Alan Thomson Simulations - An Odd Choice

Absolutely correct.

james64 - I totally agree, it’s bizarre.

- ‘There aren’t enough third parties!’
- ‘Ewwww. That’s not the 3rd party I wanted’

Be happy more developers are getting board. ATS is a good one, rejoice in that fact!

ps For anyone not paying attention AT’s YouTube output significantly decreased after ATS starting producing Payware to the point it is now, which is a dwindling trickle. He releases not much more than 1 video every 3-4 months at most.

 

Didn't "forget it" and the route is a route, the point is more whether its a good representation of the route in real life, especially given it's local to me, and that's what a lot of people say about this game. GENERALLY it's OK and enjoyable unless you get down to minutiae in which case things start to fall down
Does it sotp me playing it? No

The same will be true of ATS DLC. Yes he's had a go at the game over time (who hasn't?) but that shouldn't preclude him and his company(?) making DLC for TSW.

 

What would you prefer? Alan saying what he thinks, what is his honest opinion? Or would you like him to say everything is great? I know which I prefer. If a product needs improvement then surely even the developer would appreciate that feedback.

 

Please, Alan wasnt dissing TSW for any other reason other then he saw the growth of TSW and the possible demise of TSC as a threat to his lucrative business model.

 

I don't see what this issue is here? If you don't like him and/or his products, then simply don't buy it.

Whilst I may not agree 100% on his business strategies, he does produce some fantastic routes. Also, remember that TSW is much more controlled by DTG themselves, so stuff like asset packs and the other 999 requirements won't be a thing in TSW, as it'll come part of the route by standard.

 

I guess all eyes on his twitch channel then, he is due for a stream any day now (every 3/4 on average):

https://m.twitch.tv/alanthomsonsim

The climb down could be epic.

A shroud move would be to ignore the past from Alan. Would not be at all surprised if he is very bullish on the next stream.. very much "go team!"

However, I cannot wait until he gets his 8th gen dev build in the post with a little sticky from DTG:

"OK then Alan make your wcml work on this base ps4 from 2014, no pc mods .... get back to us in 4 weeks"

 

I’m confused. What is this ‘climb down’ you talk of? Climb down from what?

 

Okay let's replace climb down with balance beam.

Alan is very very PC focused. He now has to develop a product that can work on xbox (both gens), playstation (both gens), ....

He now has to be appealing to those buyers, whilst still keeping his fan base loyal, a fan base of pc players who expect a very high quality product that can be highly modded and use various dependencies. Those mods and folder structures do not exist on console, hence why how he addresses his new base will be interesting.

Take jasper at rivet, he is a very good operator as he has never been openly cricitical of the impact of consoles on this game. Now some of you don't like jasper, but one thing you cannot knock him for is he plays the game with a very straight bat

 

One thing I will say about ATS they do release some absolutely top class products for TS on PC. If this can be replicated across 9 different platforms it will be great.

I do wonder if DTG will advise Alan to do his streams sober hence forth, after all most of the DTG bashing and TSW bashing came when he was a good 5 pints down. I'm thinking of one where he did a TSW WSR review a bit worse for wear (that one was on youtube rather than twitch).

Anyhow, good feedback so far everyone, reading everyone's comments for the most part ATS seem to have 90% backing from the community at present (at least here in PC)

 

This is a weird thread.

 

First rule of good business is never publicly slate your competition. ATS has constantly slated their competition.

 

Agreed red. However let's give the guy a fair crack and see what he can do

 

He'd need to produce some really excellent content and I'd need assurances from DTG and ATS that any DLC isn't going to be subject to requiring taking out a sub with ATS before I'd even consider giving the guy a chance personally

 

I know what you mean. I do prefer to own my tsw dlc rather than lease it (ATS) current format (or subscription).

I doubt he will be able to keep the sub/lease model going whilst under the dtg banner, it will be a set price.

Curve ball might be his dlc retail at £39.99 a head, now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons

 

I cant see him charging that much for DLC there is no way people would pay that for DLC for TSW 3. I reckon he will keep it at current price and he will have his TSW 3 content sold on steam and possibly on his own website. His TSC conent will carry on the way it is. Lets not forget he has 0 content for TSW 3 on his website only TSC which is what has made him grow to this day.

He is a partner for TSW 3 the roadmap did not mention TSC which are 2 different franchises under DTG.

 

I'd personally pay that if the quality is there.

 

There isn’t a single bit of payware ATS have done that has required you to have a subscription with their site. Their model for TSC is very different to the way TSW is set up, isn’t that obvious? I’m 100% certain that all 3rd party content will be sold in exactly the same way it has been to this point. Why would it change?

As I said, this is a very odd thread with some pretty out there opinions, a lot of which don’t seem to be based in fact. I’m really struggling to see what the problem is…if you like it buy it, if you don’t then don’t.

I’m absolutely confident they will produce very good content, just like they have done in the past. Remember, it is down to the guys at ATS and them alone that you can drive the whole of the WCML & ECML in TSC. If they could even get close to repeating the feat in TSW I’ve no doubt all the naysayers will be falling over themselves to say how great it is. If they start by bringing over the payware routes they’ve made for TSC I’d be a happy bunny.

DTG are making the right noises again, there is visible progress with the game (although still far too glacial for me) and there are some big names in content production getting involved. As one who fires a fare amount of criticism at this game (largely warranted, but that’s my opinion) this is a time that should be giving players cause for cautious optimism. I’m not entirely sure why that isn’t the case, particularly where ATS is concerned.

 

Let’s look at this way. We can have ATS join the TSW partnership create content and release it for the community. OR we can have DTG not accept 3rd party developers who then won’t create content and we end up with fewer routes,trains assets ETC

People complain about lack of releases. Only way to speed that up is to allow 3rd party in to help with things.

certainly an interesting time ahead for TSW 3 and hopefully now things can start moving up a notch at a faster pace.

 

These forums thrive on controversy and wild surmise.
It's great news, so let's create some excitement.

 

Some of the community’s response to third party devs is odd.

Rivet - not getting a penny
Skyhook - not a chance
ATS - over my dead body - and they haven’t even started yet
TSG - all bow down and praise the almighty

It’s as if they don’t want anyone else joining in unless they make the very best content available and say nice things about DTG on the internet. There must be more than just one guy who is allowed to release content without a huge outpouring of dismay, we can’t survive on one shunter forever.

I know, I know, the others must improve but they have produced both good and bad content, they aren’t as rotten as some make out.

 

As I find this hole thread very interesting but haven't got a clue what its all about (I do not own a PC (sadly) therefore I can't play TSC with all their great add ons/DLC (sadly), I did go to YT and checked out some of AT's Videos and Reviews.

I have to say I couldn't see a problem, especially why he shouldnt join the TSW franchise with his products. Yes he was very critical of some of DTGs products but I haven't seen him one time saying something unfair. There was/is a lot to be critic about it and seeing some of the stuff out their I'm even more convinced in this. Some of the trains are just superbly. When we get some Trains/Route that are near that quality, it means DTG has to up their game and this only can means positive for us all.

 

No issue with rivet or SHG. What I've an issue is toxic unprofessional developers joining the program.

ATS is both of the above iMO

ATS has the potential to do more harm then good IMO

 

I’ve seen some of his content and credit to his team, they produce good stuff. Personally, I just don’t like how the bloke comes across. Rightly or wrongly, he has VERY harsh criticism towards DTG products, I only hope he holds his own team to the same standards he expects of others. Will be interesting to see what he produces, I look forward to seeing ECML, can’t guarantee that il buy his products, maybe wait for a sale for his content, regardless of the quality of his content. Hopefully he can help with the merging of routes etc, his team will have valuable experience that can only help TSW, just a shame about the name on the cover. Haven’t paid for any TSW3 material yet or put my hands on TSW2 in months.
Whatever happened to the long awaited timetable update of Joethefish on London > Reading???

 

why isn't Alan entitled to his own opinion? I don't really know the guy, seen him a few times and comes across to me as he knows what he is talking about and usually gives reasons to why he is critical.

And 'ambassadors'. One in particular made me laugh when he described Chatham as a 'DUMP'. It is a deprived area apparently.

So some people are entitled to their opinion and Alan is not?

Sorry I don't get your meaning? Are you say if you don't criticise the game you are playing with a 'straight bat' and if you criticise the game you are dishonest?

I'm know expert on AT but have known of him for a long while and catch the odd video he has done. I remember him doing a TSW2 video (can't remember which) he was saying things like 'I'm impressed' he liked it, why is this not being acknowledged? Yes I have also seen video's of him criticising TSW2, so what? It needs criticising otherwise it will not get improved.

I saw a TSC video he done which I think he is involved in producing and he was honest in that review, He pointed out things he liked and didn't like. Frankly we need more people like Alan in TSW. Wouldn't you rather people that saw both the bad and good in the game rather than more ex EA staff for example? I hope he doesn't change. Sam is allowed to sort of criticise TSW and I hope Alan is as well.

Other than the software side he also brings to the table hardware. Yes it is on the expensive side but that could be a real plus for DTG. Even if they could sort the software side out. As DTG has more or less forgotten about the RailDriver, it is a mess at the moment. I would say give the guy a break and see what he does for TSW3, good or bad I'm sure plenty here will let him know.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however it is unprofessional to criticise your competitors publicly.

 

But don't firms do that all the time? Supermarkets for instance? I don't think he was criticising for the hell of it, I would agree if he was. No doubt at some times he piled it on thick but usually he gave reasons no? And he has praised DTG for TSW2 and 3 at times as well when he found positive things.

Not everyone will agree I know but I'd rather someone pointing out the flaws than getting fobbed off all the time.

 

When do supermarkets do that? I mean yeah musk openly criticises his competition and Trump does as well. But who really wants to get into business with those guys?

 

Well I guess TSW has progressed enough that third party developer's want to get in on It and is financial for them. ATS also has a big following on Facebook and twitch and there website. As they can't just develop content on PC it will be interesting to see what there first route will be. It will also add to there extensive portfolio of routes. I think this is great as more UK content would get developed.

 

How is ats toxic all he has done is give really good constructive criticism when dtg f up

 

Reviewing a product lol
Tom/mark from jt has done it loads literally slated dtg if the release of an product was crap take wcml for instance

 

Why is there two pages worth of posts of people talking about a third party dev who hasn't even done anything for tsw yet. It's great to have more 3rd party devs and more content. Imagine if we had none. I don't know who the dev is and I simply do not care about his past or whatever. Why are we already talking **** about him. There's no point arguing/fighting over all this cuz it's unprofessional. Definitely don't want this to get real nasty and then have to deal with the consequences. Let ats release his content and then if his product is poor, then y'all can give him constructive criticism. No need to get all mean and be at each other's throats and all. Just my 2 cents.

 

While I can't say anything about supermarkets, I can think of a major example of a video game company trashing a competitor, SEGA! Their marketing was focused heavily on dissing the Super Nintendo as a kids toy. There's plenty of uploads on YouTube of those ads, here's a compilation as an example, the first half's got quite a few of them.

 

I don't think that's entirely fair. Skyhook and Rivet are not being bashed so much because they're not on a TSG level. They get the short end of the stick because they've released stuff that makes DTG's worst releases look like masterpieces. Must I mention the Br 204 and 187 again?

Personally speaking, I'm always thrilled to see another 3rd party join the team and will also give anything Rivet and Skyhook put out a fair chance, though they will have an uphill battle with me just because I've been burnt before.

 

I think this thread should be closed now. It’s going nowhere and is pretty pointless. Mods, do you thing.

 

I’m inclined to agree. As much as I have reservations about the ATS business model for TSC and haven’t touched his/their stuff, only fair to give his team a chance and see what they can come up with before slam dunking them.

 

When has he done that? Which competitors are you talking about?

 

He's live now fyi. His first video post announcement:

https://m.twitch.tv/alanthomsonsim

Missed the start but I would imagine it will be uploaded post broadcast

 

Supermarkets are always comparing prices and saying how better it is to shop in their supermarket. That is a form of trash talk only more subtle. IMO AT is pointing out the flaws but it might be worth waiting to see what he produces first.

Let's say he brings out a brilliant route for TSW3 would you buy it?

 

Having read through this thread all I can really say is that it can be in the developers' best interests to recruit their harshest critics.

For me, I see an opportunity for new content for us to play with, and for DTG I see an opportunity to learn from what AT can do with the game and collaborate closely on future projects, while for AT, well it's simply good business practice to diversify your income streams.

It's a win, win, win in my books.

 

Credit to him just bubbling away tonight on stream, a few tsw3 mentions trickling through, the chat box is trying to tempt him out with route merger comments etc...

A good watch so far


(Has given away nothing so far, albeit I missed the start)

 

You are clutching at straws there, price comparisons is completely different to openly criticising your competitors.

 

In the same way that I avoid Warburtons bread (on political grounds as I disagree on which party they fund), but if its the only loaf on the shelf I'll reluctantly buy it rather than do without. If ATS released a route which I really wanted and there was no other version available, then yes I would.

 

A couple of years ago - in an ad campaign launched during the Super Bowl, so hardly discreet - Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser) openly threw shade at Miller-Coors for using corn syrup in its beer (or rather, "beer").

 

Well, I don't know much about UK advertising but, here in the US, criticizing your competitors is a common theme. Telecom companies, consumer products manufacturers and others frequently engage in this practice.

Of course, the worst ( and most hilarious ) practitioners are political candidates, and we are inundated with these ads right now in the run-up to 11/8.

 

Perhaps its just a UK cultural thing then, do agree politicians do it all the time and it irritates me greatly. I always believe that if a candidate prefers attacking someone elses policies and manifesto then it says they have zero policies themselves.

 

Ats have always reviewed and given really good feedback and pointed out the flaws where is the negative in that

 

LEts give ATS a chance at the end of the day Alan has said himself at the start of his latest stream " we are putting our money where our mouth is" Give him credit for at least taking the chance to produce content he has proved him and his team can do some fantastic work for TSC lets hope that carrys onto TSW 3 at the end of the day it is for the benefit of us the userbase

 

What an embarrassment this thread it. ATS join TSW to help create more content for us and some people see it as a negative. If you don't like their content for x, y & z reasons, fine. Don't buy them, but to not buy them because Alan has an opinion then you need to give your heads a wobble. Get a grip and be excited that we're going to see more dlc's.

This forum at times is a cesspit of overentitled know-it-all's who think they know better yet don't do anything about it.

 

I can give you an almost endless list of everything I hate in TSW, and I think TSW for my personal taste isn't focussed enough on full realism and focuses too much on thing I quite frankly don't care about. I still think it's a great platform and we've seen how good this sim can be with projects like the BR101, if I had the skills and tools to produce something myself I'd take the opportunity in a heartbeat. Disliking some of DTG's choices and products, and not being the biggest fan of the game doesn't mean you don't like DTG themselves (as a company) or think this game has no potential or that it needs to fail or something. I wish people didn't reason in this black/white fashion.