Spirit Of Steam Signalling

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by pterocles#7018, Sep 10, 2022.

  1. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    I just can not find a proper manual for the semaphore signalling of the Liverpool Crewe route.
    Is there any available?
     
  2. Does it not cover signals in training?
     
  3. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    Maybe I am missing the training what you mean but the training what I know it is very basic. I would like to see something more detailed.
     
  4. There's probably plenty of stuff online to explain british semaphores. I'm sure matt done a vid on YouTube covering semaphore signalling.
     
  5. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    Could you be more specific please? I have been searching for youtube/pdf/whatever.
    Is there any resource where this one and others like this is explained in details?

    upload_2022-9-10_18-22-20.png
     
  6. Veryfatbloke

    Veryfatbloke Member

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  7. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    Great, thank you. I hope it will worth the time and I can find the elements that can be useful for the Liverpool Crew route.
     
  8. That's a junction signal. Green on the left means pathed to the left and green on the right means your pathed to the right or straight on in the picture above.
     
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    However the distant arm is "on" (on this combined signal) so you must approach the signals controlled by the next signalbox expecting either the Home or Section signal (and any in between) to be at danger, as the distant can only be cleared if all the associated stop signals are clear.

    If you want to take a look at UK semaphore signalling from the signaller's point of view, all of the PC Rail products can be downloaded and used in demo mode for a short while, including the use of correct bell codes to and from adjacent boxes.
    PC-Rail Simulations (pcrail.co.uk)
    Enjoy!
     
  10. Ello_bobbie

    Ello_bobbie New Member

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    Does it actually work right though? I’ve seen plenty of distance at caution, only for the next signal to be off (I don’t even bother slowing for them now..)
     
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well that is another matter...

    Of course it could be that the train ahead (if there even is one) cleared the next section so the signaller was able to get line clear and pull off the section signal but after you passed the distant. Also as I noted it might not be the first (Home or Outer Home) at danger, it could be any of the signals within the control area of that signalbox (known as station limits, even where there isn't a station!) you pass through.
     
  12. Ello_bobbie

    Ello_bobbie New Member

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    Agreed, it’s all a bit odd. I just think it doesn’t work right ☺️

    If any of them are at danger, then the signaller should pull off each stop signal when the train is “at a stand, or nearly at a stand”? Ie if the section is at danger, then distant at caution, home then at red until train is at it, outer home at danger until train gets to it etc etc.

    will have to excuse me, it’s been 12 years since I done my absolute block rules ☺️
     
  13. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    I also noticed the distant signal is 'on' frequently and It didn't make sense to me either. There are no trains ahaed.

    If we get back to the screenshot for a moment, please explain me the two small signal arms under the distants both on, and also the single bottom red signal arm.
     
  14. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    I think this may be because the dispatcher is only reserving the route ahead as far as the next waypoint/station stop, probably a function of the way the timetable is set up rather than a problem with the signalling.

    The two signals underneath the distant signals are subsidiary signals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_railway_signalling#Subsidiary_signals), they would be used to let a train go past the signal at danger for the purposes of shunting, i.e. the route ahead may not be clear all the way to the next stop signal but it was safe for the train to shunt forward a short distance to access a siding. I don't actually know what the small arm at the bottom is for, I thought I knew quite a bit about semaphore signalling but I'm not sure on that one.
     
  15. I thought the small one at the bottom was the shunt signal? The way they varied up and down the country its amazing anyone can make sense of it.
     
  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do believe that is true. I have been retired from the (real) railway for nearly 4 years now so my rules and regs knowledge has lapsed too.
     
  17. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    A manual would be a good idea...
     
  18. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    Any idea guys about the small single arm at the bottom of the combined signal on the print screen picture above?
     
  19. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is - and I am happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable - that keeping the prior stop signals at danger and pulling them off once you have observed that the train is slowing down, is considered ‘good practice’ but is not an absolute requirement, and the Driver must (if the distant is at caution) expect all stop signals within the block to be at danger, even if the first stop signal is not held at danger in this way.

    The other thing I’m aware of is that, when clearing a stop signal when a later stop signal within the block remains at danger, signallers would pull the signal off slowly - i.e. they would physically pull the lever slowly, so that the signal arm rose slowly. This was an indication to the Driver that a later signal within the block was still at danger. As far as I’m aware this was never a formal instruction, but was done unofficially on a widespread basis to assist Drivers (and may still be done in areas with semaphore signals, although now not all semaphore signals are controlled by a physical cable connected to a manually operated lever, so it wouldn’t be possible at all locations).
     
  20. Screenshot_20220911-111402_Chrome.jpg
     
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  21. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

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    In this case I think the siding could be the one downslope right after the main junction.
    Thank you.
     

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