Vr Is Now Possible

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by robin00795, Sep 12, 2022.

  1. robin00795

    robin00795 New Member

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    Today is a big day for all of us VR users who have been waiting to use it in TSW..
    I present to you the unreal VR injector.
    You can play any unreal engine game in VR!
    Coming soon
     
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  2. shanesrenaski13

    shanesrenaski13 New Member

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    That'd be great! Not sure why Dovetail thinks VR isn't an important addition. The TSW series might be the only simulator without VR at this point in 2022.
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    The game is already a laggfest for most, so I would assume having to render it twice for VR will result in horrible performance even in powerful systems.

    But despite that, it sounds like a fun concept.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Only watch the above video if you like dialogue that doesn’t fit with the action, unnecessary swearing and watching people being completely turned into explosions of blood and guts. If you just like driving trains peacefully with no swearing, no guns, no blood, and no guts splattering in your face don’t watch the video.
     
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  5. jamster47

    jamster47 Well-Known Member

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    Based on the above comment (thank you) I won't bother watching the video.

    However if this add on is any good it may persuade me to buy tsw3
     
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  6. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    IF this works properly I wonder how long it will be before TrainSim-Matt is having some “off the record” tsw3 vr exploration at home
     
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  7. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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  8. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Great news for VR fans, hopefully by lowering settings it will be nice and smooth! Stuttering VR is no good, really. What people will immediately notice is the scale, everything in VR looks bigger, those gauges etc will be closer to reality in terms of size.

    Anyone tried it yet (I presume the alpha is functioning?)
     
  9. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    This. Scale is the thing that I think those people who haven't used VR don't appreciate. The way things absolutely fill your field of view is what makes the experience so different to playing on a normal screen. The demo disc that came with the PSVR had an underwater experience thing with a diving cage. When you're watching it on screen, you're like, "Oh, there's a shark", but when you're in the headset and that shark is brushing past you, it's absolutely enormous!

    Climbing up into the big US locos and sitting in that cab with the dials and switches all around you, feeling like you're actually right there. That's the important bit of VR. That's where the real immersion is.
     
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  10. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I saw this the other day on a forum and i'll be honest - filed it in the vapourware folder immediately since it promise the world at an undisclosed date in the future :) I've learned to push such things to one side.

    However, if there's now a github I might go download and take a look, see what it's up to, it'll be interesting to see it.

    Of course, the difference between a VR-game and a game that can be run in VR is large - and until you've played "proper" VR games you won't appreciate why the difference is as important as it is. However, until there's a "proper" VR implementation, this might well be pretty dang awesome.

    Because our players keep telling us it's not an important addition, frankly! Guts me to my core every single time, i'm a massive VR fan but if its at the bottom of your wishlists every single time, it's just not going to get the focus. We do TRY to listen.

    Matt
     
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  11. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Understandable Matt, but a shame as well, VR is awesome.

    Have downloaded the files, but unsure what to do next, can't find any intstructions? Probably simple to get going....
     
  12. jamster47

    jamster47 Well-Known Member

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    Understandable problem Matt. It's not at the bottom of everyone's wishlist but until adoptionof VR in general reaches a tipping point people won't see the 3d 6dof light.
     
  13. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I had a quick scan through the github, and from what I can see there's really nothing there. Most of the files are incredibly short, boilerplate at best.

    I'm going to revert back to "believe it when I see it".

    Matt.
     
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  14. TKessel

    TKessel Well-Known Member

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    Yes nothing there yet, has to be seen when it comes. At least the guy behind the project does have some good reputation for his VR mods (and is even working in the industry), so I think we can at least hope that it is no BS ;-)
     
  15. robin00795

    robin00795 New Member

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    The file from the github is an old and broken alpha and I think you have to compile it yourself etc.. there is a private test ongoing and thing look very promising, Join their discord for more info!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder whether a VR tsw2 tech demo to gauge interest would work. Even a 2min promo video. Maybe a collab with a vr headset provider. There’s a route to market for everything. I think if a community member saw Matts joy at sitting in a German loco looking around properly there’d be a hell of a lot more people pop their head above the “it’s just a fad “ hill.

    The challenge with vr is everyone whose never tried it thinks it’s a gimmick. It’s like buying cars, everyone will always tell you all the horror stories about them, more so when they’ve never even been in one. The owners however, generally more up to speed on them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  17. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    VR is a hard sell. If you have never experienced it, then a video will do absolutely nothing to sell you on it. If you've experienced it, you already know that you *NEED* it. :)

    Another challenge with VR is that you can't really share the experience on Twitch / YouTube etc - I guess technically you can but it doesn't look any different to normal gaming, except now the camera is flailing around a lot more and it can be dizzying to watch, further reinforcing the FUD that VR makes you sick, so it can work against you. I tried streaming in VR a couple of times and it was very much fantastic for me, tolerated by viewers - and that's not how you're going to sell the feature.

    Matt.
     
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  18. TKessel

    TKessel Well-Known Member

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    Yes this is true. I bought a used and cheap Lenovo Explorer a few years ago, just because I wanted to test VR with Elite Dangerous. Never be against something if you've not experienced it. So as said I got me a cheap headset and I was instantly blow away with the possibilites. Now having the Reverb G2 for simulations, high resoultion displays, I don't want to miss VR anymore. When I bought the Lenovo for giving it a try I was more then sceptical if I really need this. But it puts gaming to a new level once you've tried it for yourself. But as Matt said it is really impossible to tell people the experience. They won't believe this "you are there" before they have not experienced it themselves, because they can not imagine that feeling without experiencing it.
     
  19. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    :D
    Egx next week Matt. Weekend playing mad scientist in the garage perhaps and bringing it to the masses ?


    :D
     
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  20. valentin#1030

    valentin#1030 New Member

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    Bonjour,
    Très déçu d'apprendre ici que la VR ne fonctionne pas sur TSW3, d'autant plus que j'ai un casque et que ce jeu serait super avec la VR. J'ai compris que seule une petite quantité de personnes ont la réalité virtuelle et que cela n'apporterait pas de nouveaux clients, mais essayez de la configurer pour ceux qui le souhaitent, s'il vous plaît.

    Un youtubeur français
    Thiebold Valentin
     
  21. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Je pense que c'est à cause que le jeu fonctionne assez mal sur un écran que ça serai impossible pour cette compagnie à mettre en oeuvre une fonction VR qui serait acceptable.
     
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  22. DigiTMCN

    DigiTMCN Member

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    TSW3 in VR would be awesome. Preordered the PSVR2 so super keen. I can only imagine what it would be like to walk along a platform and climb abourd a loco and drive it all in VR. And on ICE the speed feeling would be tenfold. I would lose weight because I would never stop to eat. Although in reality TSW in VR will never happen ever. Although there is a VR train thing out there now for PC and Oculus called Derail Valley.
     
  23. djblitz#4512

    djblitz#4512 New Member

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    I saw that game and a small team making the game were DTG wont add it or can't be a@sed but still want us to part with our money for new DLCs i was going to buy the new scotrail today £29.99 but that price for no immersion no point i dont want to go up and down in a lift
     
  24. djblitz#4512

    djblitz#4512 New Member

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    But Matt the immersion VR brings to sims people that all ready own VR know what there going to get and would buy it for many years F1 never added VR they have done this year & what a difference its made being able to sat in a F1 car and play the Sim so why not add VR to Train Sim World 3 as to me as a buyer of your games it makes me think you dont taken on board what buyers of your games really want. Because
    at the moment no good bring out new DLCs when the games got no immersion at all
     
  25. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Every time we do a survey, I make sure Sam includes VR in the list of things we ask players about, even though, every single year, it comes in at the absolute bottom.

    This year, with the biggest volume of respondents to date, it continues to come in at the absolute bottom place. Literally the least requested feature for the game.

    I don't need convincing VR is a good thing - but I need to balance that against what the *actual* majority of players are asking for, which is certainly not VR. That makes me sad, but it is what it is.

    Matt.
     
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  26. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

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    You could always drive the train instead
     
  27. djblitz#4512

    djblitz#4512 New Member

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    But its the way forward to give people that own VR headsets that opportunity that buy your games & your DLCS ive just spent £59.98 of my hard earned money with you on your two lastest DLCS i could have gone and spent that on other things as people like my self want to see you do well and your games by supporting you it would be nice if you supported us a little more. As im not trying to come over argumentative or anything Matt since ive brought TSC then when you brought out the new TSW 3 i looked at content of TSW 2 i cant see any difference between TSW 2 & TSW 3 but if you had added VR to TSW 3 that would of been really big game changer because as a content creater you want to offer people more and if TSW 3 just like F1 2022 added VR after years of keep taken money from us.Now i know you said the veiwers that watch dont see the benefits of VR which is true but when your telling people im sat in a real train in my house or a F1 car or sports car they love it. I play Euro Truck Sim 2 & American Truck Sim i can up load normal content but if i do any of the both games in VR i get more comments and interaction then playing them normal. Just think what it could do to sale of TWS 3 with people buying Meta Quest 2 and Pico headsets knowing they could do what they see content creaters do if the option was in the game its 2023 not 1983 move with the times not stuck in the past
     
  28. djblitz#4512

    djblitz#4512 New Member

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    To busy picking up teddy bears in TSW3 to be driving lmao
     
  29. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    The famous Ford quote comes in mind.

    When asked about customer input in the development of the Ford Model T, Henry Ford famously said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

    I bet Sony or others doesn't VR because it's popular, but they have a vision of what the future of media could be. And if no one drives the vision, than we have the same old boredom.
     
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  30. jamster47

    jamster47 Well-Known Member

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    I do think (and writing as a big VR fan) that the argument that it comes bottom of the survey means we won’t do it is flawed. If you surveyed people with VR whether they wanted it in TSW3 I believe the yes vote would be nearly 100%. Certainly in the survey I responded to it was first or second in my list.

    People who don’t have VR headsets will never put it up there on the survey to the top because why would they if they have no frame of reference to have a viewpoint. It’s quite understandable that it will never be voted for just as I would not vote for something if I did not know about it, like it or have tried it.
    We will therefore not have VR for years until so many people have headsets and the innovation comes to late.

    That is a real shame and a missed opportunity to implement a game changing feature that, once more people come on board, could change their first hand experience in a way they would not have believed is possible.
     
  31. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Just checked in with Sam on the survey...

    Around 30% of people who OWN a VR headset, put it in their top three.

    Even for people who own VR, it's not their highest priority.

    Which boggles my mind.

    Matt.
     
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  32. jamster47

    jamster47 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply Matt, I stand humbly corrected.

    I got carried away thinking it would be 100% but still expected it to be higher.

    I have fingers crossed it will be possible one day as I expect you do as a likeminded fan .
     
  33. acro

    acro Active Member

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    I love VR but have seldom used it recently. In the last survey I didn't put it near the top this time and that's because I thought to myself "I want the general gameplay experience to be more fleshed out". While it would be absolutely amazing to hop on the Bakerloo Line and immerse myself in the murk of the Tube, there are numerous other things within TSW that I'm starting to think need more attention first.

    There are fundamental systems in the game that don't necessarily work as well as they could or other features that would overall be more widely welcome among the entire userbase. As it currently seems that DTG is a bit stretched for resources, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to focus on something that is niche. VR, while being a considerably bigger market than it used to be, is still a relatively small and frankly inaccessible market due to budgetary and health constraints (Lets not forget that PC VR has not been the focus of many tech companies for a few years now anyway). I feel like it might be somewhat more probable that something like this could happen when the TSW team don't need to focus so much on stabilizing the game itself and new content is being created by third parties to fill in the gaps.

    I am still hopeful that the feature eventually comes to the game, I'm just happy to wait a bit longer for the base game to be a bit more polished and the feature can be more justifiably implemented.

    Is the code for DK1 VR still in released builds of TSC or has it been completely removed? I'd quite like to try it :D
    Apparently I'm too inept to know how to tag a user :/
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023
  34. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Bits of it may still be there but it almost certainly won't work - it requires an old 0.4 SDK and heaven knows what has happened to it in the other changes like 64 bit that have happened - so even if it (and its command line option to start it) are still, there i'd fully expect it to be a lot of crashing or not doing anything different at this point :)

    Matt.
     
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  35. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    This is the reason why I didn't vote VR at the top in the survey, because sound and stability is more important for me. But I would like to have it too in the foreseeable future.
     
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  36. Xander1986

    Xander1986 Well-Known Member

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    VR is built years ago and now days its not the big hype that was promised. So this kind of gaming is not for a larger group so good choice to do not spend time and money on such product.
     
  37. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    Simulator games don't appeal to a larger group of gamers either, but thankfully some developers make them and see the potential.
     
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  38. Xander1986

    Xander1986 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the price for a VR set and you need a powerful pc with high-end specs so you have to paid twice in a higher price range.
     
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  39. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    Yes you are right, the VR entry barrier is high.
    But if your mind is already set to invest in TSW with it's endless DLC's priced like a AA Game, then you are accepting to throw money out of the window. :D

    Alternatively the PS5 with PSVR 2 would cost you 1150 Euro. Not bad for a VR setup.

    But I know what you mean, the toys are expensive.
     
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  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The really awkward thing here is that anyone who has vr would snap it up in an instant yet the feature is always determined by those that sit from afar saying it's pointless and have probably never seen even seen a headset in reality, It's business, but it a shame.
     
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  41. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    See my comment above, only 30% of people who own a VR system already want to see VR in TSW, so your statement above is firmly disagreed with by the biggest survey of our players to date.

    Matt.
     
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  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Mad people. :cool:
     
  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t boggle mine. There are things that don’t work well enough all the time on a flat screen. Maybe those 70% of VR people know TSW has very little chance of working well in VR even if it was available. Everyone sees the constant posts on the forum about stuttering and low fps and that would surely be something that wouldn’t be tolerated in VR but potentially be worse than it is on a normal screen. This is a pure guess but it must have crossed the mind of people who do have VR headsets. Or maybe more people who own a VR headset don’t actually use it because VR isn’t all it is cracked up to be. I still think the biggest negative about VR is that it is a contraption that blocks out vision of your actual surroundings.
     
  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with some of that. Occulus has the pass through feature which is a half way house to see where your coffee is. I think with regards to performance the biggest challenge is the horsepower needed. I'm only on a 2080ti, some games I could run at 60fps and more all day long but then I'm also appreciative of what a beast this game is on performance too.

    I hope one day Matt gets his way and can deliver it and hopefully tech is better but I do agree its such a bloody financial outlay to get everything.

    At the time I bought my Vr solely for racing so I ended up with over £3k for a pc, an occulus which at the time was only £200 before they charged £400 for the same thing and then a few hundred for a wheel.

    It's a huge bloody expense in all fairness for its return and I guess when the VR question is dropped in among 9 other features it don't stand a chance. If however in the same way that unreal 5 station demo was dropped a teaser of what TSW in VR could look like was done then I think 30% would be higher perhaps.
     
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  45. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    You don't *have* to spend a lot, that's a bit of a myth these days because for sure you did at the start when the minimum entry level PC was basically the best money could buy. These days... my 6-7 year old PC runs VR games on a £299 headset perfectly fine. I had a 980ti before, I got a cheap upgrade a couple of years back for a 2080 (not ti) but still running on that old 6th gen processor and my PC VR games are running just fine.

    IMHO VR is an "if you build it then those that want it will come" - but - I can't just throw time and resources into building something on a whim. Not when the vast majority of the playerbase is saying "uhm, actually, we'd like this stuff a LOT more... and there are a LOT more of us..." - we DO like to listen to the players, contrary to forum opinion :)

    I'm always looking for an angle though, one way or another, I'll get my VR sim :)

    Matt.
     
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  46. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I have had VR headsets for years and I still put it last in the survey.

    My reason - I can’t drive a Dosto in Rapid Transit + many other irritating bugs. When all of these are fixed, maybe I‘ll put it higher.

    2nd Reason - Stutters - TSW3 suffers badly from Microstutters, if you find stutters and pauses irritating in normal viewing they become far more obvious in VR. In some cases it can make you feel quite sick.

    In my opinion the game has far more important issues.
     
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  47. vitmax

    vitmax Member

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    I have a VR headset and I put VR dead last in the survey. And the fact that sim has a lot of much more pressing issues for devs to spend their working hours on is not the only reason.
    Problem is that people seem to often underestimate the work needed to make a truly VR game. Just adding VR functionality to the graphical part of the game is easiest part of the job. A single person with a bit of free time can do it. But that's not gonna make a good VR experience. Honesly, 99% of flatscreen games that got VR-mode are just bad with a headset.
    VR isn't just about having 3d life-sized objects. It's about immersive interaction with the world: ability to touch things, to move things with your hands, to do all the tasks manually.
    Just imagine yourself playing TSW in VR. You sit in the cab and want to open a window. You point you arm at it, click the button, and it magically opens. You cannot move it by touching it, you cannot fiddle with the lock, you cannot open it a little. And the same goes for every interactable object in the game -- VR-controller would only really act as a mouse in a 3d-space.
    And then imagine that you need to go and uncouple a car 200 meters down the train. You hit a button to get up from a chair and your head just flies through the air on it's own causing nausea. Then you get down on the ground (again with nausea-indusing camera motion), and go 200 meters along the track. Walking long distances, by the way, is one of the least enjoyable experiences VR can offer. And what happens, when you reach the coupling you need to uncouple? Again, you just point your hand, click a button, and it magically uncouples itself. Would it be immersive and enjoyable? Not really, no.
    Besides, how do you perform two-man jobs, like reversing a train or shunting? On flat screen I use 3-cam, but in VR that, again, wouldn't be very immersive.
    All in all, making TSW into a good VR game would require a full rebuild of the game from the ground up: models, collisions, animations, scripting, scenarios, AI and so on. Without all of that VR-mode is going to be nothing more than a gimmick to play around for an hour or so, and then go back to flatscreen, because it would be non-immersive and very limiting gameplay-wise.
    I would love to have a well designed VR-mode in TSW, but, realistically, that's never gonna happen. Maybe in some other DTG title few years down the road, but not in TSW3. And not in TSW 4 or 5 either.
     
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  48. stevegad

    stevegad Member

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    And I wouldn't go as far as 'No immersion'. I'm the biggest immersion junkie on the planet - the lower the immersion factor of anything, the lower the chance I buy. I bought 3 DLC items this sale, so it must have something. I get it with the VR argument on both sides, but as I don't know how hard it is to implement, I'm going to guess 'hard', or it would already be an option.
     
  49. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'd imagine implementing it for PSVR would be a much simpler task than implementing it for PC. On the PlayStation, users generally do everything with the controller so losing sight of the room around you is less of an issue than PC users who will be controlling their train using a keyboard. Besides, DTG have never really understood console gaming (judging by the poor implementation of things like Trophies, and game progression, and total lack of controller feedback), so they're bound to prioritise the needs of the PC contingent when planning product development - making VR far less likely.
     
  50. acro

    acro Active Member

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    I don't particularly see this being a thing that would run on original PSVR. If they did develop it for PSVR 2 then it would probably be the same as PC anyway, using the VR motion controls and such as opposed to a keyboard or controller.
     

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