Save?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by LastTrainToClarksville, Sep 3, 2022.

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  1. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I have not been able to find a way to save a session -- does one exist? If so, how?
     
  2. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They made the worst of all possible worlds choice to remove the semi-functional save completely, meaning if you get a random crash an hour and a half into a service, sucks to be you, there's no option that might possibly help you.
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Various threads about this but remains an ongoing concern of mine despite having folded and repurchased the game.

    Matt P has stated in another thread it is getting priority and one major core bug has been identified but much work still to be done.

    I remain of the opinion that the old save feature should still be available to those of us who want to take a chance.

    There was another post somewhere about using some sort of UE unlocker to bodge a save function but I haven’t caught up with how successful that might have been. However we shouldn’t have to go to those lengths to enjoy what should be a basic feature of any modern game.
     
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  4. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Ditto! Drop everything else until this Sim has a save function available. Selling TSW3 without this is like selling - - - hmmm . . . I just can't think of anything worse.

    Anyone who has not purchased TSW3 yet should refuse to do so until a workable save is added !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  5. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you - but I rarely used save in TSW2 - (only the occasional time to bypass bugs), and am thoroughly enjoying TSW3 right now. I think it has to be a personal choice weighed up on an individual level... I don't think there's a right answer to this, it will have different priorities for different people.
     
  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's ridiculous to launch a game in this day and age without a save feature. And I also agree that the current save game should be retained until a more reliable version can be developed. The reason for its withdrawal has not been adequately explained. There's something they're not telling us.

    But, you know, this is is what happens when you ignore a problem for so many years. It doesn't go away. Like ignoring a warning light on the dashboard.

    But, I'm giving DTG a little space to fix it because, frankly, I don't know what else to do. It's their game and I bought it even though I could have held out.

    But we should keep reminding them like a brass band outside a hotel room until it comes back.
     
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  7. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    It’s unacceptable to produce a game without a save function just like just about every game in the past 30 years
     
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  8. richard cooper

    richard cooper Active Member

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    I agree .I would not have bought this game ,if I had known there wasn't a save function. Playing tsw 2 I used to save regularly,I thought saving worked definitely more often than not. Please incorporate a save as a matter of urgency.
     
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  9. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I watched a guy stream the game with 2600 followers while I was working. He failed the ice breaker scenario because he stopped about 10 meters too late and ran the red signal in wurtzburg. Too bad he didnt have a save to reload to not have his time wasted
     
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  10. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    It's certainly on my list of purchase prerequisites.
     
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  11. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I want this game so badly I’ve been waffling the past couple days to get or not get the deluxe version save or no save.

    why because I’m a train fanatic and this game is nirvana. Im the president of a train club. I operate on several model railroads. I watch virtual railfan while I work. On a lark last Christmas I searched for train in the store and found tsw2 I never knew the game existed. It’s been my dream since I was a little kid to drive the trains. I bought the game and loved it so much I started buying up the dlc packs and the locos until I had nearly all of them.

    I remember early on in the game I did my first complex scenario got more than an hour into it and messed it up that I had to abandon it. I didn’t have a save file to restore because it didn’t know and didn’t even look for one. I was very frustrated that I lost all that time and all that progress.

    then I discovered the save and never made the mistake again. 285 levels and 4 million ability points later I play the game nearly every day. I have so many entries on the timetable to do I may never finish …. And I’m ok with that. That and the fact that tsw3 has longer routes changeable weather better lighting and better timetables … dear lord I want to play it so badly.

    but to buy tsw3 right now without a save function of any kind even one that isn’t 100% reliable … I’ve been burned twice by it but the time and aggravation savings far outweigh that … means that I’m signing up to intentionally open myself up to that frustration. I don’t want to get frustrated playing a game I love so much.

    I really like the idea to make the save configurable with a warning if you turn it on. That way people like me who rely on it and are willing to live with its imperfections can dive right into tsw3 and play. Others who don’t care as much about the save can leave it off if they choose. And finally anyone who complains about a broken save can be told sorry but you were warned it doesn’t always work.

    please dtg listen to your fans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  12. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I downloaded it last night for TSW3... But decided against installing it, in case it buggers something else up. But Matt did say it will work (just use at your own caution).
     
  13. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I’m afraid to even try it on my Xbox … if it can even be done on an Xbox.
     
  14. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    The overwhelming opinion, nay, demand, from the user base is to turn on the save function yet DTG continually act like the donkeys on their routes and stubbornly refuse to listen to their customers.

    For Frigga’s sake DTG, just re-instate it if only to shut us up.
     
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  15. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing something like that would only work on PC? I'm on PC, Steam version. I guess if something goes wrong, the worst I'll have to do is uninstall the mod then reinstall TSW3 to make sure anything rogue is cleared out. Especially when they officially reintroduce the save function. I think it'll be worth it while we wait.
     
  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I'm just about to get the game up and running having finally finished the bit of decorating (note to self, don't buy B&Q own brand paint as it's watery as hell and so far needed 3 coats hope it doesn't need a fourth). I'll probably plod around in vanilla at first but once I start hitting the longer runs, it may be time to give the hack a try.

    However the very fact we can use the UUU command (whether or not it works in the ini) and MP has given the "user beware" caution, just makes it even more silly not to put the old function back with a similar caveat.
     
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  17. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    Well before now, I decided to save myself some money, and certainly some aggravation, by not purchasing TSW3, because of the missing save function. And, also, because I only want SEHS right now, and don't feel like purchasing something else to get my "free upgrade."

    So I'm not upset, because I didn't buy. However, I might have been upset had I purchased TSW3, expecting to find a save function that isn't there. And why wouldn't I? It hasn't worked 100% for years, but apparently that didn't warrant a fix, let alone removal. Not, that is, until a "new" game was released. And, really, if you weren't watching the streams and forums closely, how would you have known?

    There is nowhere to go from here. DTG didn't ask the player base if removal was an acceptable option, and they don't know when save will be back, or what routes will have it when/if it does come back. Some players have said they don't care about the save function, while others do but still got TSW3 anyway. In fact, I don't like to say it but if I were DTG, perhaps I would have done the same thing, knowing that the game will still sell, and then of course you could always say that save isn't even important because the game still sold anyway.

    My only advice to others would be that TSW2 still has save, and I haven't seen a huge difference between TSW2 and 3; and, of course the difference will be much, much less for TSW2 routes on TSW3, mostly just missing the "Eventual Rain" function. Plus your progress will carry over to TSW3 for any future purchase. If you're already driving in TSW3 however, all I can really say is what I've said before: good luck!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  18. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    No save, no migrarion to TSW3.
    Respect my lifetime

    I hope the Ludmilla and BR420 will be available for TSW2, Maik Goltz ?
     
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  19. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Seems pretty unlikely - DTG will be doing everything they can to drive everyone to TSW3 now. Maik's trains are probably some of the best in the game so having them exclusively available in the latest version seems like a no-brainer from a marketing perspective.
     
  20. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Well-Known Member

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    Seemingly no-one has taken into consideration that maybe the reason for not implementing the broken save system from TSW 2020/2, is that it might cause more problems than it's worth attempting to fix it later (hence why it's never been fixed in the previous titles), and therefore it will be easier, and safer, to insert a fully working save system once it has all been figured out.

    I know that not everyone has the time to watch every stream, and DTG certainly aren't the best when it comes to communicating, but it has been said prior to release that not only had the save system not been fixed, but that it had been gutted entirely from TSW3 for the time being.
     
  21. rober

    rober Member

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    Forget about new DLCs on TSW2.
    And sorry to say but pre releasing only the new routes and leaving out the save function have been completely RIGHT decisions.
    All the feedback they are receiving now would be contaminated with bugs in old routes that everybody knows and bugs caused by the save function.

    At the rate they are fixing the most important bugs I would say the want to make a statement that tsw3 is gonna be less buggie than tsw2. Old routes are just compatible we will see what treatment they receive, but I would expect this kind of maintenance only for new routes going forward.
     
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  22. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I think in a way it was the right decision to take it out for now, but I think based on past experience of "all talk, no walk" people have been nervous it will never actually be fixed and reinstated at all, and then we have been duped and wasted our money investing in longer routes for which we need save game to experience in full (we meaning those of us who will never, perhaps, have enough free time for one long play session).

    But, Matt is Executive Producer now, and that is a major difference. Pre-Matt as EP, there was only silence on the save feature. He has not only acknowledged it, he has made clear statements, set up a bug data collection spreadsheet, and, yesterday, gave a solid progress update to say they have already fixed one core issue with it.

    So I am confident it will be fixed and reimplemented now. And I know he mentioned the possibility of running into a doozy of a bug, but even if they do it will be fixed. And if any of the programming team tell him it's too hard/impossible at any stage, with all due respect he should then be looking to hire experienced developer help with it, because there's no logical reason it can't be fixed at all. So I doubt that it will come to that, and we will see its return in weeks or, at worst, only a few months.
     
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  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Just curious if anyone has tested the UUU method of saving and loading, is it working okay?
     
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  24. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know this before I try it myself. I might have to use it. I've not actually done a complete scenario yet; already too long lol Especially as most my time has been spent fiddling with settings so far. I did try quick play briefly, and it threw me into Spirit of Steam – with no tutorial, so that was pointless lol On that note, didn't Sam say that quick play will always take you to a tutorial scenario first, if you've not used that train yet, which I thought was a great idea. But it seems it was just an idea, and hasn't panned out in implementation...
     
  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Personally (I may be an anomaly) I’ve used the save function since the very first train sim world less than 20 times. I forget it’s there
     
  26. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I understand, but these comments about individuals not needing save add no value, because the discussions are solely relevant to those of us who do use and need it. Matt rightly said not to worry, as he knows it's necessary and doesn't take into account feedback from those who don't see the necessity.
     
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  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Well I’ll beg to differ. Feedback in its very nature is not a uniform voice. Stating a discussion is only relevant to those affected is a highly excluding statement. I have the same software as you, I just view the functionality differently. Would it be useful yes, do I need it, perhaps for the longer routes yes, am I concerned immediately, no. I don’t think people should stop sharing their views on a loco or route because they don’t use as much as someone else for example.

    You’re effectively saying only your opinion counts which is an interesting view in itself on a discussion board
     
  28. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to, but the save function has not really been gutted from TSW3. Everything is still there, it's just the option that has been removed from the UI (Matt has confirmed this as well). That's why the UUU method is potentially available. If you are suggesting that save might have worked even worse on TSW3, then you could be right. However, that would still be on DTG for developing a "new" TSW title without incorporating a working save as part of said development.
     
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  29. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    Well the "old" routes will be available in 2 days, so I suppose we'll see about that. However I do suspect that you are right about DTG wanting to avoid criticism, and in this respect I have to agree their plan has worked. TSW3 has come in for a fair amount of praise so far, with relatively fewer complaints about save. This is personally unfortunate for me, because DTG has been rather disincentivized from fixing save now. But if the majority of the player base agrees that taking out save was the right call and/or states that they don't miss it anyways, then I might be playing TSW2 for longer than I thought!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course you have a right to express your opinion, but surely you don't expect DTG to not fix save game because a significant number of people don't use it? In that sense, your opinion will not affect the outcome.

    That would be like DTG not fixing the 64GB download limit on PS5 because some players don't find it to be a burden and have said so. They will fix it regardless.
     
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  31. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course I foresaw your response to my comment. I'm not actually saying only my viewpoint counts, nor am I even implying that. I am simply participating in said discussion myself, yes with my opinion that such comments add no value. But of course anyone/you can continue to make such comments; that is absolutely fair for you to say.
     
  32. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Like reporting to a car manufacturer that they needn't worry about the faulty Isofix fittings in their latest model because you don't have kids and never have cause to use them. They still need to sort it or people will definitely stop buying...
     
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  33. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Just to confirm, save is a required feature, there's no incentivisation required, we are working on fixing it and will be ramping up further as there is opportunity to bring in more people to work in parallel. There's no debate needed on this point. Please don't worry about that :)

    Matt.
     
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  34. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    And this is why I felt confident enough to buy TSW3. Thanks for the updates, and the commitment.
     
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  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes I shall amuse myself with the < 50 min runs so far as possible and hopefully it won't be too long.

    On the bright side if we do finally get a robust save system it will finally be possible to work on doing a complete driver's shift keep going for a typical 7 to 9 hour day (or night).
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  36. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    Yes something like this would be great and for me personally would be a game changer. Just thinking about it makes me almost want to go and purchase TSW3 right now.

    Almost.
     
  37. I've never really used the save function. I've used the reload last checkpoint though and I can say I'm really starting to miss it. :(

    Even when I've gone hard-core and got up at 5am to be a train driver for the day, load last checkpoint is a really handy feature.
     
  38. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    Reload from last checkpoint? How does one do this ?
     
  39. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I felt the same way after Matt talked about the Rail Driver some time ago, now look at it, it is a mess.
     
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  40. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Might be a PC thing. Doesn't exist on consoles, though it would be a welcome addition.
     
  41. On the pc after a scenario failure you can load the last auto save. I think it auto saves after certain events. Not anymore though.
     
  42. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    Ok it’s a pc thing. I play on Xbox.
     
  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think it basically saved at each stop or key action point, sort of an autosave feature if you will.
     
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  44. I thought saving a game state was a relatively simple process?
     
  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not according to DTG! I guess it has to save the full details of your train including location and position and cab controls, plus any AI trains and the state of the signalling. Anecdotally, Run 8 gets around this by simply having all the trains stationary on resuming the game, including the player train, so they all have to get going again. You also have to switch the despatcher back on if you were using it.
     
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  46. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    It's never been very good at saving the state of everything which is why we run into problems. In the Baby Bullet, for example, it saves the position of the reading light switch, but not the light bulb state. If you reload a run, the switch will still be on, but the light off so you have to flick it off and back on to see what you're doing. Of course, that's far less drastic than those pesky abandoned trains in front of you which 'forget' that they had a driver and a destination when you saved...
     
  47. marco5

    marco5 New Member

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    I was surprised to see TSW3 supports quick resume on Series X. Because TSW2 doesn’t.

    And it has worked perfectly for me.
    Just pause the game, turn off the Xbox and resume later.
     
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  48. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    This surprises me as well. Very interesting.
     
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  49. From what I can understand, forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm not a programmer. It's done In the same way as taking a screenshot.

    You press save and a snapshot of all that technical jargon hidden behind the gui is saved, then when you load the game it loads it in the state that was saved.

    Again this is just a guess. If you save, say when the delicate dispatcher is in the middle of dispatching a train or at the point a signal changes from red to green or vice versa, then this would be where the problem lies, but it's all just a guess.
     
  50. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    DTG explained it a bit in one of the streams. The game needs to track what has happened to the trains the signals and the switches in the order they happened and then restore them in the correct order when the save is restored. At least one of the problems is the order is not being restored correctly and that results in trains going out of sequence causing you a red light that can’t turn green. I’m a programmer but I don’t know their software. It may or may not be hard but it’s more than a simple screen shot example.

    for example if this list of things that has to be done in the correct order is in some kind of table or array and then the array is read in the incorrect sequence …. Say by a time stamp … then it’s possible to read the table or array incorrectly if multiple rows have the same identifier … say a time stamp … but if you add something absolute to the table or array … like a sequentially created integer …. Then you can sort the array or table by the timestamp and then the number as a secondary sort. This would always return the right sequence

    this may or may or may not be part of their problem or may in fact be completely off base. But it is the type of thing they’ll have to do
     
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