Change Air Brake Settings How?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by SD40Australia, Sep 24, 2022.

  1. How can I change the air brake settings in TSW3 for US routes (it isn't JUST United States but it is more applicable this way without writing a paragraph on air brakes)?

    Can I edit a file somewhere? Like you used to in Train SImulator?


    I already made a suggestion in Suggestions....

    In Cajon Pass or any serious grade your air is your life..... and I think TSW has sorely missed this opportunity.... because if you are a real engineer like me, you would know it takes 20 minutes to actually put air in a train!!! Not 60 seconds....


    http://www.railway-technical.com/tr...-equipment/brakes/north-american-freight.html




    We need difficulty settings, So- Easy, Medium and Hard.

    Hard can be for full air brake simulation so it doesn't take 15 seconds to charge up the air brake on a 50-100 in length freight.

    It takes much longer and without this Cajon Pass is not rightfully simulated. Taking a 5000tonne train down a 3% grade is very serious but only when you know about the REAL braking system. Apparently it was changed in Sherman Hill. Because people hated waiting correct times to charge the air brake. Is there a way I can alter the settings in a file somewhere so I can get it back to realistic? I thought they were using Simugraph!!!

    This will be good for those who just want to drive a train arcade style>>>>>> select easy and you don't need to learn anything really.


    If you have to stop the train (or apply 3 successive FULL applications) for some reason on steep hills (like Cajon or Tehachapi). the crew have to tie it down, that is apply hand brakes on every car and then release the air brake to charge it. I think after fully charged an initial or minimum application with locomotive brakes might hold it otherwise an application enough to keep it still, then releasing it after the hand brakes have been released. There might be some articles on Trains magazine web site or rail fan sites about this.

    http://www.railway-technical.com/tr...-equipment/brakes/north-american-freight.html

    It has a good description in the 4th paragraph "Successive applications".

    Only people that are real world engineers and brake specialists ie in the industry understand this.
     
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  2. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    As you said, people got tired of waiting for brake lines to charge on Sherman hill so I think DTG have gone with a compromise approach--that is, a compromise between realism and gameplay.

    Cheers
     
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  3. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I am not an engineer and I have zero problems with understanding THIS but you are right about settings or other possible solution.
     
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  4. Well with difficulty settings it can allow those of us to enjoy the full simulator experience. Otherwise it is disappointing that that happened.....
     
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  5. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2022
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    How is "waiting" hard?
    Knowing how to do it and getting the brakes settings right on a gradient etc is no doubt complicated, but waiting for a compressor to blow for minutes on end may be "real" but isn't what I would call complex

    I understand that DTG did simulate the "long wait" previously but it got complaints because people who want to drive trains on a sim don't want to wait for half the run time while the brakes charge.
    Maybe they could have put in runs where the train was setup and good to go, but no doubt that would also displease people who want "to set things up" but don't want to "waste" half an hour twiddling thumbs
     
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  7. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately TSW is a leisure activity, do I want to spend my time sat waiting 20 minutes for the brakes to charge? sorry but no.

    Im certainly not against a hard setting but at the same time I want it to be hard not tedious
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Perhaps a real parameters could be an overkill. I am a hardcore sim lover and I can wait but a noticeable & reasonable representation of air propagation and other things like this is enough for the gameplay purposes, for most people.

    It is easy to understand the arguments of real engineers, but they have this realism on a daily basis :D #neverenough
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2022
  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Just cuz they use simugraph doesn't mean the physics are going to be a 1:1 of the real thing. If they did, I bet it would take years to make a single route. It's probably a lot of work to make different levels of difficulty. But I'm not a game developer so I don't know how complex it is. I'm a casual player and don't want to spend hours setting up a train and waiting for the brakes to charge. I do get bored pretty quickly. And just cuz it's called a simulator doesn't mean it simulates everything perfectly or is realistic at all. There are many sims out there that call themselves simulator but are really arcady and not a simulator by any means. I still support you but I bet adding this feature is not going to be easy
     
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  10. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I have some crew experience, but it is limited to vintage equipment. However, it is my understanding that the current TSW situation on Cajon Pass is more realistic than what we had on Sherman Hill in that it models a crew change. Pumping up the brakes is typically required when trains are initially made up at their origin and is the first step of what can be a long and involved process called the Initial Terminal Brake Test.

    Changing crews does not involve a full discharge of the train line and brake cylinders ("dynamiting" the train), and therefore the brakes do not have to be pumped up or fully recharged. Typically, trains are handed off "hot" with a quick debriefing between the exiting and oncoming crew. The new engineer releases the brake application, notches up the throttle, and then performs a running air test as the train leaves.
     
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  11. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps as a compromise we could have some cold start services in the timetable as {service}A and then continues as {service}B starting 20-30 minutes later in the timetable where you take over the service with the brakes primed.
    If you want that ultra reality effect you can do both back to back, the rest of us can just skip the A part and go straight in B
     
  12. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    It is not just the brakes in a cold start - all the systems have to be initiated and that alone will likely take 30 minutes or more - not practical in TSW3 since not all systems are fully modeled. I like the suggestion of edrev1917 - a mix of cold start or other services with correct brake setup procedures/times, but braking difficulty settings have been in the sim before, so no reason that could not be done. The latter could allow for correct procedures throughout a run (such as limitations on full applications), not just initial setup.
     
  13. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if a future US route had a realistic cold start for a steam locomotive.....
     
  14. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    A 3 hour dull fess, its a no from me. But whatever floats your boat.
     
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  15. Whitsim

    Whitsim Member

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    Unless you’re working for a small short line, the likelyhood for a US Class 1 Railroad freight engineer to cold start a loco is slim. Power is normally left idling and often don’t dwell long between shifts in yards.

    When a crew takes a train out of the yard, it typically is already “made up” and partially pumped with air. Depending on the specific railroad procedure, the auto brake is left cut-in and only partially applied. This is even the case when a train receives a crew change enroute.

    It is completely unrealistic in most instances to have a train fully cutout and require charging from zero.
     
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  16. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    I have no real railroad experience, but by just logic alone. If you need to do anything that takes more than a few minutes, you wouldn't be doing it on the main line, but you would route the train into a siding, so it doesn't block other trains running behind it. All services start on the mainline, so I assume the plan wasn't for the train to sit there for 30 minutes waiting for it to charge its brakes.

    Sherman Hill wasn't more realistic, or harder... it was borderline stupid.
    The air simulation is there, and it's not changed. So the difficult part - not to abuse youre air brakes when going down the hill - is still there, and it takes time until the system is recharged. You can easily verify this just by looking at the EOTD reading. It takes minutes until the rear of the train gets to similar pressure than the loco BP reading.
     
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  17. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    1. Initial state of the train.
    2. Air propagation.
    These are two different things.
    The second one is about realism and challenge eg when going downhill.

    EDIT
    This determines the behavior of the train, especially in mountainous territory, and it is not about how long we wait, because the train is moving, but about how the brakes behave. It could be harder or easier to handle.

    ...

    Possible solution for newbes in more realistic environment could be a "cheat key" eg like in Run 8, to charge BP instantly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2022
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  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    If it takes 20 mins to release my brakes, I'm literally never going to play the route.

    If you want it to, why not just pause the game for 20 mins, then carry on as you were?! :D
     
  19. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I've had a look on Cajon Pass, and one significant thing changed between that and Sherman Hill, and that is the behavior of the banking coms. Previously, when using banking coms, the helpers mimicked power settings only.

    This is different In Cajon Pass, the helpers brakes are cut-in and the brake settings are copied from the lead unit. So if you release brakes, the helper do so aswell, and also start to pump air into the system... and as the EOTD reading is most likely the last loco unit, the EOTD brake pipe pressure quickly moves to 90psi, as the helper is pushing air into the system. In this case you have no way to know the state of the system (how charged it is), because the lowest pressure point would be in the middle of the train, and there is no reading for that.

    Without using banking coms, or in a train without helper it takes significant time for the pressure increase to manifest in the rear. In a 0.7miles intermodal train (Z-ELPSDG5-07), release from 82psi BP, it took 40seconds for 1psi incrase in the rear, and 4minutes for the rear to reach 87psi.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
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  20. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Air Flow Meter would be useful in this scenario. Unfortunately, there's no working AFM at the moment, honestly that's a very useful indicator to monitor the state of the air brake system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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