New Game-breaking Bug On London Commuter Since Tsw 3: Ai Train Gets Stuck In Same Place - Please Fix

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by cloudyskies21, Sep 18, 2022.

  1. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    So, disappointingly, I've noticed what seems to be a brand-new bug on London Commuter on TSW 3 which I've never previously seen compared with it on TSW 2. :mad:

    Twice now in two different timetable services, one in the afternoon, the other at night, there's an AI 4-car 377 which is stuck to the south of Haywards Heath on the northbound line - oddly it's not at any signals. The AI train seems to get stuck in the same place regardless of whatever time of day. As a result, all the other AI trains behind get stuck.

    Just to note, firstly, it seems to take a while for this bug. For example, I was completing the multiple part 313 ECS from Selhurst to Lovers Walk when by the time I got towards Haywards Heath the AI train on the northbound was stuck. Another example, I completed a Brighton to Victoria return with the 387 on two different services, but all in one session, all fine until about an hour and a half later when on the return to Brighton, going past the south of Haywards Heath, the same 377 was stuck again. :|

    Please, please, please DTG fix and sort this annoying bug out - I certainly hope this won't be left despite London Commuter now being a TSW 2 port to TSW 3 - it's my favourite route. I just hope this and the red signal call-on bug at Redhill are eventually fixed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
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  2. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Are you going back to the menu once you've finished a service or are you going into freeroam then carrying on with the next service (without going back to the menu and selecting the service that way)?

    Hentis
     
  3. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    So I'd normally play a couple services in one session, so as you say, going into freeroam and starting the next one that way - as I did for the aforementioned 313 ECS and 387 Brighton to Victoria return. For context though, I'd never do that for more than two, maybe three, services (or for extended periods of time). Then, after that, it's back to the menu before spawning on foot to start the next session.

    Not sure if you're playing London Commuter currently, but would be interesting to see if anyone else is getting that bug?
     
  4. StormFront345

    StormFront345 Member

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    I get that bug on journeys on both TSW 2 & 3. But not if I start the service in the engine.
     
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  5. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    So having played more London Commuter services to investigate about this new in-game bug on TSW 3 is as follows:

    - On Brighton to Victoria services, while the player train is not affected and can be completed as normal, by the time you reach East Croydon/Clapham Junction, the aforementioned AI train is shown via the map to be stuck south of Haywards Heath - which ruins the immersion and means you have to start a new session rather than continuing in free roam without any problems.
    - On Victoria to Brighton services, the bug doesn't seem to be of issue, although if you continue in free roam after once more time passes, eventually the AI train is stuck.

    Hoping DTG can fix this bug on TSW 3.
     
  6. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Can confirm I've just encountered this as well and it's causing a huge pileup of trains in the Up direction from just south of Haywards Heath towards Brighton. I always play spawning on foot. Really hope this is fixed soon - it's rather ruining the timetable mode at the moment on one of the best routes.
     
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  7. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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    Thank you for sharing, I've logged the AI train getting stuck so our dev teams can take a better look at what is happening.
     
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  8. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Some screenshots in case they're helpful:

    upload_2022-9-23_16-29-18.png

    upload_2022-9-23_16-29-47.png

    upload_2022-9-23_16-30-16.png

    This particular service which has stopped appears to be one of the AI trains from Wivelsfield as it's telling me I don't have permission to drive it when I try to take over. Will continue trying to replicate this at different times of day to see if it's always the same train type (although I think it might be as I've only ever seen 4 car 377s stop here).
     
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  9. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Following this up with some more info - the train behind the stuck one in the queue is an 8 car Brighton - London Victoria 377. Strangely there doesn't appear to be any service for the stuck Eastbourne-originating train to connect to at Haywards Heath - is something wrong with the order of instructions perhaps and the front half of the train departs before the rear connects?

    One for Joethefish perhaps - apologies for the tag if it's inappropriate but you're probably best placed to confirm which train the stuck service is.
     
  10. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Won't be able to check it until I get back to the editor in a few days. How did you load in? Spawn in service? Which service was it? Or if on foot, what time was it? I'll see if I can get it to happen.
     
  11. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    No worries, just wanted to bring this one to your specific attention as it appears that it's timetable related.

    Spawn on foot, any time of day - I've managed to replicate it three times now at different times of day, all with the same AI service routing (ie. all of the 4-car 377 services spawning at Keymer Jnc going northbound to Victoria). Let me know if there's anything more specific that you need that would help diagnose the issue.
     
  12. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    What times exactly did you spawn? I don't have a dev version on my PC but so far I haven't seen it occur.
     
  13. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks Alex, much appreciated.

    Just to confirm as well, I always spawn on foot when in timetable mode, and the 4-car AI train gets stuck regardless of what time of day or service and always in the aforementioned same place.

    On a separate note, thank you mattwild55 for helping to assist, much appreciated.
     
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  14. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I've managed to replicate it by starting on foot at Haywards Heath at 12 noon on 23rd September, clear weather. The front half of what becomes the 12:40 ex-Haywards Heath to Victoria gets stuck in the position I've noted above at around 12:35. PIS indicates that it originates from Littlehampton.

    (This is a bit strange itself as I was under the impression that the Victoria-bound trains from Littlehampton were player drivable from Preston Park - however I could be mistaken or the PIS may be wrong)

    The first train that gets queued behind the stuck train is 1A29 Brighton - London Victoria, then 7V00 Newhaven to Acton freight, third in the queue is 1M63 Brighton - Victoria and then fourth is another AI service for Haywards Heath (4 car 377) which I can't give a reporting code for (this one is stuck at Wivelsfield P2).

    It's strange but I *think* it only happens on at least the second pair of trains that turn up and merge at Haywards Heath P4 - if you spawn closer to the time (eg. if I'd spawned at 12:30 instead) it doesn't appear to get stuck in the same way. I'm not sure what could be causing this, but as an average session on a route of this length is at least 30 minutes for me then the bug occurs eventually every time I play in Timetable mode.

    I hope that helps somehow.
     
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  15. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Further note on this after more playtime today - it's not just limited to spawn on foot. I've spawned as 1F25 Littlehampton & Eastbourne - London Victoria and upon checking the map a bit later (I was at Clapham Junction by the time I remembered to check) the same issue has occurred.
     
  16. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    So, last night I spent a couple hours to further investigate this issue - and seem to have worked out what the problem is Joethefish mattwild55 DTG Alex

    The stuck AI 4-car Class 377 - which joins the map by the portal from the Wivelsfield branch - occurs because it should form the rear section of an 8-car service from Haywards Heath to Victoria following attachment. However, the main reason causing this is the front 4-car section originating from Littlehampton never arrives (doesn't even enter the map from the portal down by Hove/Preston Park!). Thus, the aforementioned rear 4-car from Eastbourne/Ore joins the Brighton Mainline in front but has nothing to join up with - so gets stuck!

    For context this is how it occurred when playing the game:

    - Spawned on foot at Haywards Heath at 1650 - at this time, platform 4 at Haywards Heath was empty.
    - At 1659, a 4-car 377 arrives on the map from the portal from the Wivelsfield branch at 1659, then departs Wivelsfield at 1702, and arrives at Haywards Heath at 1705.
    - The rear section from Littlehampton arrives at Haywards Heath around 1708.
    - Both attach to form an 8-car service and depart without issue (normally the bug occurs later, as seen below).
    - Later, during the same session, the next service is scheduled, this time, the front 4-car 377 should arrive at Haywards Heath from Littlehampton at 1738 - long story short, it never arrives (or even enters the map down by Hove/Preston Park portal).
    - Meanwhile, the rear 4-car section - due to arrive at Haywards Heath at 1740 - enters the map via Wivelsfield branch at 1733, it then arrives at Wivelsfield station at 1735 before departing at 1736. As this rear 4-car section has now joined the Brighton Mainline in front of the missing front 4-car section, it then gets stuck to the south of Haywards Heath at 1738 because it has nothing to attach too!
    - The first train that gets stuck behind is an 8-car 1A49 service.

    Just for context, the first time I investigated this issue (before the above), I had no issue:

    - Spawned at 1720.
    - During this time, having waited almost an hour, no AI train got stuck. For example, for the first Victoria-bound service, a front section from Littlehampton, and later a rear section from Eastbourne/Ore arrived, attached and departed Haywards Heath at 1744 without issue.
    - Later, during same session, for the next Victoria-bound service, the first 4-car section from Eastbourne, and later the rear section from Littlehampton, both arrive, attach and depart Haywards Heath at around 1814 - again no problems.

    So, my hypothesis from all of the above is that if the front 4-car section is from Littlehampton, then it never enters the map via the portal, and causes the rear to be stuck as has nothing to attach at Haywards Heath. Please note though, there is no issue if the Littlehampton section is already on the map once you start a session - it's only when it has to join the map later by the portal - which explains why this bug does not occur straight away.

    Hopefully this can help DTG to fix this bug with London Commuter on TSW 3.
     
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  17. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    God I love a good root cause analysis (I do it as part of my day job). Well done.

    This explains why I could never find the other 4-car 377 (because it never spawns) and why the one that gets stuck is always AI-only (as it's from the Wivelsfield branch and those aren't playable services).
     
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  18. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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    Thank you for the insight into the issue, I will link to this thread in our ticket report :)
     
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  19. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    Did the new update fix this issue? I hope so
     
  20. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    Unfortunately is not fixed. I just tried it and is doing the same thing.
     
  21. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Any update on this? Can you please let us know if this issue is being looked at.
    Thanks
     
  22. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    I was putting off giving an update until I have more interesting news but as you asked. :)

    So thanks to the great investigation skills of the forum members above, I was able to find the cause pretty quickly. (Thanks for the help!)

    The issue is; the train from Eastbourne is blocking trains between Wivelsfield and Haywards Heath in the Up direction. It is there waiting to join to the rear of a service from Littlehampton (Hove portal), which has trouble spawning. The train from Littlehampton is spawning at the same time as another train, which is bound for Brighton. They both end up stuck and block each other and any others from leaving. The services both spawn at XX:16 each hour.

    It works fine in TSW2, which is a little baffling because spawning two trains at the same time in the same place sounds like a big no. It wasn't intentional to be done this way but with 4,602 services to keep track off, I guess it slipped through easily. But I've tested this and it works fine on TSW2. So, TSW2s BML will not suffer this problem, may I politely request that if you want to play any of the affected services that you use TSW2 for now.

    As for TSW3, spawning two services at the same time is something that timetable devs should be not doing. So the issue causing this is technically valid. Before this thread opened I had noticed on SEHS that doing this will now cause the timetable simulation to fail completely - this means it won't go unnoticed on future timetables. :)

    I'm working on a fix for London to Brighton's timetable to solve this. It's a pretty easy fix but
    I'm not going to confirm it's fixed until it's on a build where I can test it under the same conditions that cause the issue. So my apologies about this, please bare with me and I'll be back with hopefully some better and more exciting news. :)
     
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  23. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Wouldn’t it be easier to just….delete the service lol? It’s literally one out of 4000?
     
  24. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    As this happens every hour, it's many more than just one service. Besides I'd rather fix it properly, without losing any services.
     
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  25. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    Thank you Joe for the update. Hope you can fix it soon as this is the best route in the game.love doing the services nonstop back and forth all day. Just wondering did the issue at redhill ever get fixed with the GWR trains.
     
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  26. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update Joe! :)

    Ironically, the red light issue at Redhill which was on the TSW 2 version of London Commuter is not a problem on TSW 3 - have been able to finally play GWR services again. Looks like it might be just a TSW 2 fix needed - hopefully the devs can eventually sort for those on TSW 2.
     
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  27. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    I played london brighton 2 days ago and noticed the stuck train as i was driving back from brighton and was stuck at a red, checked the map and noticed a train stopped not even at a red. Pain likes, if ya wanna go up and down without having to go into menu for next service. Hopefully fixed soon as i hope
     
  28. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if this was caused by something in TSW3 itself, or something that was updated in the latest patch. From my understanding TSW2 is still at least one patch behind TSW3 so if whatever broke the route is in that update it might fine its way into TSW2 as well.

    edit: guess I should have read Joe’s post first
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2022
  29. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    What ever it is I hope they have a fix for it soon. In my opinion This is the best route in the game and the one I keep going back to. One of the few routes you can actually do complete shifts end to end.
     
  30. johnmcglade17

    johnmcglade17 Active Member

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    On TSW 3 on London commuter the back doors where you connect another look on the multiverse up you can't shut the doors I'm going to send this picture
     

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  31. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    Any update on when the fix for this is coming out?
    Not being able to do several not even a complete turn from Brighton is just not acceptable.
     
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  32. escarmalanes#3539

    escarmalanes#3539 New Member

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    Please fix this soon, been driving me bonkers, can drive down to Brighton, but then can’t get back up again as stuck behind that confused train south of the Haywards Heath tunnel. Thanks
     
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  33. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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  34. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I'm afraid I don't have any news at this stage. Red lights are being investigated across the board.
     
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  35. The Red Light issue should of been one that was fixed a long time ago now but still stands it goes to show u guys whould of waited 1 more year for TSW3 at least then we would of got a better exp and Unreal 5 for the sim all we did want is the long standing issues fixed
     
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  36. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Update: I spoke to Joe, and this isn't related to red lights. It's an isolated issue of two locos spawning at the same time and blocking each other's progress.

    It's in a queue for testing at the moment, but I have no release date for you at present.
     
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  37. JD knowing its in a queue i bet all will have to wait months knowing we beening waiting how long for the red light issues
     
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  38. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Sincerely hope this does get fixed….it’s basically made the entire route unplayable for those that like service mode.
     
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  39. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    Totally. I drove a service yesterday from victoria to preston park. I seen the train and remembered, (beep) i cant drive back up. Annoying.
     
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  40. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Why should this be in a queue? Surely something like this should be an urgent priority? Don’t your customers matter? Ffs
     
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  41. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with you. Its a route breaker, so should definitely be priority.
     
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  42. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    This is why i'm holding back on buying. until all they issues are sorted out i will be hesitant before buying anything new
     
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  43. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s a good sign that Joe has already been in here to explain the issue and says he has a fix. For it to be in line for testing probably means they want to make sure the fix here doesn’t break something else before adding it to the patch. Hopefully it’s on the next patch because running multiple services in one timetable session is the entire fun of the timetable mode.
     
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  44. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Another patch. Still no fix. Doesn’t look like the occlusion will ever be added to the 377 cab either to stop it being so bright at night, despite them saying they’ll look into it….
     
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  45. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I was going to ask about this patch and whether I should allow BML back into one of my coveted 64gb spots… guess the answer is not yet.
     
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  46. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Do we have an update on when this will be fixed. the last update:from JD Nov10th
    "It's in a queue for testing at the moment, but I have no release date for you at present".
     
  47. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    Its totally taking to long to fix it
     
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  48. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    I just posted another weird new bug on the technical forum i just found. Fix something and up pops another, its a vicious circle. Lol
     
  49. mydaveforlife

    mydaveforlife New Member

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    you've finished a service or are you going into freeroam then carrying on with the next service (without going back to the menu and selecting the service that way)?
     
  50. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Yet another patch. Yet another no show for this fix. It isn’t gonna be fixed, is it. Refund?
     
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