Well That Was A Watse Of 40 F***ing Minutes.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by BlackSkyuk, Sep 13, 2022.

  1. BlackSkyuk

    BlackSkyuk Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    132
    Train stalled on the bank at Crewe. It then slid down the bank with no way to stop to. Barke full on and tender brake full on. It sild all the way down pass the red light behind = SPAD = Game ends. Also no save in TSW3 so can't even reload a save. (In TSW2 I would do a save before entering Crewe).

     
    • Like Like x 14
  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    The games brutal at the moment with the last checkpoint removed. I've got burnt on some long runs too
     
    • Like Like x 11
  3. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    I'm actually finding that the lack of save is definitely making me a better driver. Although it's really frustrating when you run a red 2 hours into a run.
     
    • Like Like x 13
  4. hypospray

    hypospray Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    199
    I never really used the save funktion at all in TSW 2, so i don't miss it here tbh.
    But can imagine how frustrating it is on longer services after spending a hour or even more just because of a bug or a simply driving error.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2022
    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    3,446
    You´re from the-glass-is-half-full fraction. I´m too old for that kind of optimism.
    Frustrating is that DTG kept out a tool that works 80% of the time in an anyways bug-infested software. As if there were no other bugs, yeah.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    Another example of why DTG need to put back the old save as a temporary measure. In the little bit of time I spent on SoS in TSW2, it never let me down.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Lokomotiv

    Lokomotiv Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2022
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    134
    I think we've all been there. TSW is brutal sometimes. My worst one so far has been a Rhein-Ruhr Osten scenario where you had to drive a long distance for about an hour or so in a DB G6 shunter, mind you at 40 km/h because of the scenario:

    The Distributor (DB G6 Scenario, Rhein-Ruhr Osten)
    “This morning you have to bring a few empty freight wagons to Wuppertal-Langerfeld's yard. Because of an operational fault, you must go via Gevelsberg.

    Here's what happened in my 3 failed attempts:

    1. When arriving at Wuppertal-Langerfeld's yard (after a long time of driving) I overran a stop-location marker by a lot, and I got stuck behind a red light because of the way the scenario was set up.

    2. In my second attempt a junction sent me into a side track that I wasn't supposed to be in, and it had me trapped because of a red light that wouldn't let me out of there. At this point, #fml.

    3. Third time's the charm? I kid you not, I made it almost all the way through except when I entered one of the last stop-location markers... My PC froze for about 10 seconds, and I got a blue screen of death... HOW is that even possible???

    At this point it was late at night, and although I'd been driving a slow-moving shunter for hours, I was more determined than ever to complete this scenario.

    And guess what, in my fourth attempt I made all the way through! For me this was the most hard-earned gold medal in a scenario so far, but totally worth it.

    I wouldn't mind TSW to be less brutal, and also more importantly have less bugs. But at the same time I don't mind the challenge :D
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Play hard go pro. More pain but more game. Be brave!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. hansmorse22

    hansmorse22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2021
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    21
    Will there actually be a Save set up?
    Let's hope so.
     
  10. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    How many more of these do you need to see DTG?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    You're very lucky that you can play for 2 hours a session.

    And, while the lack of a save function may make you drive more cautiously, many times a service will end because of a game bug, which will happen whether you're a better driver or not. That's when the save game feature is most needed, when it's not your fault.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,651
    The one and only reason, I have not bought this game yet.

    PUT IT BACK, DTG. LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS. NANNY IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT.

    Either that or be consistent and remove every other feature that has a bug. Oh wait….
     
    • Like Like x 7
  13. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Years of medication and counseling results in a carefree shrug your shoulders outlook on life and make the best you can out of a situation. Don't get me wrong I want the save function back as much as the next person. But I'm not going to letit stop me from enjoying the game in the interim.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
    • Like Like x 5
  14. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    827
    Sadly I just can't enjoy it at all. I don't save and end up with a game crash. I do save and end up with the red signal bug. Sometimes I don't get the red signal bug, but I can't predict it.

    I didn't bother with the Universal Unreal Unlocker in TSW3 to start with and thought I now have time to do this 50-ish-minute scenario (kind of; it was stupidly late at night), then it crashed in the last few minutes. I finally gave UUU a go, then I got the red signal bug. Not once, but twice in a row across two different routes.

    My conclusion at the moment? I can't be arsed with this. And why should I be? Save game, if it was formally reinstated in its broken state, is too much of a gamble on my time. Playing without a working save is too much of a gamble on my time. It's no fun.

    Currently, I can do many other things, play many other games, that are entertaining and don't have major issues at every turn.

    So I appreciate that TrainSim-Matt has put together a dedicated team to once and for all fix the save game. Reinstating save, but in a properly functioning state, is the only acceptable scenario for me. It's the only way I can confidently return to playing it and actually enjoy it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    One of the bonuses of social anxiety and the resulting lack of of a social life outside of a very small understanding circle of friends is that I get lots of time to myself and 12 hour sessions arent uncommon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2022
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 5
  17. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Man up friend.
    We hairy chested engineers don't need a save function
    Start with ten minute scenarios and expand to twenty even twenty five.
    Soon, like Redrev, you'll be living the dream.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    840
    Had this happen to me with a unfitted train also, the wheels locked up and was nothing I could do on the downhill grade. Seems Loco breaks are just not able to adhere at all in adverse conditions.

    20220906202236_1.jpg
     
  19. This kinda reminds me of my childhood. Coming home from school to find out my mum had turned my f in nes off :mad:
     
  20. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2022
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    506
    Even if it will be reinstated in a perfectly working way, it will not save you from "red light" bug. Or am I wrong?
    I haven't met red light issue very often, but when I did, loading save game never has changed anything - I still got stopped in the same place from exactly the same reason (AI train blocking the track).
     
  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    I have had at least one red light bug in TSW3 (AI train not moving ahead) on a straight play, no save involved. That was one of the 101 Journey trips on HRR.
     
  22. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    827
    Saving the game causes the impassable red signals to occur. So, yes, fixing the save game means stopping it from causing said red light bugs, which is exactly what DTG are currently trying to fix before they reinstate the save function.

    True, there have been red light bugs not related to save game, but generally these do get fixed and/or don't occur as frequently as the save game red light bugs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    seems from todays article we are going to get the option to turn on the broken save game as requested by some. I really hope this isnt the end of the focus on trying to fix it given that a vocal number on here have been claiming its not a major issue that DTG think it is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    The article says they have some fixes in for testing that help the dispatcher logic.

    it also says a toggle to use it or not use it based on personal preference.

    Lastly it says it’s coming sooner than later
     
    • Like Like x 3
  25. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    827
    Fantastic. This is the beginning of a positive new direction for DTG, with potential improvements already coming and so soon. I'll happily test this. Thanks TrainSim-Matt and the team!
     
  26. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    If you see an old fat guy dancing in the street on YouTube it’s me celebrating
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    13,794
    Not the end or a deprioritisation at all, it's responding to the players and actually given the great progress the team have been making is an opportune time for casting a wider net on seeing how it's at. It won't be completely fixed but the nature of issues found thus far ought to have an impact across everything - so opening Save to wider review and encouraging feedback is the right thing to do now.

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 13
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  28. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    827
    Completely agree. Thanks again.
     
  29. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    I’m very grateful. Thank you. See you on the stream soon
     
  30. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    I have to say it's pretty ironic that PC players are now furious with something that's been ever-present for console users.

    Consoles have NEVER had a reload from checkpoint feature- maybe the team could look at adding this across all platforms?

    Thx
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    Wouldn’t you simply create your own checkpoint every time you make a new save while your in route?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    Yea you could manually save but there was never an auto-saved checkpoint like PC had, which was quite useful if you SPAD. On console, there was never a "reload from checkpoint" option after a game over like described by OP.

    Just hoping with the save function being overhauled that DTG could look into implementing the checkpoint on consoles as well.
     
  33. hansmorse22

    hansmorse22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2021
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    21
    Checkpoint on PC is pretty useless, as you have to progress a fair way before it saves to the next point. In fact, with TS3 so far, I have never had a checkpoint! I just had the most boring 40-minute run on Cajon Pass. Had to go to work so lost the progress. Wouldn't bother with that run again, as it's just desert and dull.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    Because it's not currently in the game.

    But you're right, it has limited usefulness, because the checkpoints are often so far back, that you might as well start over. I've used the LLCP occasionally, but it's no substitute for a game save.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    Fair point, but it might have actually helped in OP's case.

    Anyway, what about them implementing an actual auto-save feature like many modern games? Maybe even let the user choose how often it saves?

    Maybe there could even be multiple save slots, and cloud saves?

    There's an argument to be made that now's the time to really go for it since it's unlikely it'll ever be this high on the priority list again.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    Yes, great idea. I wonder if they are considering that. And you're right, there probably won't be another opportunity any time soon to implement auto-save.

    However, considering the amount of information involved in a save, auto-save might be a bridge too far.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  37. sinnere

    sinnere Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2019
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    204
    I think it's safe to say that a scenario ending due to running a red should be prohibited. Too many horror stories on here of people traversing hour-plus long journies just for it to come to an end due to accidentally running a red.
     
  38. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2021
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Its all part of learning the game. I’ve had plenty of 2hr+ US freight runs end as a fail because of a red but that’s part of learning the game and how to brake the train.
     
  39. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    I know it's all about learning from your mistakes but at the end of the day it's just a game and nobody should be punished to that level of severity for making a simple error of judgement.
    Besides, some services in TSW require you to stop on a sixpence a matter of yards away from a red signal (why do they insist on doing that?) and I personally find it can be a little too easy to accidentally overdo it when messing around trying to sneak up on that stop marker. Especially in those horrible shunting things that go from 0-1mph in a 'keeps you guessing' amount of time and then 1-10mph in the blink of an eye....
     
    • Like Like x 3
  40. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    827
    If I were designing the game, I would have included a toggle option for "passing signals at danger allowed, on or off", as a level of difficulty option. This could also help with accessibility, for users who may not have precise motor skills to adjust quickly enough in those situations where the stop marker is ludicrously close to a signal at danger. Some may see it as cheating, but others would see it as helpful for various reasons, including learning before building up the confidence to turn it off.

    Something to consider TrainSim-Matt ?

    EDIT: Saying that, I'm not sure what issues that would cause. The signals are at danger for a reason. Trains in the next section of track. The player could quickly end up failing on a collision anyway. It could cause a complete dispatcher logic mess... Perhaps something that gives the player breathing space instead. If the toggle is on, you can pass the signal up t X number of yards, giving you some leniency and a chance to reverse the train to where it should be and await proper clearance.

    But I'd rather other bugs get sorted, and optimisation work done, first.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    Add my thanks too Matt, as one of the more vocal critics. It will save faffing about with that UUU utility and hey you weaned me off my “local” at Sparks in Run 8 last night, too!

    Once that’s sorted then we need to move on to what can be done to temper the adaptive lighting a bit and the shadow issues but getting a save back in the game puts a big grin on my face.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    13,794
    A red light literally means the dispatcher has not pathed you beyond that point. Beyond that point you are in a blackhole of uncertainty, there could be nothing in front of you but there's no path, so the junctions will be whatever they were and you could very well go off in a wrong direction unrecoverably.

    You could be going into some obstruction. Our licensing partners are very clear they don't want to see their branded trains crashing and one of their points of comfort is that realistic signaling will naturally prevent many such things anyway.

    Even if the junctions *happen* to be set correctly, by passing the red you're now occupying track that could cause problems for other services and result in a deadlock (it's in the block and now can't get past you on the track you're now on because being there is preventing a junction from changing or something).

    Last one is solvable but - currently the dispatcher cannot allocate a path for you if there's anything ON that path - including you - so once you pass that red light, it now *can't* get that path back for you and you won't be able to get a non-red at all. If you were to reverse back (aside that you might not be able to because of another red behind you) currently the dispatcher doesn't *keep* trying to allocate. As I say, these ones are probably solvable though.

    The signaling and dispatching system is set up to mimic much more how things work in reality, but that means you need "real" processes to resolve running red lights, which are complex and require non-automated processes (they're called people usually) to come up with a plan and make sure it all gets back to working smoothly again.

    THAT said - I do agree and have said before that there are too many stops placed too close to signals. I'm going to ask the dev team to put in a warning on the compiler if it detects this anywhere so that there's an automated consistent validation of this because it really is just too easy to miss it, or think you're leaving tons of room when in reality you're not.

    The solution IMHO is not to devalue the importance of red lights, but to make sure that players have reasonable expectations placed on them so that while running red lights is still bad, it should be readily possible to *not* run one and still complete tasks.

    Suffice to say, aware of the challenge, trying to come up with a solution, and making it so passing reds is "ok" is not it :)

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 13
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,478
    Likes Received:
    17,341
    The stop points on the Clinchfield route are still right on top of the red stop board or signal. It should have been sorted by now. DTG really need to allocate more resources to fixing these kind of issues to avoid months or years of having to put up with them getting in the way of enjoying the game just because a route builder (or automated system) made a placement mistake, instead of just promising not to make the same mistakes again. Having the same game of crawling chicken at the end of every run is not fun and certainly not what an engineer would be doing in a real train.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  44. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2021
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    What I really don’t understand is on passenger routes they use that block system so as long as your train is partially within an area that’s as long as your train it counts as a valid stop. So you can stop at a station where only one of your doors is touching the platform and still valid, and that’s on EMUs that stop on a dime. Then for massive US freight trains you have to get it exactly on the single stop marker.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  45. There's 2 options here.... dtg can disable the signal passed at danger scenario failed (not going to happen)

    Or people can take a little more care when driving trains and expect some signals to be red.

    Always remember to slow down well before approaching a red signal.
    And don't enter stations at speed.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2022
  46. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Except that the game still has crashes...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2022
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    [​IMG]
     
  48. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    You say this as if everything's designed in a way to allow for care, but that's not always the case. As stujoy pointed out-
    4 or 5 yards is not a reasonable tolerance for big and heavy freight trains like on Clinchfield, PERIOD. I should not need to be stop and starting two or three times at the end of a service just to make sure I hit that narrow stop point. Especially annoying since from what I remember and played none of the older routes even had this problem, at least not to the same extent as on Clinchfield.

    Another major issue's that so many timetables use autogen timing that give no damn leeway, thus encouraging you to keep track speed in order to make time even when you realistically should be slowing down. If DTG wants players to play cautiously then they need to make sure it's designed in a way which encourages such behavior. Either make more realistic timetables which actually give you a few minutes of leeway. Or if that's so hard to do then trash the time based scoring, because as is the scoring adds nothing at best, and at worst encourages newbies to drive in a unrealistic manner.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  49. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    Yes, I noticed that on CJP last night. A few yards before or after the stop marker and the game won't advance.

    This isn't true of all freight routes though, there's really no consistency.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    Possibly a solution like Zusi 2 (not played 3) or indeed Run 8 where you can delete trains that are stuck or have got into standoffs, see if that will push the signalling into clearing. Obviously that has potential implications later if the train has another working, but as a "break the glass" to finish your current run or scenario it could be a possibility?
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page