Tsw3 German Trains And General Issues)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by vicarious, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. vicarious

    vicarious Active Member

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    Ok this is absolutely ridiculous. Two new quality and authenticity issues to add to the (long) list:

    1. The "fixed" BR187 sound is worse than the issue it was supposed to fix (the 187's engine sounding like a 185). At least it sounded like a locomotive...now it makes a horrible, ear piercing screeching noise that sounds like cats being tortured.

    2. The "NJ" (Nightjet) consist paired with the BR101 in the SKW Timetable Mode is just standard white and red DB 1st and 2nd class IC coaches. This is NOT a Nightjet train or any other night train.

    All these errors and QC issues, and there are many, demonstrate that DTG is not a serious company. There is no way anybody who knows anything about the railways depicted in the TSW franchise can be satisfied with this subpar product. It's so obviously designed to be a cash grab with DTG putting minimum effort to make a quality rail simulator. The new German route, for example, is 60-70% tunnels. Very very boring (but comparatively cheap and easy to program). And what's up with the thunder and rain sounds during the intro and menus? It's a train simulator, not a weather sim.

    I could go on and but you get the point. It must be frustrating being a developer for a company like this that has no pride in its product.
     
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you haven’t invested too much money into TSW.

    My recommendation is that you move on from TSW & forget all about it.
     
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  3. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    They have said that this is how the route is with all those tunnels. And if they had cut down on them then others would be moaning that it is not realistic because there should be more tunnels.

    So they can't win with the tunnels either way.
     
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  4. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    You had an opportunity to view TSW 3 before purchase. The Kassel route does have a lot of tunnels - that’s a characteristic of high speed lines. You cannot criticise the route for being the route - it is what it is. If you find it boring - don’t play that route. Simples.
     
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  5. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    But when you do that they just release a new version to lure you back in :D
     
  6. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It was a bit of a fudge to deliver a longer route. However got to admit I’m loving the ICE-1, it has a great heavy feel to it, doesn’t seem overpowered and the sounds are excellent, particularly the rheostatic braking whine. Sends a tingle down my spine. Really needs reverb for all those tunnels though and better headlights.

    All the 18x locos in TSW sound like a cat being tortured. Maybe they are like that IRL, I don’t know. However I’ve driven the 189 in TSC a fair bit and that sounds more like a conventional electric loco, in fact very agreeable.

    If you have the BR155 then that should layer in on some of the freight workings and is much more pleasant to listen to, and drive, compared to the Traxx things.
     
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  8. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    Just be glad they haven't modelled the cross channel Folkestone- Calais rail link... yet...

    For me it just demonstrates long routes have always been possible in this engine, they just haven't been done for commercial reasons (or greed if you prefer). However if DTG are going to sell more TSW versions in the future I suspect longer routes may appear to sweat out the lifespan of the software My money is on London-Birmingham as the lure for TSW4 in a couple of years...
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    A section of the WCML should have been the UK route for TSW3, not the regurgitated SEHS!

    In fact the almost complete absence of news on any UK project, makes me wonder if they even have anyone (in house or contracted) working on British stuff at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  10. rich.minty

    rich.minty Active Member

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    Nobody forced you to buy TSW3
     
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  11. rich.minty

    rich.minty Active Member

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    ... and, any simulation that involves the outdoors "has" to include weather. As DTG Matt said, half of what you see when driving any vehicle is the sky.

    The new volumetric clouds are cool, adding realism to what was before, a bland texture on a flat sky. The new weather is also good and with some tweaks will become better.
     
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  12. benuildo

    benuildo Member

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    I think I have to defend DTG a bit. With software like TSW, several problems come together.
    1. A simulation like TSW is a very complex project. I think simulating reality is one of the most difficult tasks as a developer. The product is always compared with reality and the users are usually very critical. That's ok, but...
    2. TSW is a niche product. I don't think the sales numbers are very big compared to other established games. I don't think it would be possible to do TSW perfectly and at the same time break even.
    3. DTG is a company that also has to make money in order to continue to exist. Bills and employees have to be paid, including the testers. So there are natural limits here.
    4. Old stuff doesn't make as much money as new stuff. So in order for the company to survive, new stuff has to be developed in parallel. Correcting bugs is secondary unfortunately.
    5. The most important thing in a simulation is that the technical side and physics work well. Things like graphics and sound sometimes fall by the wayside. Bugs that disrupt the flow of the game, e.g. Red Light Issue, should have top priority. Wrong or bad sound is annoying, but at least the game is playable.
    Of course it would be great if everything was perfect, but I don't think that will ever happen for the reasons mentioned above.
    I think DTG has developed a great product with TSW, which is still being worked on.
    Everyone can decide for themselves whether to buy TSW or not. I'm happy to support it and will continue to buy DLCs. I'm glad there is a decent train simulator at all. I've also been very annoyed about DTG and the state of the game for the last few years, but you just have to take these things into account. Anything is better than nothing. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  13. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with the OP on the BR187. It's just ridiculous what happened there. When I bought it there was nothing wrong with the sound of the BR187. OK it wasn't the original sound of the BR187 but I never noticed anything wrong with it. I guess no one has driven the BR 187 since TSW3 came out because the description of an "ear piercing screeching noise that sounds like cats being tortured" is accurate. So saying nobody forced you to buy TSW3 is a bit numb as this also affects TSW2
     
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  14. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

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    I hope you don’t expect a high speed route to be twisting and turning through tight corners at 250km/h. No, high speed tracks for the most part will be in a straight line and that means go through Mountains and over viaducts. If you want to go twisting and turning at 250km/h and derail be me guest but if you don’t understand how a dedicated high speed line works don’t speak on it
     
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  15. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    The LGV Méditerranée: Marseille - Avignon has much less tunnels.
    Also in Germany are many high speed routes without or less tunnels.
    The Wurzburg Kassel route I think has the most tunnels because it's passing through the german Mittelgebirge (Mountains).
    I don't know why DTG choose this route. Makes it programming more easy?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    A little housekeeping.

    Could we somehow include the phrase " cash grab" in the list of forbidden words.

    I'm heartily sick of reading it.

    While I'm here, how did the euphemism " WTF " become acceptable to the moderators? I find it offensive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  17. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Nope its because its the very first german high speed line in reality and they wanted to ice 1 to come along with it i think
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite agree, "Cash Grab" is up there with Fanboy for being insincere and irritating.

    I also don't understand how WTF amongst others seems to escape attention.
     
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  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would say they do have pride in their products. Still another day, another rant!
     
  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think "cash grab" is not particularly unfair, it can be a valid opinion and no worse than going in the supermarket to find a packet of butter has gone up from £1.70 to £2.00. I certainly don't think TSW3 was quite worth what we paid for it and one has to wonder whether what started out as a free service pack/upgrade was then elevated to be a full on new version albeit more like TSW2.2 than 3.

    As regards "WTF", i always thought that was an abbreviation of, "What the freckle", or flip... :)
     
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  21. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    But who likes to play a route where you drive the most time in tunnels? I travelled this route a few times as a passenger on my yourney's to Hamburg and found it boring. I closed my eye's and tried to sleep...
     
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  22. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

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    Do you know the new eye-adapting effect? That's when you drive out of tunnels. That's right - it takes a lot of tunnels! Now you have tunnels, lots of them. And now you are not only fast but also fast for a long time. There are things that don't even exist, right?
     
  23. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    I am sorry, but for me it is boring ;)
     
  24. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    Then why did you purchase the pack that had this route? Why did you not purchase one of the other variations that did not include this route? They mentioned the tunnels, and how many several times before release so I don't understand why you purchased it.

    But as you have, and as you find it boring, don't drive the route.
     
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  25. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I have to admit most of the criticisms I've seen over the past few years haven't gotten me riled up. Like you, I understand that TSW is a complex project. I have had some issues with the game. One of my pet peeves is that some DLCs (I can't recall which ones right now) give no direction and expect you to have the startup memorized. It's aggravating to get through a startup and have the train just sit there.

    But overall, I love this game. It's one of a handful I play often. I have to be honest and say I wasn't going to buy TSW3 but when I saw Spirit of Steam (which I'd held off buying) included in the Deluxe package (and at a discount for PSN Plus), I went for it. I'm glad I did. I really love Spirit of Steam, for one. And being a Beatles fan, I love it's in Liverpool.

    But you really nailed what should be the whole situation. This is a great game. Cheers to DTG.
     
  26. The_Drunken_Engineer

    The_Drunken_Engineer Well-Known Member

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    I know. I find the word "offensive" offensive myself but nothing is done either :(
     
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  27. armus

    armus Member

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    I think the "Chemical Plant Zone" scenario in "Nahverkehr Dresden" in very frustrating in TSW3, but I don't know how much of that is unique to TSW2. The scenario starts off with a long wait for 2 passenger trains to pass in the opposite direction (I know this part is common with TSW2) -- it's unclear why the player's train needs to change to the opposite tracks when the usual tracks are open. I had to replay this scenario to get gold (which seems to require doing some extra back-and-forths with the train to score more AP, because otherwise you'll still end up very short of the # required for gold). The really frustrating part is that after it's rained it's really easy to get the train stuck where it won't move (either the wheels don't move or they slip in place), or the brakes won't release no matter what you do. Overall the physics on freight trains seems to be much less polished on passenger trains. I've never seen any sign of sand having an effect in TSW2 or TSW3.
     
  28. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    I do not own this route because I know its boring. I am still on TSW2.:)
     
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  29. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    I think SKW is the first route you don't need TSW installed to enjoy, YouTube will be enough :)

    I mean, what's there to do if you're driving ICE1 or 3? You just need to:
    1. Set it on the road on i.e. Kessel and make it move;
    2. Stop it in Fulda, load/unload passengers and on the road again;
    3. Stop it in Wurzburg.
    All the rest is just watching the scennery passing by, because with LZB, PZB and AFB activated I guess those systems will take care of any speed changes along the way, right? I don't own this route, so that's just my assumptions, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  30. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

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    Good. Stay there :)
     
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  31. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Great. More keyboard warriors have arrived.
    Clearly DTG are using some subliminal messages forcing people to buy the game.
     
  32. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    That's basically it yes. Because of Kassel I learned how to work with all LZB so even stopping doesn't even apply anymore. You are just a passenger in the best seat and you decide if the doors open or not. What is very amusing is that the route became interesting when speed limits were imposed and one track was closed so you had to wait a really long time In front of a red light. Most fun I had with the Kassel route so far :D
     
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I can understand using language like that when really riled in a real life situation, although I would try not to use it. To actually type it on a keyboard onto a forum post shows a lack of self restraint and even class to be honest.

    Indeed some are clearly not in control of their wallets!
     
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  34. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Microsoft pays my TSW bill :D
     
  35. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    How the heck, and what gives you the right, to say it is boring when you don't even own it?

    I could understand if you said it looks boring, but not it is boring. I for one do not find it boring. But I do find it boring reading someone's views on something that I later find out they don't have a clue of what they are talking about because they don't own it. And by the way I do own it.
     
  36. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    If you would read all my posts, you would know that I rode this route a few times as a passenger in real live. For me the yourney's were boring and I closed my eye's and tried to sleep. I am sure in a simulation it will not be better. Too much driving in darkness...:(
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
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  37. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    I did read that in one of your other posts. But surly you should be able to realise it is different being a passenger than a driver.
     
  38. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    If you ride or drive a train in darkness I think is the same, as passenger or driver. A few instruments in front of you makes no big difference...;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  39. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Well if you drove as an passenger then its called Rode
     
  40. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

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    Thanks for correcting me, english is not my mother tongue...:cool:
     
  41. vicarious

    vicarious Active Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts and replies. I must admit I am rather surprised that so many players are okay with the many ongoing and unresolved issues this game has and DTG's, er, track record in addressing them. "Nobody forced you to buy it" is a really sad (literally) take and a kind of Stockholm Syndrome that has arisen whereby consumers have been conditioned to identify emotionally with companies and corporations. A company is not a charity (or your friend) and paying customers have every right to expect a quality product and value in exchange for the money they are giving the business. At least when your local plumber doesn't fix your pipes properly there are sure to be other plumbing businesses nearby that you can patronize. When it comes to train simulators the choice is a bit more limited.

    To the person who is sick of hearing the words "cash grab" mentioned in conjunction with the TSW franchise maybe there is a valid reason so many players draw this conclusion. (As for being "offended" by an acronym, all I can say to that is om*g)

    DTG (and potential competitors) take note, I would happily pay two or three times as much for a premium train simulator where attention to authentic detail, consistent sound reproduction, providing a variety of interesting routes and vehicles, overall product coherence and quality control are taken seriously. (The German routes are particularly lacking here.) Dynamic weather is a nice touch but it's not a crucial or key feature in a TRAIN simulator with so many existing problems. Arcing catenary and 3rd rail contacts are much more relevant but even here DTG is sloppy...these should flash like lightning, not spark like heavily applied brake shoes). And so forth.

    Have a great day!
     
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  42. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality. There are many expensive games out there that were a flop and many cheap ones that were extremely well done. It depends on how willing the devs are to make the game as good as it can be so cost doesn't mean much.
     
  43. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Well-Known Member

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    It seems this isn’t the game for you. So instead of ruining your precious time and complaining for the next 24-36 months until TSW4 arrives, it’s probably best you uninstall the game.
     
  44. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    vicarious (and potential other complainers) take note, Even games that cost those two or three times as much, and more, still have their problems.

    And a great day to you as well.
     
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  45. pipanminuta#9703

    pipanminuta#9703 Well-Known Member

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    Is NOT accurate.
     
  46. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I must admit that luckily I don't know the accurate sound of cats being tortured. :D
     
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  47. pipanminuta#9703

    pipanminuta#9703 Well-Known Member

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    Well if we are talking about loco sound, than it's not correct (you can hear real one in video below) but as for the cats being tortured luckily i dont't know it ether. :D

    (I know it is 147 but it sounds same as 187)
     
  48. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    But that is not the sound the 187 has in the game. I wish it sounded like that
     
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  49. vicarious

    vicarious Active Member

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    i agree with almost all of this. What I mean is that IF a premium, high quality train sim were to be developed, I would have no problem paying more for it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be super expensive but niche products do tend to cost a bit more than stuff that has wide appeal and sells lots of copies.
     
  50. pipanminuta#9703

    pipanminuta#9703 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... i know and hope it will finally be updated to the real one
     

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