Tsw 3 Disappointment Or Wow?

Of course my opinion is better informed if I take into account views from all sides and evaluate them all equally. I form MY own opinion which you would know if you lad properly read replies I’ve made further up this thread.

Of course you dislike him that much is obvious it’s clouding your sense of fairness. Again if you followed this thread more carefully the last video of his that I posted was indeed out of date but was a follow on from discussions players were having about the validity of simUK’s views / videos. Which part of this don’t you get?

Your at work? What a good job you’ve got if your finding the time to constantly argue with me. But seriously don’t watch it mate because you will obviously be wasting your time because you’ve already ( Wrongly imo ) pre judged the poor guy.

Yes I wrote a full paragraph based on a word I mistook for a typo or predictive text mistake because..,. Oh you know what never mind! Shhheeesh!

 

I don't know him so how can I dislike him?
Applying emotion to someone you have never met often leads to failure. I would suggest you stop doing so. I am actually going to listen to the stream on my long drive home in a minute and will see whether it will be what I expect
Another commentary on the failures of DTG to optimise, improve, test and implement changes to their games which people want
Ie what we see on these forums all the time

Maybe don't do that (or just ask if I mean the word I typed). Given the remainder of the post is (hopefully) lacking in autocorrect errors (given I'm on a PC at work and it doesn't have autocorrect) it would be safer to assume that was the word I intended.

Anyway, I'm off for a while now. Do read my footer if you want to know why I enjoy coming on these posts and I'm sure I'll have some matters of agreement and disagreement with "Mr Sim"

 

Ask you what you meant? Who are you? Are you someone so important that I have to doubly check to make sure what you meant. LOL! It’s the internet pal people respond to things instantly and sometime pick things up wrong. Get over it.

Again seriously don’t bother listening to simUK’s video and just enjoy your long drive home. I’m predicting your such a [removed - JD - antagonistic] language who will say he has said nothing you didn’t already know anyway. Guess what though some of us don’t claim to know everything and find simUK’s views interesting and sometimes informative.

 

I will be doing so yes. I want to do the PS5 version, Xbox Series S and the PS4 (on a PS5) and when I eventually set the PS4 Pro upagain (I haven't used it in a year!!!!) then I will also do that one as well in streams.

Hentis

 

Thanks that will be great and even though you will be using a PS5 instead of an actual PS4 it should still give PS4 players a rough idea of what they are buying. Both myself and other PS4 players will appreciate it.

 

Well, if you'll manage to "ressurect" your PS4 Pro and will plan to stream TSW3 on it, please give us a short notice about it. Might be in this thread: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw3-stream-on-ps4.57802/
Thanks in advance

 

I see now that we're talking past each other. I was approaching this as someone trying to use valid points and argumentation to convince others of his point of view. I did that as it's somewhat related to what I do professionally. In that case, presentation is important and no, slick businessman isn't any better. You seem to be (do correct me if I'm wrong) approaching it as someone simply voicing his opinion based on valid points. Simply different points of view.

 

Yep I only have tonights stream to sort out in the morning and then photograph & film a railtour, So will get the PS4 dusted off and updated then. I need to find the External drive I think I put TSW 2 on... I think.

I will stream on the PS4 pro but it will more than likely be a couple of days later. Will see how things work out.

Hentis

 

Hang on, weren't you the one saying I had to listen to someone else's point of view before forming an opinion of them rather than jumping to conclusions? And you couldn't even be bothered to check the wording before responding...

Oh, I listened, and wish I hadn't
You're correct, there was NOTHING in that video I hadn't heard before, mainly because I've been on these forums since before TSW came about and the arguments in the video were the same discussed on this forum and others back then.

But I would say... I would happily never listen to that guy again, why? Because he's a hypocrite
The main thrust of the arguments I CAN agree with. DTG should do more "object oriented programming" so they can make core systems work for each country and then only ever update that core. I can see this for things like track, signalling, certain lineside assets or functionality where it works as it works and then doesn't need anything else done to it unless you add more functions (such as colour light signals, semaphore signals etc and then you add on TPWS or speed control signalling)

I can agree that DTG DID promise a lot when TSW was first released, that they haven't always worked on what the consumer base wants, that they do have multiple versions of the same train and they don't update them all. I can agree with What DTG have done because they've all been spoken about since before TSW existed. Google "dovetail flywheel" and read some of the reviews from former DTG employees. Read the reviews on steam or on here or on facebook, reddit etc and they'll all say the same as he does, and I do, and I'm sure you do

The problem I have with the way this guy talks is he doesn't actually use his programming knowledge to explain the problems these things cause. Not once does he mention that if you change the way a loco physics works you also have to change the underlying timetable which might make it harder or even impossible for people to earn medals or achievements.
Not once does he mention that if you change the timings of a scenario you could also negate a critical interaction within that scenario (such as a blocking train which now is five minutes later than it was, so not longer a blocker)
Not once does he mention that object oriented programming is NOT a saviour and indeed just as "one fix can fix the whole game" one bug can ruin the whole game too, and we know what DTG is (or has been) like for testing...

But YUKSIM's problems start very soon into the video. He mis-names Sam the whole way through the video, on purpose and for effect. He bangs on about object oriented programming, but can't settle on a figure for how much workload this would save DTG, it seems to vary between 25 and 75%. He goes on at length about how DTG should concentrate on the big ticket fixes and make sure the core's stable, oh but don't forget to add this controller, or this head set and why are you working on clouds, but you really should have multiplayer.
For pete's sake pick a lane and run with it guy... you lambast DTG for saying they'll do something and then not do it, and you can't even be consistent within a 95 minute long single video.
YUKSIM seemed to like Adam, and yet within 30 seconds of saying that called him a liar then agreed with him again. He went on about how Sam might be someone who's "on the side of the community" but then how Sam was obviously being misleading time after time
And then you get to the comment of "I'm not saying DTG are buying upvotes". I think YUKSIM said that four times in the video... it might have been three. I was too busy yelling at him by then for being a feckless unfocussed know it all who couldn't stick to a story. He said several times that he had the utmost respect for Matt and yet Matt was the one promising the editor, multiplayer etc back in the day. It was Matt that did the Editor into stream! I'm fairly sure that this guy would have known that (or could have easily looked it up in the same was as DTG could easily have renamed their YouTube channel whilst streaming)

Overall his general thrust WAS fine. DTG do make mistakes, they have coded themselves into corners, they have announced or promised things and not delivered, they did allow the West Cornwall route, and make a 70s themed pack on a route with OHLE... I could go on (Reigate) but we all know the issues. And that's the biggest thing with YUKSIM. Almost a third of the video is spent with him justifying his mouthpiece. Yay, he worked for Microsoft and Sony (but not games, just other stuff) and Yay he did playtesting for DTG and did reviews as well, but then they took his toys away (probably because he kept telling people to boycott them) and that came across as bitter and obviously affected him, unfortunately I would have cut his feed of free software off too if he obviously disliked it that much. There's a difference between "controlling the narrative" and "not feeding the trolls"

So, now I've done what you said I should and I've watched the video, agreed with what I agree with (which I did before I watched it) and I have now formed an informed opinion on the guy.

• I don't like him

because he doesn't stick to his own arguments, and that's just annoying

 

See! That wasn’t hard was it. You’ve actually made the effort and watched the guys video and made an informed opinion about it / him . You’ve agreed mostly with what he basically says ( I think ) but don’t like his attitude and that he flip flops about etc. At the end of the day that’s all I was asking from people especially when I posted the video from 2021. Yep his attitude comes across as a bit superior in a way and he can character assassinate too much at times but don’t take this the wrong way you yourself very often come across as superior on this forum as well. Still you have made the effort and I can now respect and consider your opinion better.

I only been playing TSW since march 2021 I think so I far from know everything about this games workings. I’m just interested in what different people have to say about this games failings, successes, problems, and plans, as well peoples views on its creators. I can look past peoples personal failings and presentations simply because if I were to let any of that put me off something I’d be doing myself a disservice and them tbh by not giving anyone whoever they are the chance to say what they want to say. Tbh I feel I did learn a few things with regards to what SimUK was saying.

SImUK is divisive despite what you said earlier ( No real need for you to call him YUCKSIM btw. Aren’t you just sort of doing what you say he does? ) but there is no denying from a layman’s point of view I found myself agreeing with some of his observations with regards to the forthcoming TSW3. It might be wrong or it might be right to come to those conclusions? but either way the time REALLY has come for DTG to actually get this game right, properly working and reliable, and to stop often fleecing it’s fanbase. I think both of us and everyone else can certainly agree on that.

 

Here's the thing. The guy HAD the chance to say what he had to say. He worked with DTG, he had "multiple conversations with Matt P" (said by him in the vid) but then he went public several times saying to other people to boycott DTG products. So he still has a voice. His channel is regularly putting out content on all sorts of sim games. He's not silenced here. What he has no longer got is free access to the games or DLC

Divisive usually means "splitting", ie there are people who like him and people who dislike him. Given I haven't seen or heard from him in ages I would say he's NOT divisive purely because nobody is speaking about him (and yes, I did that for effect and to make a point, something you confirmed by asking the question, and emulating him who did it for effect throughout the video)

Oh no... you're VERY right to come to those conclusions, and to look at and review what DTG say and how they do things NOW and have done things in the past. You should do that in every single interaction you have in your life be it in business, in who you work with, buy from, family friends and relationships. It kind of stops you being surprised when someone kicks you in the backside and you didn't see it coming (even though the signs have always been there). In DTG's case in the past they have said many many things they wanted to do, put things on the roadmap and not closed them out, made statements and even posts about things they ended up not doing (editor) and changed tack without acknowledging this, buried their head in the sand and ignored anyone who said "What about...?" until the shouts become to loud occasionally. Similarly anyone who's been here a while knows DTG do this, and whether it grates or not they also know what DTG are like, but we all like a rant occasionally, right?

I'm not going to utterly disagree here, but as someone who's been around the DTG sphere for a long time I won't be holding my breath, mainly because I'll be dead in my grave a long time before "they get this game right" because I really don't think they will, but here's something to consider.
You get a lot of commentators on this forum, on YouTube, on Reddit etc telling DTG how to do things, how it should be, how easy it is to get some things to work, and yet none of them, none of the big software companies, not even Microsoft (who started this whole train sim thing which ended up at TSW) got it right, because train simulation isn't just a complex beast, it's many interacting overlapping complex beasts that all need to work properly to look even half right to anyone who's sat on a platform or in a rail carriage and taken notice of their surroundings.
So maybe DTG aren't anywhere near perfect (they're really really not), but they ARE the people who've consistently output content in a fashion that is playable for enjoyment (not a simulation per se) and that's where I personally sit with them.
If you're looking for the moon and stars then don't look here. If you're looking for somewhere to throw a train down a line then it's good enough

 

I disagree SimUK is divisive of course he is. His style of delivery. Points of views and whatever else are naturally going to split opinion. Some like him, some don’t, Just because he isn’t always on someone’s immediate radar doesn’t not make him divisive.

The guy will only really have his chance to say what he has to say and have whatever fairly considered if people are prepared to listen to him and not let their preconceptions about him put them off doing so. Simple as that.

When I question whether I’m wrong or right to form the conclusions about the forthcoming TSW3 I have it’s a valid comment because I’m a relatively new player to TSW so it is quite possible I might have got it wrong and will be ( pleasantly ) surprised when TSW3 appears. Then again I might be right which I certainly hope I’m not on this case. I always try and form my own conclusions about anything in life but with the best will in the world and armed with as much info you can acquire there is no guarantee you won’t be surprised or quite often get your backside kicked by not seeing something coming however much you question and prepare. Trust me I’ve been around the block a few times over the years, it’s called life.

When I say it’s time for TSW to get properly sorted and working by DTG I’m not expecting things to be 100% perfect because that would be totally unrealistic. What I am saying is they need to get TSW providing the basics like a properly working save feature etc and for the game to work in a way that doesn’t constantly cause complete frustration as it currently does. That’s really not a lot to ask. No one’s looking for the moon or stars and yes if you just want to throw a train down a track TSW does that job but that no excuse to provide a shoddy release in so many areas. You know it, I know it, all the players here know it, and DTG and it’s staff certainty SHOULD know it. DTG might well ( Currently) be the ones constantly putting out a train sim game for enjoyment but that’s no reason to take the proverbial P when it come to all the problems this game seems to have and which in a lot of cases can be fixed and improved according to our friend SimUK. Ha ha ( That very last part was a joke btw! )

Finally! Because everyone is probably getting bored with us both by now, I know exactly what you were doing calling SimUK YUKSIM and why. Me highlighting it wasn’t any kind of endorsement of your reason for doing it, quite the opposite in fact. I highlighted it because it was pretty disrespectful especially when I’m reading on here from you and others that’s exactly the kind of thing a lot of you don’t like about him. You can’t take the moral high ground if your prepared to do the same thing whatever your reasons for doing it were. Just saying.

 

For me personally, not being on anyone's radar makes him not divisive, but that's splitting semantics.

Oh, there's a difference between saying something and being heard, and there's also a difference between being heard and being listened to, or getting the reaction you want. In this case DTG probably heard what he had to say (we know this because they reacted by cutting off his supply of free stuff) but we can tell from his stream (ie he was saying what he wanted) that he didn't feel he got the reaction he wanted.
Just about everyone on this forum could say the same. We've all said "Hey we want THIS to happen", be it a route suggestion or a fix for an issue, and guess what? DTG likely haven't done completely what you asked for (unless there was a big post somewhere asking for a Scottish suburban route or specific cloud cover).
I also question the comment about preconceptions based on his repeated insistence that the video you posted was made ONE YEAR after he stopped playing the game or watching streams. He says repeatedly that he hasn't played or watched anything so might be out of the loop

That, and his insistence that object oriented programming will solve all of DTG's woes, which it simply wont. A lot MORE could be done more simply by not including it in the DLC (such as the skybox which DTG have now remedied so here's hoping they're learning) but it won't help in a lot of other ways where there ARE differences between how some things work (such as sound programming, specific route signalling etc)

Everyone's been saying that since day one. Nobody disagrees with that statement.

Oh, it totally CAN BE a lot to ask, because everything tasks time. I do some dev (database programming) and when the people I work for ask why it takes so long to do "such a simple thing as adding a date function to a table", and then you show them all the interactions it takes to input, output, format etc etc and they back off. Oftentimes what people think of as "simple" really isn't

Yes people DO ask for the moon and stars. Why isn't the track drawn to half a mile, why isn't there this input, that output, this train 400 mile routes, fifteen more countries, 1000 trains on every timetable yada yada. So yes they certainly do

And no, there's no excuse for shoddy work. Absolutely agreed, but to my mind there's also no excuse for a lack of perspective

A> definitely NOT taking any high ground here. I can be as childish as anyone else
B> If someone is disrespectful to others they should expect disrespect back, in spades, from every single person they interact with
C> YUKSIM definitely deserves it because he said right at the beginning that he knew Colonel Failure was Sam's YouTube handle, then spent the next 90 minutes calling him something else.
So yeah, I am happily disrespectful about SimUK's misnaming of a person who may or may not deserve better, but if I was to take the high ground I would do so on the basis that I haven't knowingly disparaged someone I admit several times I've never even met

 

Dearie me! Do you really not have any work to do?? LOL!

Have the last word on me fella because I’VE things I need to be doing. ROFL!

 

Man I checked this thread to see what people have been saying and all I see is text wall after text wall... My brain can't compute what's going on. Is there a short version?

 

In a word. NO!

 

There is a wise old saying about a certain type of person who is easily parted from their money. Now if only I could remember the exact wording of it...

 

Have to say wow for me. Loved my first run in it.
Although unknown at the time I unfortunately streamed the PS4 version on the PS5 and not the PS5 version.....

Hentis

 

Er i have no clue what was going on in the recent posts but for me it is a wow
Never thought seeing so much Quality from dtg lol

 

I am far from "easily parted" which generally presumes lack of information or assessment. I make my assessment on TSW and prefer to have it rather than not, but I only buy the DLC I want to... As an example I WANT TSW3, but I have no need for US or DE routes, so I'll get the SoS bundle on the 6th and I get SEHS anyway.
So not really a fool...

 

I like what I've seen so far, even though the Training Center with its locked rooms and no people feels off, just as a building. I have two small things, though: In the menus, especially when you only have two options to choose from, I'd like a clearer indication of what is selected and what isn't.
And: Using the PS5 controller, getting to the part of the menuscreen on the right where you finally select "Start" feels off because using left and right keeps you stuck in the left part of the screen; you have to select "up" und then "right" to get to it.

 

After the first few days I am happy overall, and looking forward to further updates and improvements to optimisation.

 

And it is a Wow from me.