Accessibility Options (not Just Pc...)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by DTG Matt, Sep 26, 2022.

  1. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Go Via and Stop At icons will be changing in an upcoming build, have seen that change go in already :)
     
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  2. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    When ending a service, it should give the option to return to the current route menu, not the main menu. It's a hassle to have to start over fromt the main menu all the time.
    When you selected a route, and go to timetable mode, it lists all avl trains for said route, but nowhere does it say how many services are avl for each train. TSW2 did have that info. Can that please be put back in?
     
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  3. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I believe there used to be an option to return to the game, so you could just leave the train and walk to wherever you want (for example, walk to another train to do a return journey). Wouldn't mind seeing that option return.
     
  4. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Purno i'll check but that should be there - used to be "return to free roam" seem to recall it got renamed, but at the end of a service you absolutely should be able to go back to the cab of the train and do what you want next. If it's gone, i'll get that fixed.

    OnlyMe1909 train service counts are on the task list to go back in, was raised earlier in the thread (or elsewhere, cant remember) and I put it on UI's todo list yesterday - they are there if yo ugo via the "train" menu, but not if you go route-first, so it was an oversight.

    Matt.
     
  5. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    I wish TSW 3 had a slider to scale the entire HUD and menu, because even when it's set to small I still find it way too big.
    Currently I'm using an engine.ini entry to minimize UI and HUD to 60% (it just looks much tidier and you don't feel like the game is in blind mode), I'd be happy if such a function was available by default in TSW 3.
     
  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I tried the engine.ini mod for a while and 60% worked very fine for me. I'd probably still be able to read the numbers even below 60%, but 60% was already quite a huge improvement over the default 100%.

    So please, TrainSim-Matt , a slider to scale UI/HUD would be awesome.
     
  7. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Force feedback and sound cues for blind people. I once was very surprised to read a blind person asking for auditive cues in a formula 1 video game. Never imagined blind people play video games but they seem to do. So all visual cues like markers and everything that helps us, players that can see what is on the screen, to drive a train get a sound effect.

    Not asking this as a blind person but since the topic is about accessibility maybe think of people you don't attract yet but could attract because they feel included.
     
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  8. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    When having to set points in the map, moving the cursor with the left stick (consoles) can be such a hassle. It would be good if we were able to jump from point to point using the d-pad. Would be a big improvement.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just putting it out there, what about being able to map a steering wheel and pedals to game. Would that help some people. Wheel representing the power wheel on the 155 and maybe pedals to pick up a few bits
     
  10. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Could track it be used to move a cursor ? Just another random thought for those that may navigate using their head
     
  11. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Most of my awareness of blind gamers is from the competitive FPS scene, where they are terrifyingly hardcore.
     
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  12. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I would like a simpler system to access and interact with the screens in certain trains. For example, using a controller to access AFB and and set the destination on ICEM3 takes forever. Even when zoomed in, it is so fiddly to move the cursor with the controller to select an option. Perhaps when the cursor is in the vicinity of an interactive screen, there could be a prompt to view that screen in full-screen.
     
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  13. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Well-Known Member

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    The ball in the HUD, I am not able to distinguish shade, especially shade o gray, and looking at the ball I can never tell whether it is accelerating/decelerating (there is the green German locomotive, and another German train that have coloured ball and it change according to what the locomotive does)
     
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  14. jackthom

    jackthom Active Member

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    Different colours for accelerating, decelerating and near constant speed is an excellent idea IMO. My eyesight is reasonably good yet I find it hard to read the accelerometer except when it has shifted a considerable distance from zero.
     
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  15. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with those comments on the accelerometer. An option to replace it with a simple accelerating/decelerating indicator would be appreciated, as would an option to have speeds above 10mph display the speed to 0.1mph as speeds below 10mph do.
     
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  16. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

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    In some cabins, the views can be switched using the arrow keys. Some of then also show control panels, displays or other elements. Unfortunately, it is often the case that the cursor cannot be moved in this view, which makes this view pretty much useless. And that would significantly improve the accessibility of the interactive controls!
     
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  17. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Again, not sure if it's accessibility-related (perhaps it is), I never really understood why the LZB interface on the HUD only displays the distance to the next speed restriction, but not the speed restriction itself. As far as I understood, both the distance counter and the speed limit together form the crucial information of LZB, and are both displayed toghether on the in-cab instruments, but somehow only the distance counter made it to the HUD. Why is that? TrainSim-Matt
     
  18. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Right-click.
     
  19. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

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    Nope, no mouse, just a controller. Because not just PC...
     
  20. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Are you certain there is no button that does the same thing as right-clicking does on PC?
     
  21. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    On controller you can switch views with the camera shift (hold down right stick) and i think.... left dpad? or right if not. one cycles internal cameras and one cycles external cameras. But yes the comment about some older cabs having locked views remains true - newer ones shouldn't.
     
  22. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

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    I mean that! In some views you can see a complete control panel that could be operated wonderfully with the cursor - if it could be moved...

    You then have to get out of this view and sometimes leave the driver's seat to operate the element from the FPV.

    I see this as an inconsistency that shouldn't be and DTG should set a standard here.

    Unfortunately, I can't say which locomotives it affects because I have all the DLC and checking all of them would take me half a day. But there are enough to be noticed.

    Things could be so easy if you set standards and adapt them instead of trying to do better a long time later. So with every DLC it's a surprise what accessibility interactive elements have - or not. There is no standard, but there is an inconsistency. Bad deal I think.
     
  23. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Removing instances of transparency in the UI so the contrast is much better for those who struggle to read. Additionally there should be an option for high contrast menu modes both light and dark (especially light, as text is easiest read when it is not block capitals and when it's black text on white - dark modes are usually much worse for readability but people will complain about being blinded by the light mode so it's best to add both).
     
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  24. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Please make this optional because I quite like transparency in the HUD. Especially when the HUD is way larger than it should be. It helps being able to see what happens behind the areas blocked by HUD.
     
  25. r4g3nony

    r4g3nony Active Member

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    Quick play menu option in the main menu as well.
    Or some sort of recently played option quick play, route/loco etc.
    If someone is playing a certain root recently it'll always show up in main menu instead of navigating the whole thing.
     
  26. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Still wanted to give some feedback on this. And I would like to stress the point, that this particular topic has definitely improved with the recent routes added. However, there are still issues here and there and I will try to explain it as good as possible (try to explain vision to a blind...). The problem with colour deficiencies is that everybody suffering from this will actually see it slightly different. The majority of us suffer from a red / green deficiency, so am I, however, even this group will sense colours in different environments differently. I this that will make it quite difficult to create a "one fits all" solution. Nevertheless, I think there is a way which would help the vast majority.

    I would like to come back to my first example from Wuppertag - Hagen, where I was absolutely not able to differentiate between green and yellow. The red is usually no problem, as it has a completely different contrast, which I have no problem with spotting, even from far away. All lights on this picture look absolutely the same to me:
    Hagen_1.jpg

    What makes this route (and previous routes) special, is the fact that I cannot even tell the difference, even though they are right next to each other. That meant, in order to identify these signals, I had to look at the HUD, or check which lights on the signal itself are lid (on modern signals that would not work, as one light can have different colours)

    The next picture is Hambug Lübeck, where I am mostly able to see differences, as long as the lights are next to each other:
    Hamburg.jpg
    However, if I see a distant signal from far away, its still difficult to really tell what colour it has. In this picture it is easy, as there are other signals close by, where I can see the difference in contrast (green is lighter then yellow).

    On Kassel I dont seem to have difficulties, apart from a distance. When the signal fades into view, there is a moment I simply cannot tell:
    Vorsignal rot_gelb_zoom.jpg

    I have made the proposal before and I still believe that this would solve the issue for 95% of us (pls step in if you see it differently), if we had an option to switch all green signal lights to a true white. I am coming back to Hagen, where all shunting signals where bright white:
    Hagen Sh1.jpg

    This is very easy to differentiate from yellow. Another option would be to add another colour, like blue. Lets say all yellow lights would be blue, this would make it easy to spot it from miles away. This would probably solve the problem for 99% of us (again, I am making these figures up, however, it is representing my exchange with people who have the same issue). The problem with blue is that, at least for me, it would be too far from reality in order for it to generate a high level of immersion. The white for green, on the other hand, is not very far off reality, I think. At least for me;)
     
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  27. captaingunadeep

    captaingunadeep Active Member

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    I would want Light Clouds weather preset as default weather in timetable mode.
     
  28. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    In addition to issues for people with colour deficiencies the signals have become harder to see for all players in daylight with the new lighting. For example, red and yellow signals appear very similar at mid distance, and all signals are practically invisible when at a further distance, as their brightness seems to be affected by the eye adaptation process. This means that the HUD signal aspects have to be relied on much more now because I just can’t see signals early enough or distinguish red from yellow when they are first visible, even in 4k on a large screen. It feels like as someone without the need for such accessibility assistance I am relying on them because signals are just not distinct or visible enough in game.
     
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  29. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps expanding the upcoming signal display from just three colours to a full diagram of the next signal would help. I have the RailWorks manual and it actually gave a list of all of the possible signals you'd come across in the game but the manuals have got worse over timer and it makes me very angry indeed.
     
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  30. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

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    To add to this, some games have screenshot previews in the settings menu that show the relevant effect of various options as you hover over them. These previews also change based on what quality level you have selected for that particular thing (if you set medium shadows, the screenshot will have medium shadows as well, etc.), which makes it even more explicit.
     
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That would help in the HUD but I’d like to see the signals in the game world and not have to rely on the HUD at all. That’s not possible now because they are so dim in the daytime and the yellow signals look like red signals when I first see them. I have to play with the signal aspects turned on in the HUD which I haven’t done for quite some time in TSW2 (except on Spirit of Steam to avoid the spads!)
     
  32. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Showing all the aspects on the HUD isn't practical - how do you show "red/yellow/red red/green/red red/red/red lunar off" on the HUD? Don't say "use words" because then it needs localising and german and chinese can mean suddenly you're filling the width of the screen with text if it's at any sensible font size.

    The HUD was only intended to be an overview "clear, stop, something in the middle", and lined up to match with the average players non-understanding of signals (and no, tutorials don't really help - it's just too much information). It needs to use simple iconography that's easily understood and very easily explained. It's never going to capture the nuances and details in their entirety.

    Having the aspects more clearly visible in the world is a clearly obvious must-do IMHO - including standardising on clarity for colour-able players (which has improved but from the sounds of it needs to yet further), and also looking at colour options to give a secondary colour set of aspects so that you have say (example...) white, blue and something else instead of green/yellow/red - so that aspects are clearly visible to those with different colour issues.

    Keep the input coming.

    Matt.
     
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  33. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    That depends on how large it is. The RailWorks manual I mentioned has all of them displayed on one A4 sheet, and each one is about a centimetre across. It should be quite simple to do it, there's enough free space on the screen.
     
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  34. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    redyellowred redgreenred redredred lunaroff.png

    Which I guess is fine for the non-understanding players, but it can throw off the understanding players (or simply be useless to them).

    What's wrong with having two options? One simplier one (the current one) and the more advanced one? I don't see why it cannot capture the nuances and details in their entirety. All these signal aspects fit on one pole, so I don't see how it wouldn't fit on a small vertical HUD segment.
     
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  35. matthew.lee.02

    matthew.lee.02 Member

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    In my opinion, I think it’s worth consulting with professionals who are experts in accessible design. While community input is very important, accessibility is something that is very difficult to get right. It’s really difficult to “gauge” and develop for those who have a specific disability without actually having that disability, since there are so many things that might not be considered.
     
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  36. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'm mostly asking the community that *do* have issues to ask for *their* opinions because I don't have those disabilities and nobody in the company does. We're looking at getting expertise for this too - however - who better to ask than a player of the game what is causing them problems for their situations and what they think might help?

    If someone doesn't have disabilities nor experience from someone with them, i'm not sure what value they could contribute to this discussion anyway, but i'll read all posts and weigh up options of course.

    Matt.
     
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  37. Moggy

    Moggy New Member

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    I've been asked to write a few lines about my experiences and thoughts on TSW. As some of you are aware I have very limited motor function of the right side of my body which obviously affects gaming. As I've become older, using a controller such a playstation or Xbox controller is now virtually impossible, the 4 buttons on the right are ok as long as only 1 button press is required but the shoulder buttons and sticks are not usable for me. So I'm now exclusively a PC gamer which brings its own issues, namely the keyboard. PC keyboards are designed for 2 hand operation and therefore gaming follows suit. As far as TSW goes, controls on the left side of the keyboard such as throttle, reverser and AWS cancel are fine but controls on the right such as brakes, PZB etc. are difficult to use as pressing an individual key can be tricky. The options I have is to either rest a finger on an anticipated key or use my left hand, not perfect but it's a workaround.
    Using a mouse and keyboard such as to walk around a station or loco cab presents a similar problem. I have a Razer Naga mouse which has 12 plus buttons on the side, so I'm using macros I've made for movement and a few other vital controls.
    I've given it some thought to come up with a few solutions to help myself and others which I'd like to share.
    Firstly, controls on screen like the TSC F4 HUD would be a great benefit, I know you can manipulate controls with the mouse in cab but I think it would help those with limited head or neck movement.
    Secondly, I'd like to see controller support for controllers like throttle quadrants such has my CH throttle quadrant which has 6 levers and buttons. Manipulating a lever or horizontally mounted button is far easier than trying to press an individual key on a keyboard.
    Thirdly, I'd like to see head\eye tracking systems be implemented. They would definitely be useful as far as movement goes.
    Lastly, have the ability to change mouse controls so we can easily map foot movement controls for instance.
    Thank you for letting me voice my opinion here and apologies for the length\delay of my response. If you'd like any further information, don't hesitate in contacting me.
     
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  38. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Using Steam Link app eg on Android phone allows to play TSW using virtual interactive fully configurable (clickable) gamepad showed on screen. One hand, one finger is enough to play this way. I like to see such solution for PC version to be possible playing only with one hand, using mouse only, but not via in-cab controls.
     
  39. davederave#6508

    davederave#6508 New Member

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    One thing I would really like to see is the ‘Next Signal’ Hud. I’m colourblind & can’t always see the signal colour in game, (hardly ever), so the hud is extremely useful, but I wish it didn’t appear so soon. The fact I can see the signal 2.5 miles away takes away from the immersion. I personally think the ‘next signal’ HUD shouldn’t appear until you’re much closer, say ~500yards. Eyesight distance basically. Currently, it works like in cab signalling.
     
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  40. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    We ought to be able to detect when it's visible (e.g. barring obstructions) and within x distance and only show it then perhaps?
     
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  41. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    That first part sounds like an engineering nightmare to figure out!

    Cheers
     
  42. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Nah - cast a ray from the camera to the signal, see if anything breaks the beam. We do that all the time for other things, fairly basic UE4 thing.
     
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  43. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Of course! UE4 is very powerful indeed.

    Cheers
     
  44. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It is all code-EZ. Proper concept is crucial.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    YES. The Javelin has this built into the dash beside the digital speedo, a simple up-arrow/down-arrow display, and it's great.
     
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  46. rattyfus

    rattyfus New Member

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    The Crosshairs Size option in the Accesibility Settings menu is STILL not saved between game launches. Come on guys, how hard can it be to hard save a setting? Looking forward to the fix as I always use large crosshairs.
     
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  47. davederave#6508

    davederave#6508 New Member

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    This would be ideal. I try my best to ignore the Hud currently, until I need it. But it’s far from full proof. Another element that often seems unclear & muddled (could be my colourblindness) the map display, when changing points. It’s currently confusing to which way they’re set in more complicated yards. Often I’m sure I’ve set them correctly, only to realise too late that i have not.
     
  48. frank351981

    frank351981 Active Member

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    I don´t know when it changed (I assume with last update) but actually it´s not anymore possible to play a scenario / timetable and go out via ESC to change or look after some settings. Then now it´s not possible to continue the drive because theres no such button anymore. You can RESTART the scenario, go back to main menü and other exit-stuff.
    So for me: I want the option back to return into the scenario directly without restart, without saving and reload, one and easy click "Continue", so as it was before!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2022
  49. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    The good 'ol accessibility thread, haven't seen one in a while and can't remember much happening, hope it does this time. As someone who suffers from SCA 14 and a ton of secondary issues like Double vision the vison side is where I have most problems. I doubt my poor co-ordination is something DTG can do anything about so will stick to the visual side.

    With my double vision I see two perfect images but they are not aligned I use glasses with prisms in which help but are not perfect especially with smaller text and looking at other things then coming back to focus on the thing I started looking at. Even shutting one eye doesn't stop it but helps with things like the TV.

    What does help is sharper text and 3d looking text. It is hard to explain but things like text look a lot clearer to me in 3d looking text. I don't mean actual 3d (although that does help me) I'm talking where you have text in like florescent colours and to me the text 'pops' making it easier to read. Like you get in watch faces where you get a shiny jet black dial and then you get florescent red markings, the red 'pops' or sometimes when you look at film thumbnails in Netflix or prime they use an electric blue and red and it just pops. Other colours work as well. I don't know if this is possible or any of it but I'd like instead of the speedo on the hud to be able to use the speedo on the loco and everytime you put the cursor over it it 'pops' a little.
     
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  50. Oelix

    Oelix Active Member

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    Since the HUD has been brought up so much, here's a little thing: When I started playing TSW2, the diagonal white lines on the upper right part of the screen confused me, as seen here: The displays "169 m" and "30 km/h" apparently belong together because of the common grey background, but the white lines create a barrier and sort of create a link between "169 m" and the red signal instead. The confusion went away quickly, of course, but I still find the lines to be needlessly distracting and see no practical use for them. I'd like them gone, or made less visible.

    20210328100427_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2022

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