The new ICE L made by Talgo - the Spanish manufacturer - has been shown, on a train event in Germany Video by JoshuaFilmt Well just a passenger car... But painted on DB colors so it seems it is confirmed! We will have it next year on TSW3?....
Yes these are the former ECx - DB have decided they will be ICE's now - they are push pull sets with a top speed of 230km/h
Well, I still stand by Talgo trains being one of the ugliest things to have ever been put on rails, but I do appreciate a return to loco-hauled consists all the same.
To me, these arent real ICEs. Sure, they are cool trains, but they have not deserve the ICE mark. IC would fit much better, as these are loco-hauled coaches. Also, they cant even drive as fast as ICEs. The maximum speed with the Talgo locomotive is 230 (which is as fast as an ICE T, the slowest ICE), but the point is: At the beginning, all ICE L trains will be hauled by a Vectron which can only go 160. And even when the Talgo locomotives will be delivered, not every ICE L line will have them. Most of them will keep the Vectron, only one line is planned to have the Talgo locos. Not an ICE for me
Matching route Osnabrück to Amserfoot via Bad Bentheim. Remember to ask the dispatcher to change the voltage from 15kv 16.7hz to 1.5kv DC.
Spot on. These train sets seem quite nice from what I have seen on YouTube but DB marketing them as ICEs (and presumably charging the ICE surcharge) is unfortunate. They will replace the current BR101 hauled IC trains on some routes and calling them ICE is a bit ridiculous. Unless ICE is no longer a specific class of train built to run on dedicated high speed lines at 250km/h+ but just a flexible marketing term that means whatever DB wants it to mean... The new Talgo "ICE" is more like the ÖBB's Railjet train (a very fine product IMO) and DB's playing marketing games (as with the IC2 and even the ICE T) is, well, DB being DB. The thing is customers are not stupid, as so many companies these days seem to think. It's a locomotive hauled IC-style train with 21st century amenities like level boarding etc. Don't brand it as an ICE only because it is new and has a slightly faster top speed than the current ICs.
Tbf, there are and were loco hauled ICEs. Just look at the MET, ICE1 or ICE2 (all of them were driven as consists, though). But, of course, it is just a marketing thing. The IC Brand will become the new, what was known to be the inter Regio, which, at the time, was marketed below the ICs. Just look at the Dosto ICs... And DB is quite oben about this. All 101s will be retired soon and so are going to be the old IC Waggons, which, from a passenger perspective, can only be considered a good thing. Most of these lines will live on as ICEs. This is why DB has ordered 137 ICE4. In addition, DB needed a platform which is a bit more flexible then a classic ICE, as it will be fairly easy to drive them up non electrified routes. The unique thing about the talgo ICEs is the stepless entry, which will be the new standard for all new ordered long haul trains in Germany (as said by DB). It’s going to be interesting to see how Siemens is going to react with their current platform. I would hate it if they had to go a similar route as Alstom with the TGV, as I, too, love the current unit design of the ICE3 and on. Also, as the waggon is so short, it is wider then current ICEs.
To be fair, 250+ has long been a thing of the past when you look at the latest generations of ICEs ordered. I’m very curious about what these trains will look like when they’re in series production and about this new Br 105. As ugly as Talgo stuff might be, a loco hauled ICE is like a dream-come-true for me.
Why does everyone like loco hauled trains? What's wrong with a multiple unit? Genuinely curious - not trying to instigate anyone!
I wouldn't say everyone, but let me answer all the same. Obviously, I can only speak for myself. For me, a loco hauled consist is a "proper" train with a powerhouse at one end and some coaches afterwards. On the other hand, an MU is not a "proper" train for me, it's just some coaches with a motor (obviously not how it works, but that's what my mind simplifies it to) - it's lacking the beating heart, the loco. However, I have to admit that I've been coming around to MUs a bit lately. Older MUs in particular do have a certain charm. Be that as it may, an MU will never have the same appeal to me as a proper loco (and therefore loco hauled consists). A loco is just a versatile powerhouse while an MU is very limited in its application and (most often) only as powerful as it needs to be.
Oh I didn't even notice they changed the design. Can't quite decide, they both are not quite appealing to me (yet) The 2019 one looks more futuristic with the black shiny front, but the 2022 one has a better front shape, it is not as flat and more aerodynamic.
I see - the Geoff Marshall approach. I thought that was just him! What about things like the Intercity 125 or the Intercity 225? Do they count as proper trains? So you have nothing against MUs, you just prefer locomotives - understood! I like them both. I think I might like the second one better, because I feel like if they try and make the first one it will end up like the Merseyrail Class 777, which looks like it should have been designed to look better than it actually does. The 777 does look nice though, but I feel like it could have looked better.
They're more like MUs to me because they run in fixed consists. I know that's not exactly logical as they're technically loco hauled just like the TGVs, ICE 1, or VT 11.5s, but we are talking about highly subjective personal views and bias, which won't always be logical. Exactly, nothing against MUs, there are some I love like the British Class 101 or the German Schienenbus VT 798. I can absolutely understand people with the opposite bias to me or none at all, I just personally prefer loco hauled stuff. If they plan on running them at 230km/h, they'll go with the latter design, which is more aerodynamic. The boxy 2019 design looks like a nightmare from an aerodynamic point of view.
Also very interesting. If they made a multiple unit that looked like a rake of coaches sandwiched between two Class 37s, would that be a proper train or would you consider it a MU. Obviously this would never happen so your answer probably isn't going to hurt anyone. I can see now why people like loco hauled trains. Very enlightening - thank you.
That would probably lean closer to a loco hauled consist for me. Reminds me of the Br 101 sandwiches you sometimes see here in Germany. But yeah, purely theoretical stuff with little bearing on reality. You're welcome. Always lovely to exchange viewpoints.
I genuinely thought these were going to stay concepts but I guess not, even more surprised that they are being designated ICE and not IC. I mean I am looking at this train and to me it just looks like a new IC train.
Some clearer pics of the cab car and overall sets https://www.skyscrapercity.com/thre...on-projects-discussion.1114679/post-181510734 The red coaches in the background are for the DSB (Danish national railways) although they do not seem like they will have a cab car. https://www.talgo.com/dsb https://twitter.com/Terradez_/status/1632154101524971522?s=20 https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7038906078310371329/ Talgo seem to be doing quite well at the moment, they just got a French(!) order for their new Avril high speed trains too. https://www.railjournal.com/passeng...ct-with-talgo-for-10-avril-high-speed-trains/
