From Tsw2 To Tsw3 Performance Issues

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Arpadiam, Sep 11, 2022.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just to put my ten penneth worth in. I have started running the game under dx12 on a 2080ti and I’ve seen enough of a performance jump to dial everything back up to ultra and locked it to 60fps.

    that’s on an ultra wide 1440 monitor. To be transparent external cam goes as low as 30fps in heavy areas but 80% of time is north of 50fps
     
  2. btom

    btom Member

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    so u think a GTX 1650 GPU should be fine running TSW3? Man I don't know how to reply to this without coming across as sarcastic. Maybe I shouldn't say anything then, except to say bs
     
  3. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry, I didn't realise the GTX 1650 was worse than the GTX 750ti. My bad - I'm not that knowledgable with GPUs, I just look at the number (and the GTX RTX thingy) and make an estimate.

    I appreciate you trying to not insult me though.
     
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  4. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    TSW2 was running perfect on my 1650s at 1080p@60fps with ultra settings and barely tops 90% of gpu usage on certain situations with no stutter or framedrops

    the recommended settings for TSW3 are ( and for most of the games ) to run it a 1440p/4k@60fps with all settings on high/ultra so dont come saying "wHy yoU RuN ThE GAme With A 1650"

    also the game ask for a 3070 with none of the features of RTX or DLSS or even FSR 2.1

    and to close this, TSW3 have issues that are pretty well stated herehttps://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/best-quality-shadows-and-errors-in-default-configuration.50462/ and devs are looking at it

    of course it is, even if he have to run it at 720p, what the problem with it?, or you thing everyone have the money to buy a top of the line gpu?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  5. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    It does not matter anyway since TSW always stutters and is always a badly optimized game
    Them asking for a 3070 for this 2018 graphics game while it of course still stutters is beyond ridiculous
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  6. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Love how people happily throw around remarks such as "Badly optimized".
    As if it's a deliberate decision by the devs.
    Frame rate has been a constant complaint, ever since the first iteration of Tsw.

    Unreal was chosen as the best engine available at the time and even then there must have been some compromises.
    Now version five has appeared which should indicate that that there were a lot of things that needed fixing
    If you expect perfect software for the paltry sum you've paid you're going to grow up disappointed.

    I'm sorry the OP is having problems.
    For me TSW3 is running faster and smoother than it did under TSW2 at a higher frame rate on my older pc.
    Plus there are far fewer and less noticeable stutters.
    That's with a vanilla ini file.
     
  7. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I bet now that if you buy one of the new RTX 4xxx, TSW2 or TSW3 will stutter like hell no matter what.
     
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  8. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    and dont you think that by this iteration of TSW should at least ironed out most of those issues that are still present in TSW3 since TSW1?

    i beg to differ, go and check assetto corsa competizione, you wont find any other UE4.26 game running so pefect and so well optimized


    and i believe you still the game have issues and they pretty well stated in Best Quality Shadows And Errors In Default Configuration here, Direct link to the issue

    as i said before for me TSW2 was running perfect with no stutter and no framedrops, same routes and same service in TSW3 is a stutter fest and bad frametime and this is with the same pc, something is wrong with TSW3 and it needs to be looked at which devs I HOPE are doing it
     
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  9. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    yes i buy RTX 4090
     
  10. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Confirmed by my brother: blueprints are single thread by default, so they run on the same thread as the renderer, hence the stutters.

    He says that they eliminated stutters from their project with multi-threading.

    Any UE games with stuttering just aren't being coded to take advantage of multi-thread hardware. It technically isn't a fault with the engine at all.

    This isn't "throwing around" accusations of bad optimisation; this is someone with years of experience as a games developer (who even rewrote Sony's own core PlayStation libraries to make them run better) who can blatantly see and understands the issues evident with the software. So when he says it could be optimised better, I'll tend to believe him, not just because he's my flesh and blood.
     
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  11. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Which may makes sense. I have a relatively high end processor and it was awful at stuttering whereas running under dx12 it’s a different game which I guess I’d where it offloads some to the Gpu
     
  12. btom

    btom Member

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    Here's what I think is going on. You have a GTX 1650 4GB gpu, and what might be happening is when you play TSW3, it needs more than 4GB vram to run smoothly, (actually it needs 8GB), so it swaps out game data to your Motherboard RAM sticks for more memory room then back again to the video card, that swapping back and forth of game data to and from your motherboard RAM sticks is causing a delay which shows up on the TSW3 game as stuttering. In other words, wait time. The fix is to run your TSW3 with a video card with at least 8GB of vram, which is actually the recommended amount of vram required to play TSW3 smoothly. In other words, your 1650 4gb card is too small which is causing game delays.
     
  13. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Certainly low VRAM won't help with overall rendering speed, but occasional stutters aren't fixed by higher VRAM, as they aren't caused by low VRAM. My GPU has 8GB with stutters on low graphics settings, not just higher settings. I'm pretty sure others here have GPUs with even more VRAM and stutters.

    See my post above re stutters. A higher single core CPU speed should help reduce stutters, as it's apparent the software is overloading on a single thread.

    The real fix is multi-thread optimisation, which DTG have to do.
     
  14. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I don't know enough about how forcing DX12 "mode" works, as the game doesn't officially support it/isn't written for DX12, but maybe UE4 takes care of some multi-thread offloading of processes as best it can when it's activated? I really don't know. But DX12 is certainly more multi-thread oriented, especially when feeding the GPU rendering pipelines I believe (at least when it is properly implemented).
     
  15. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, for comparison (re the theory that hardware is the issue), the huge project my brother and his fellow devs are working on is in UE4, and they have an early UE5 build in testing too. Neither version stutters (since multi-thread optimisation was done). My brother and some of his colleagues are coding and testing it on GTX 1070 GPUs, and believe me the rendering is more complex than TSW.
     
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  16. btom

    btom Member

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    the GTX 1650 is a 128 bit bus bandwidth card, having a 256 bit bus card would reduce stuttering
     
  17. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, players with 3070 or + have stuttering too.
     
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  18. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I think you're avoiding the fact that DTG can do a lot more on their end. Yes, better hardware will help with faster rendering and smoother results, but as already said hardware isn't the main cause and fault of stuttering here.

    See Maxipolo 12's comment and my other posts above.
     
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  19. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    How many of you have own liveries and creators club? I've noticed this evening the games ran far smoother with virtually no stutters and a vast improvement on yesterday. The difference? I deleted every single custom livery
     
  20. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    No liveries. Never used Creator's Club. No mods. All stock game.
     
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  21. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    TSW3 never tops my 4gb vram even running the textures in LOW and with textureStreaming=1 ( to reduce even more the vram usage ) and using barely 2gb of Vram the stuttering and bad frametime is still there, again it been already stated in the thread i linked 2 times in this thread that is an issue with Unreal engine on how it loads and unloads assets plus what March Hare and geloxo mentioned , this issue wasn't present on TSW2 is something that came with TSW3

    i would accept your argument but after testing and testing and testing nothing helps and was already ALSO said that ppl with top of the line pc are having the same issue, so is not a matter of how much Vram there is available
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  22. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Same. And it's an issue on console as well as PC, the consoles where they only had one hardware spec to optimise it for. So it's not just a matter of individual issues on the user's end.
     
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  23. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    And just to return to this "stuttering is due to low VRAM or bandwidth" claim, no – in that case, where it becomes an issue, you would get slower rendering over multiple frames, and you will really see it, not intermittent stutters/hitches. That's why, on PC, we have graphics quality settings to lower the VRAM and bandwidth load. Note that lowering settings in TSW doesn't eliminate the stutters/hitches; conversely having a super powerful GPU doesn't, either.
     
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  24. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    The stutters/hitches absolutely could be resolved, but it might take a heck of a lot of work (especially if they are doing almost everything in blueprints) – but it definitely doesn't require yet another iteration of the franchise to implement. I would really like to see it get the optimisation it deserves, and to see that work patched into TSW3 as it should be.
     
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  25. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I would instantly believe that there is gigantic room for code improvements that DTG will not do
     
  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’ve tried running everything on lowest setting on a 2080ti and i9 and it still stutters so in a lot on instances I dare say you can rule out peoples system
     
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  27. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. My brother's suppositions are spot on: Stutters are caused by too much running on the same thread as the renderer = optimisable with multi-threading; and hitching due to garbage collection = could hide with optimisation.

    I won't say "simple", but totally achievable.
     
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  28. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Given that there are games with Unreal engine that don't stutter, the issue is with TSW.
     
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  29. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you
    We know that since tsw 1...
     
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  30. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't seem so, based on the comments above.
     
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  31. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    What an extremely useful comment on the topic...


    -----



    So this stuttering and hitching has returned for me as well. When the core game (just TSW3) came out, it was actually rather smooth.
    The "updates" and preserved routes released and so began the crap performance. It was night a day difference.
    Ive yet to test with the preserved routes uninstalled but I get the feeling the smoothness wont be there again.

    Really wish theyd iron this out, smoothness and frames are paramount as they are in sim racing and flight sim.

    It'd be somewhat helpful if ppl with issues posted specs

    I.e. im on

    Windows 11 insider build (yes i know...)
    Ryzen 6700xt 12gb vram
    Ryzen 5800x @ 3.8 plus boost to 4.4
    32gb ddr5 @ 3200
    Installed on m2 SSD


    I get these stutters that are fairly random but usually within seconds of each other all while metrics are open and show ZERO hardware issues
     
  32. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    If you were running a detailed CPU monitor on the source code (which we can't do, obviously), you would no doubt see spikes on the main thread graph where processes are conflicting/overloading it.

    Hardware is almost irrelevant when it comes to these stutters. It's time for them to do multi-thread optimisation, to move load off the main thread, away from the renderer.
     
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  33. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    hello again, after getting the update and testing i had to say DTG delivered in fixing the issue ( At least on the route i tested more to come later )

    remember my first screenshot
    initial release of the game
    [​IMG]

    After the latest update ( 29 sept i think was )

    [​IMG]

    so to the others that had the same issue as me, how is your experience after the update?
     
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  34. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I did not see anything in the patch notes about performance.
     
  35. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    because is something internal of the engine that i presumably was bad configured or something

    game runs sames as was running tsw2 which is fantastic
     
  36. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    But why would they not mention it in patch notes?
    Makes no sense
     
  37. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    idk, i just tested the initial release of the game from my backup and it have the same issue as was describing in the first post

    Re-restored this backup with the latest patch and the game runs perfect, clearly something under the hood was touched and now it runs as good as was running tsw2, and i tested all the routes and trains and is butter silk smooth ( apart of the loading tile )

    DTG JD may i ask if the devs did something regarding of this issue? because this patch fixed the issue and a change as big as this one i think it should be mentioned in the changelog
     
  38. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It could be due to different time of day or just cuz it happened. There are times where I get better performance than usual sometimes. Sometimes bad performance
     
  39. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    check both screenshot first page and the last one you quote me, is the same service at the same time
     
  40. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Still, most likely something with your pc as long as DTG don't announce performance fixes for last patch
     
  41. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    bro is not my pc, March Hare in the thread i linked was spot-on on what caused the issue that many ppl including me was suffering, and looks like DTG did the necessary changes in the thread pipeline that was causing the bottleneck on unreal engine

    and saying "iS soMeThiNg iN YoUr Pc" means you didn't read none of this thread or the one i linked
    so please for the love of gaming stop using this phrase
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  42. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Even with higher gpu usage and no matter what spec you have, there is still massive amounts of stuttering. You might get higher frames and more gpu usage like your picture you posted said, but stutters are still there. And unless dtg put it in the patch notes, I wouldn't believe they did anything
     
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  43. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    my CPU never gets above 12%. It's capped at 62fps
    Untitled.png
     
  44. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    i dont have any more stuttering apart of the tile loading, i'm tired of chatting with ppl who doesnt seems to understand the problem, the game is fixed for me after the first patch, end of the story for me

    if a mod please could close this thread already
    thanks,cya around
     
  45. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    So you are really saying to all of us that you do not have any stuttering anymore in the game ?
    Ok please record 5 min on Kassel and let us see.

    Massive Stuttering is the only reason I don't buy TsW3 because DTG doesn't hear us since TSW 2020... And is just focus on making half finished DLCs
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
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  46. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's better performance for him but it doesn't mean it's better for all of us. It's better to not talk to him before things get heated up.
     
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  47. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I just cannot believe on this LOVE.
    ALL YouTubers and DTG themselves by railfan have massive stuttering on the videos. So funny.
    And sure we never have a reply on the dev team
     
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  48. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    sorry but i dont record any gameplay and i dont want to waste time on something that with 2 screenshots is more that enough that the game FOR ME is working properly AFTER the FIRST PATCH
    if you want to cry as i did, go and create your own thread and explain in detail what is going on in your end as i did

    and i understand you, been on TS since railworks back in 2009 and been a constant battle with DTG over game optimization etc etc, but we know how they are a bit greedy and where they are pointing the arrow ( DLC's > optimization )

    nothing else to said, i'm sorry that for you still runs pretty bad and i was in your place till not long ago ( before this thread )
    for now is what we got and we have to love or hate / play or not play TS


    exactly i was having big issues in TSW3, as i stated in the first post, TSW2 was running perfect, jumped to TSW3 on launch day and the problem was massive till i did this thread and got the attention of DTG staff

    is not "dont talk to him before thing get heated up" i dont like ppl who doesn't believe what i say even when there is proof that for me the issue is resolved, i dont gain anything by lying here, is the contrary i want to help as much as i can since all my F life been struggling with Pc hardware till a few months ago and i really hate when a game runs like garbage even with recommended or beyond recommended requirements and TSc/TSW2k/TSW2/TSW3 was not the exception,

    imagine, living in a 3rd world country 90% tax over any pc harware, been saving for a couple of years, got the new pc, all my games run like a dream, fire up TSW3 and runs like in the first screenshot, of course would tantrum, payed big money for this pc and the game that i most play runs pretty bad =/

    anyways, sorry if i sounded pissed off, i wasn't, i want, AS ALL OF US that TSW runs as we want perfect smooth silky framerate

    they all have stop streaming TSW3 and complain in the forum till they put real work on the core engine that is really needed
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  49. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I'm glad your experience has improved, OP.

    We are continually working on optimisation, and glad the latest update has positively impacted you (I'll investigate our end to see if there was some magic potion sprinkled somewhere).

    It looks like things are getting heated, so just a quick reminder to be polite and respectful.
     
  50. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    DTG JD

    What kind of optimization are you working on?

    Will the stuttering finally be improved?
     

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