it is the outside that's washed out – but as I said, I'm referring to colours, like the colour of the trees especially. I know what a bright sunny day looks like. There is a stark difference between bright lighting and washed-out colours.
     
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  37. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I agree that under the brightest of lighting conditions, SEHS looks more washed out than the others, with the trees looking especially strange. I don't know if SKW has the same problem. The lighting fits Cajon perfectly.

    Cheers
     
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  38. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    As this is technically an old route remastered, it concerns me that my legacy routes will suffer in the same ways, but it does sound like all they have is dynamic weather, not new lighting – but then what does Matt mean by they are rebaked? One big issue for me inSEHS is that signal lights do not show as actual lights now, just a flat red/green with no apparent luminance, so I can't see them distantly. Signal lights were perfect, I thought, in TSW2.
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I guess we will find out tomorrow how much the old routes differ in appearance with the core changes.

    However something definitely needs to be done about the midday lighting and in terms of fixes would probably rate that as No.2, just below restoring the save game.
     
  40. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    They said that putting the new lighting into the old routes would take like 3 years if they spent nothing but redoing all the lighting in all the routes

    TSW2 routes will only be getting dynamic weather - other than that, no new changes.
     
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  41. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I do think that the lighting is actually a lot better. It’s definitely not perfect but it is much better.

    I think the major issue is the eye adaption, which is all over the place. It looks good coming out of tunnels, but is causing the game to look completely washed out for too much of the time. It’s also making things like instruments and screens look really odd and unrealistic, and causing odd initial transitions switching to outside views under some circumstances.

    There is currently a mod on TSC that improves things significantly (option 1a in my opinion is perfect), but the byproduct is that all the PIS looks too dim. I think it’s probably worth the trade off, because without that mod quite a lot of the SEHS journeys are almost unplayable. It’s bordering on painful to look at at times.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. AMD Radeon card software allows customized brightness/contrast/gamma on a per-app basis.
     
  43. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I'm reminded of why I disabled HDR on my XBox, after trying it and then firing up Assassin's Creed Odyssey which had no ingame HDR calibration options, and although HDR looked great on titles like Observer and my monitor's calibration was perfect for several other XBox games' HDR implementations, that game looked like a blizzard had hit all over Greece with how white everything was, and it made it literally unplayable without setting my monitor to absurd extremes that made it impossible to properly see the XBox menus.
     
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  44. I can agree that the trees on sehs look far worse than the trees on tsw2 for some reason. Also setting my screen percentage below 200% makes everything blurry, which is not a problem if you have a beefy graphics card. Cajon and the German route though look out of this world.
     
  45. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder if SEHS is actually more how TSW2 content is going to look. The eye adaption seems out of control on that route, and it seems worse on the TSW2 bits of the route, on the TSW2 units. It’s the worst looking of the routes for sure.
     
  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the issue here may be how the windscreen on the locos is applying an effect to the graphics. Here are two views of the same scene on Cajon, one inside the cab and the other from exterior view...

    Cajonext.jpg CajonInt.jpg

    The difference is quite startling. Some work urgently needs to be done on the masking or filtering effect cab windscreens have on how the world is seen. Reminiscent of how some locos in Trainz really give a washed out faded look to the scenery when driving from the cab. I'm assuming this will be an issue across all the routes and motive power and possibly the legacy stuff too.

    Oh and as an aside, tell the Cajon route builder he needs to look at his distant mountains as there is a noticeable missing chunk in the centre left background!
     
  47. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Is that not the eye adaption rather than anything on the windscreen itself?
     
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It could be, in which case how do we switch it off or at least tone it down?
     
  49. Tomorrow will tell for sure, I was hoping they would let the preservation crew at it, they done a great job with GWE sorted both the tracks and tree rendering issues. If you look at the trees in Cajon Pass they render out of view. Hoping this is the new standard. The track rendering on sehs is my main concern.
     

  50. Yeah that is a big difference, I cant help but notice half a mountain in the distance either. Some objects seem to be missing in the cab view as well.
     

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