Save

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by oleolm#7407, Sep 2, 2022.

  1. oleolm#7407

    oleolm#7407 New Member

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    Hi
    Right now Im in the center of the railroad of Cajun Pass map in TSW3. Been driving for quite a distance. But suddenly, my real life starts calling at me. I feel some tears trying to get trough… but… eehm…thats another story and not the point.
    I press option and triangle (ps5) like usual, but wait… What?!… Nothing there. The save feature isn’t there! Is it changed somehow?
     
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  2. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    There is no save feature in TSW3 at this time - until they fix it and bring it back on a route by route basis...
     
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  3. Observadorpt

    Observadorpt Active Member

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    If you see the streams, the roadmap etc etc etc of the last weeks you have see that the save option doesnt exists in tsw 3, only gonna have when they fix the save issues.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes, DTG kindly removed it as their response to complaints about it being occasionally unreliable in TSW2.

    There has been considerable discussion of the matter in other threads in the lead up to release, mostly ignored by DTG.

    They are supposed to be investigating a more robust save feature but there is no estimate if or even when this might appear in the lifespan of TSW3.

    It has been suggested the existing save at least be reinstated on an optional caveat emptor basis, but this has been stonewalled by the DTG suits.

    Cajon Pass is exactly the case in point where we need the save game. I really do not see myself buying the game until/if DTG restore it.
     
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  5. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    This is the problem for people who purchase based on previous features (albeit broken to an extent), who may not actively follow forum updates and streams (I don't for most games, because I can usually trust broken features will be fixed without an ounce of doubt). Clearly people expect and need it.

    TrainSim-Matt will hopefully, and appreciatively, give a solid update and fix release plan of some kind in the next live stream.

    I really like what I'm seeing of TSW3. I want to buy it, confident that save is being reintroduced and across every route (I mean TSW2 legacy ones, as well).
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It is also a bit disingenuous that the description of the game on Steam (and presumably the other platforms) omits to mention that there is no longer a save function in TSW3.

    I want to invest too but I'm a bit like the biblical "Doubting Thomas". I want to see the words, "Save will be back by xxx", before committing to purchase.
     
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  7. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    If it’s going to take awhile to fix is due to its complexity and if there is no technical reason not to keep the current save they should until they can fix it.

    I believe them too that they are on it but not having a save is a problem for me. Considering I can move my progress later I may keep grinding tsw2 achievements while I wait out tsw3 to become stable and have a proper set of features
     
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  8. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    And so it begins. The above post that I quoted, is just another example of the problems that removing the save function can cause, that I have observed so far, and I'm sure there will be others. Many others.

    I would probably still buy TSW3 if there was another route that I was interested in, besides SEHS which I already own. But that would only be to play the shorter services, in order to reduce the aggravation for the inevitable crashes.

    Save.

    Game.
     
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  9. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think you will hear save will be back by xxx unless they’ve fixed and have planned the patch. Or if they change course and restore the current save and have planned the patch.

    diagnosis of the problem then correcting the code and then a proper regression test is an inexact science. There’s no way they can speculate on a date.
     
  10. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    The only option at this point, is, if you are not going to be away for a while, hit the esc button to pause the game. It will just sit there and wait for you to come back and un pause it.
     
  11. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I am not going to give a date it will be back until I am very sure we can meet that date, so its likely it will be shortly after I give you the date.

    Work is ramping up now on Save, with one core issue resolved already. Lots more to do. QA team are going through the spreadsheet of feedback and reproducing those issues and adding logs and such along with raising tickets, and have sifted through the history, and are working closely with engineering.

    Content team(s) are not yet engaged, the process starts with engineering and then they will guide us on where content fixes are needed.

    I will continue to provide updates, but I will not be providing dates, they'd be false promises.

    Matt.
     
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  12. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    Some good points raised here today. Outside of the forums I don’t believe they make any mention of No Save. Pity the unsuspecting player who buys the game without realizing this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
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  13. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks, Matt. This is the kind of update I was hoping for at this stage. Good to hear that one core fix is already in place!
     
  14. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    As I said before, that is not good enough. It may take years to get this fixed. We really need some guiding on timeline. Will it be weeks, months, years?
     
  15. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    A really rough guide based on not having got far into the diagnostic and rix process? Small number of weeks? but don't quote me on that? If that helps, great. It might be more than that. It probably won't be less because it needs thorough testing. Depends what kinds of issues we come across. And please don't take that and say "small number of weeks, that means less than 5, ok, they're late after 5" because that's not what it's meant to be, it is exactly what it says and nothing more.

    Again, all I can do is provide running updates. If we hit a doozy and it is going to need months of rewrite, i'll be upfront about that (I'd guess that's low probability to happen however). If we find it's actually all two or three simple underlying issues, i'll be up front about that and be more prepared to indicate how close we are.

    I got thoroughly burned on the Addon Manager 64gb DLC fix for PS5 - which looked like a 4 week job, and here we are, many months later, and it's been worked on constantly now for months and is ongoing (albeit final testing and fixing, it's not out, and that's really all that matters here).

    Nobody here wants me to make a false promise that isn't based on fact, i'm sure, and I am unable to give anything useful or sensible on a timescale at this time other than it's being worked on and i'll give running updates as we go, and based on that we'll be able to get more clarity as things progress.

    Matt.
     
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  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Good as far as it goes Matt, but still not enough to convince me to part with £40.

    I really don't think it would hurt to reinstate the old system under caveat emptor as a temporary measure.

    Contrast this with Run 8 where I reported to them a little while ago I was experiencing judder and jinking on curves. Update 4 to V3 came out today and their programadero has fixed the problem. Now it might have been a fairly small change to the code, but the swift resolution gives me a positive vibe and an overarching desire to buy a couple more of their wagon sets and of course the Fitzgerald Sub when it comes out. And at least I can save my game when I want and as many times as I want... :)
     
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  17. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this. There is no way you can give a date before you know a firm schedule for the patch. If I were in your shoes (and I have been in your shoes) I would say the same things. I can’t speculate on a timeline until I know the exact tasks. Triage and diagnosis is an inexact science.

    It’s great to hear you’ve made some discoveries already and you are sorting it out.

    I am super stoked for tsw3 as it looks absolutely brilliant!
     
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  18. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    The only logical thing I can think of is that it’s a problem to replace the current save feature with the fixed version. They may want completely fresh code. If that’s the case the decision to remove the save is understandable. If not then I question the decision
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Or the old save system was worse in TSW3.
    But I know we have been stress testing it over the last couple of weeks in TSW2 and for me apart from one failure on WSR which is notoriously fickle anyway, I was unable to get it to fall down.
     
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  20. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve had two issues with it in over 10,000 miles of operations. One in sand patch grade it set the generator field to off and I had to quick set it back. Once while in a station the engine was shut off and couldn’t be restarted. I’ll wager I’ve had at least two dozen loads of saves without issue.

    my point is your testing is proving what I’ve known from playing the game almost daily the past 9 months
     
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  21. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    My updates are not intended as a sales tool, just to keep you all up to date. Please do wait until you're happy before you purchase.

    Matt.
     
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    To be fair it used to be very unreliable, sometimes it would fail to load the next objective data per the LH top corner of screen. But that hasn't been a problem for ages now at least not that I've come across. Even the Brighton Main line worked fine when I tested that.
     
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  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate that Matt and I'm sure at some point this will all come good.
     
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  24. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    Just a date won't be enough for me to committing to purchase. It will 1st need to be released and confirmed by players working.

    But anyway, even if the quick saving/loading is back, I'll wait for release of some new DLCs before committing to purchase. For this moment TSW2 has everything I need.
     
  25. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Active Member

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    Matt, thank you for your honest feedback on the save function for TSW3. I already have purchased TSW3 Deluxe in early access, but the save function is critical for me...I just make too many fatal mistakes to start a scenario over every time I do.

    Can I buy all the DLC I don't already own before Sept 6 and continue to play it in TSW2 using the save function, and then move it over to TSW3 when the save function is implemented. I know I'm stuck with the 4 new routes/content for TSW3 and can't play them in TSW2, but how about new DLC I buy for TSW2 before Sept 6? Can I keep using it in TSW2 after Sept 6 so I'll have a save function?

    Thanks!
     
  26. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    As I understand DLCs for TSW2 aren't being taken down from the sale, but just the core, so you can buy them anytime later, and not just before 6th September. They still will grant you TSW3 equivalents when you decide to switch to TSW3 sometime later, whether you purchase it before 6th September or after.
     
  27. Kitten

    Kitten Active Member

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    I don't have early access to try, but you can try Universal Unreal Unlocker to see if console commands still work:
    https://framedsc.com/GeneralGuides/universal_ue4_consoleunlocker.htm

    Run UUU and inject the dll when you are on the title screen of TSW3. Then try these console commands (you have to use ~ to open the console):

    ts2.ui.DeleteSaveGame
    ts2.ui.LoadSaveGame
    ts2.ui.SaveGame


    If these don't work try ts3 instead of ts2. Would be helpful for others to know if save/load can be done this way even if not officially supported currently.
     
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  28. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    It should be the same as in TSW2, as these commands were "ts2" in TSW2020 and TSW (more like to indicate it's Train Simulator 2 instead of RailWorks/Train Simulator "Classic" than the version of TSW).
     
  29. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Those are indeed the console commands, and they should work fine. Still "ts2" since this is still "ts2" (ts2 is tsw, regardless of which version of tsw).
     
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  30. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's wise for me to go down this path. Especially on a console. When DTG wants me to save I'll save.
     
  31. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    off topic i was watching a stream of the training center and clearly saw your headphones in one of the conference rooms. I think you're coffee is getting cold. I think the first thing I will do in the training center is get one train on the outer track of the outer loop full throttle then jump out of the cab. Then I'm going to get a second train on the other track and then same thing. Full throttle then jump out of the cab. Then I'll find a nice place to sit and watch the trains. My own little model railway TSW style.
     
  32. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I definitely don't recommend it unless you're normally someone who runs such things tbh, and save/load will work exactly as it did before, your mileage may vary. Usual cautions :)
     
  33. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt t, I can accept you don't like to get burned for making promises you cannot stand, but we had a game save. It is crappy but it saved me and many others still a fair number of times. May players have argued they prefer a crappy save function above no save function at all and we have lived with this over five years.

    It may be that new players do not understand it where a game save does not work, but at the moment I see lots of comments of people asking where the game save is.

    I want to decide by myself whether I will rely on a crappy game save function. You can even turn it off by default, create a setting to turn it on and add a clear warning to this setting. Why not? You would help a lot of people a lot. It also gives you time to work on a redesign in the pace that is possible and remove a bit of the pressure, and be assured I will put up the topic every week to set pressure on you if we have to and happily burn you and throw you under the bus and so if there is not a lot of progress. We simply don't want to wait months for a solution if we do not get any thing right now.
     
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  34. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Worth to try
     
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  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering if these values can permanently be added to the ini file to avoid using the unlocker each time?
     
  36. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t call the current save function crappy. It may not be perfect but it sure is useful.

    There’s been no reason we’ve been given as to why it can’t be there while they fix it
     
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  37. Retrovertigo

    Retrovertigo Member

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    Totally agree. I'm playing on Xbox Series X and would usually resort to the quick resume feature, but this game doesn't even work properly with that. I mean, if MS can adopt system wide function where a lot of games can be quickly resumed even after reboots etc, then surely it can't be that hard for a dev to sort their own game out?
     
  38. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Active Member

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    No save in TSW3 = no can play.

    Nearing the end of an hour long scenario in TSW3 last night, I ran past a red signal by a few feet as I came to a stop. Shame on me. But to have to start the scenario over again is too much of a penalty. I'm going back to TSW2 until there is a save feature in TSW3. Love what I'm seeing in TSW3 and the new routes, but the "Start the scenario over" penalty is a "no go" for me. Thank goodness I've got lots of content to play in TSW2!
     
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  39. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    DTG deafening silence on this topic. I am afraid they will stick to this very bad decision.
     
  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes they have our money. The refund window has gone by. All we can do is wait and hope they deliver on their promise…
     
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  41. Retrovertigo

    Retrovertigo Member

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    Gave a heads up on a forum I am a member of and already had thanks from several people who were going to purchase this but have now decided to wait. The fact that it was me that needed to notify them is messed up though.
     
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  42. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    It just proves how necessary, and wanted, the save game is.

    To give them their due, I've never seen them so attentive to an issue as they are now with save game. We're getting actual updates, with some detail. So I have every confidence it will be working and reinstated before long.
     
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  43. richard cooper

    richard cooper Active Member

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    I bought pre release,as soon as I found out no save function I contacted Microsoft refunds . They emailed me saying decision would be within 72 hours. that was 5 days ago and still waiting.
     
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  44. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Another thread related to this same topic includes several replies from Matt, basically stating that DTG is aware of this problem and working on including it in TSW3. I, too, really miss being able to save and continue, especially after having made an error while driving a long activity -- and in general the activities I've driven in TSW3 have been longer than many of those in earlier versions of this SIM. Not having included a save possibility in TSW3 strikes me as -- well, really negligent, but it's a fact, so we just have to live with it (and perhaps think more carefully) until one is provided.
     
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  45. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I am fully aware of Matt's point of view, but it is not acceptable and we should keep talking about it, and maximize pressure.
     
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  46. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    All happy last night as I had to end my run halfway done thanks to an interruption, thought the Xbox Quick Resume kept me safe.
    Turned my Xbox on today and loaded it up… to find out the Quick Resume failed, and the game reloaded from scratch, taking my lost run with it.
    No save game is madness.
     
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  47. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing your experience. Note at the steam forums I have seen three questions on the save function.
    DTG JD can you answer these questions by yourself till the game save issue is solved instead of leaving it to the community?
     
  48. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    It's not deafening silence. We've been responding to the threads we can.

    As far as I'm aware, nothing has changed. We don't want our game without a reliable Save function, but we feel it's the best decision whilst we investigate the problem. We're working on it as a priority, but in the interim won't be putting something in that has a variable chance of working.

    I know that's not what you want to hear, and it's not a popular decision for many of you. Matt has explained the reasoning and our next step, after we're out of the TSW3 launch window, is getting our heads down and delivering it to you, possibly on a route-by-route basis (if this is the case, we'd focus on Cajon first).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
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  49. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It is the wrong decision. New players do not understand that there is no save, there is not any indication when it will be fixed, it may take over a year. You can read in our posts how many issues it causes. It makes the game far less playable. Each time I want to play I have to consider carefully how much time I will have available to complete a service.

    Yes, we all know the game save does not always work properly, but we are already living with that five years now and we can live one year longer with it, knowing you are working on it. In 90% of the cases the game save will help a player out and by experience we know which routes cause most issues. People are free not to use it, but now you deny people that want to take the risk to do so.

    So I ask again, and I will keep asking to revise this stupid decision.
     
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  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well said Rudolf. I know we have the UUU workaround but it is exactly that and no substitute for the built in mechanism. What with that and the over bright graphics menace I am reluctant to spend much time on the game and really starting to regret spending my £40. Run 8 has been amusing me these last couple of evenings.
     
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