Do We Really Need Another Open Letter To Dtg? Number 4 Or 5? Come On Team Dtg?

I'm posting this here having come from a good experience of this game on TSW2 to something being really off in this game. I'm hoping this along with previous mention gets picked up, and some form of dialect from DTG goes out.

Since (using this term very loosely now) upgrading to TSW3 on the premise it should run similar I have no idea what the heck is going on.

For context, I have an i9-10900, a 2080ti, 32gb ram, a 1440p ultrawide and I have locked my FPS at 65. I have a screen % of 110% and sky quality at high.

On some routes I will gladly get 65fps all day long and others are a juddery, stuttering mess.

• Playing some of the old german routes with a splash of rain I'm seeing 25fps in rural areas with a gpu usage of 60odd%
• Constant stuttering on routes that i never had issue with before. I had a service on BML earlier and it kept dropping to 25FPS
• Somerthing is a miss with the draw distance. I'm 100m away from a platform on BML and then the painted platform edge pops in alongside all the shadows.
• The trees look low res and are popping in constantly
• Large blocks of shadow are popping in
• Trains are low texture at times
• I've played East Coastway and been stood beside low res buildings that have become high res as i've left the platform.
• I was going to say draw distance seems worse but I changed it on TSW2 and it ran all day long at 60fps with (but with less) stutters.

I'm trying to constantly play with settings on a route by route basis to get some sort of consistency and I've no idea how to. It's like the route goes from being on a high end pc to a potato randomly.

I've seen posts to say drop sky quality, drop this, drop that,., why? It still stutters. It still at the moment looks worse than the last one.

I had just shy of 1600 hours in TSW2 and to be honest with this one at the moment (yers you have my cash, but unlikely to get many more dlc cash) until something gives.

Seriously, what the hell has happened to meet this "runs almost the same as the last one" line when people queried specs before. It does not run the same as the last one.

I'm feeling really disappointed some of this LOVE is still going on. Incidentally when researching the stutter people were still feeding it back in TSW2020. Where is the focus on sorting it? Is it in the "not being worked on " cabinet next to VR and multiplayuer.

I like to be jovial, enjoy the game and the community knowledge, banter and engagement but I just feel bloody annoyed about mucking about trying to get a good experience every time I play.

I love what the game stands for and offers but come on DTG, please sort this lark out once and for all. Do we really all need to have a £7k pc, a 7090 graphics card and i37 - 50900k to get 30fps constant now?

Royally narked with this at the moment and it never normally rattles me. Anyone else want to share their woes (again)?

 

I haven't got the hours invested to know too much about the down & dirty of it, I've only played occasionally since 2020, and never had TSW2; but I have noticed a lot of odd stuff happening and non-functioning or broken functionality. Things that I could do before the "upgrade" to TSW3 but can no longer do or do with difficultly. I agree some clean up and attention to detail needs to be undertaken. Perhaps being more important than releasing new routes and locos. They won't be very enjoyable and make no sense to purchase if the glitches are not dealt with to make them work properly.

 

Mate, I am really not going to criticise here as I can appreciate it must be a mighty ballache to have to keep changing your .ini files but also spare a thought for those of us on console who cannot do this and are seeing loco-less trains, stations popping in, missing wagons mid train and phantom puffs of smoke where there should be a jubilee. It’s currently a fricking mess on all platforms!

 

I tried it on my Xbox too and agree it was a shower there too and in places clunky as hell

 

yup, I noticed significant drops in performance in some routes. Was doing dra this morning and fps constantly went down to single digits, lots of freezes and stutters and then I got derailed. I haven't really played much in the other routes but there is much lower performance than tsw2 on the routes I have played

 

The propulsion sounds on the LIRR M7 still cut out in the rear 4, 6, and/or 8 cars of the train despite them saying they fixed that issue.

I had an issue with the MP15 DC when I would do part 2 of southbound freight service on Peninsula Corridor where I would be coupled to the cars, but when I try to accelerate, the train won't move at all. When I decoupled and accelerated, the mp15 would accelerate but when coupled, I couldn't move so the service is unplayable

 

I share the disappointment. And its not only that the performance is horrendous, but its also looks painfully bad. I also had ~1500h in tsw2 and also had every released content for it, but with this one I really feel scammed. They also had the nerve to release a loko reskin bundle for 6 eur each. Not a penny from me anymore.
Who cares I guess, I just had to write out my frustration. Thanks

 

A big optimisation or performance improvements is needed for TSW for sure.

 

I just can’t seem to put my finger on what’s off with it. For example in TSW2 window side scenery as you drove seemed to pass smoothly however on this it seems to PowerPoint it’s way past. It feels like there’s been some sort of optimisation sweep of things you may not immediately notice but subconsciously something doesn’t feel quite right

 

The simple answer is the .PAK files.
Here's a file size example of Rhein-Ruhr Osten - Wuppertal - Hagen Route Add-On from:
TSW2020 - https://steamdb.info/depot/1010137/ and
TSW3 - https://steamdb.info/depot/1998874/

Now my theory of why far more compression was added is because DTG knew about the DLC file size limits on a certain console. How many routes at +13GB compared with +4GB would now be accessible?

So now we have new routes with around 3 times the file size compression. Ask yourself what happens when you need to access a file with more compression? Well, we now have a need for increased memory use (temp extraction), more CPU usage (more compression equals more number crunching) and the BIG ONE, more time accessing a storage drive (either mechanical or SSD).

The other downside is that every time an update comes around and your routes (.PAK) files are patched, this causes fragmentation. If you're running TSW3 from a mechanical HDD, you could try a full defrag after an update and see if it helps with stutters, loading times, etc. For SSD users, unless you perform a format and clean install, then it will only get slower. If you search the forums, I made a few posts about changing 'Virtual memory (paging file)' sizes to help with stuttering.

 

chieflongshin

What sort of performance/gpu usage do you get with scaling at 200% ?

 

I’ve never bothered for a while as it drops it to 25fps and I can’t stand the judder

 

Couple of corrections: Smaller file size means less time accessing the disk, not more; and while fragmentation will affect performance on physical platter drives when it gets bad enough, it's a non-issue on SSDs due to the lack of physical moving parts that create latency. In fact, defragmentating an SSD simply means performing extra writes, which will shorten the drive's life by that much.

 

It has got worse since TSW3, pauses and judders even on routes that didn't really do it previously.

Sorry to say but DTG rushed to push the new version out when what they should be doing is a forensic code examination of why their game is so poorly optimised and often performs abysmally, UE issue notwithstanding. My PC is a potato so not expecting to run everything at max but when titles like Snowrunner can run without pause or stuttering then something is seriously wrong. At times TSW3 runs more like a half baked home brew Unity effort than the product of a professional software house.

Just wondered if anyone has tried their fishing games, which were the test bed for using UE4, see if they suffer the same problems?

 

I believe the main thrust was to say that even if the physical file sizes are smaller, this is because they're more compressed, so smaller file sizes in this instance may solve one problem (storage size) but will create others in that CPU and memory processes are taken up messing about decomping files rather than doing what the end user wants

 

I’m deeply deeply disappointed with the effort put into Peninsula Corridor. Definitely one of my favourite routes, but since TSW 2020 the locomotive sounds are a mere shadow of their former selves. Now, since the Preservation Crew got their hands on it, the timetable is horrifically messed up, scenarios are causing crashes and there is still very close scenery pop in which just ruins immersion and not all crossings work. The Preservation Crew has made some nice improvements such as the water in the bay and the road bridge that no longer pops In extremely late, but these improvements are lost in the mess that remains.

I am truly exasperated!!!

 

I actually voted this as my most played US route in a thread a few days ago. Think that needs to be reconsidered, not due to the route or its attendant DLC per se, but due to DTG's inability to sort out the problems (or they simply don't give a fig).

 

I hope for a brand new UE5' TSW. No more preservation, open letters or fancy promisses. It is time to go on, into the future.

 

@4k I can run at 125% and get around 40-60 fps. Gpu usage never goes beyond 80%
@1080 running at 200% 1080 res being more cpu dependant gpu usage is 99%.

The game runs better at 1080 with 99% gpu usage than it does @4k with 80% gpu usage.

Putting aside dtg's poor optimisation I think you need to find the sweet spot where your gpu is being fully utilised.

I notice that having the scaling under 200% severely reduces the quality of everything.
Yesterday playing on a 4k display with 125% scaling, draw distance was reduced on everything, text on trackside signage is just a blur until you are literally standing infront of them, trains popping into veiw like some magic trick, signals look hexagonal until close, same with tunnels and bridges and tracks, everytime I approached a set of points they wasn't there then popped into veiw when very close.

Then changing to a 1080 display and 200% scaling most of them problems are gone!

The only settings I changed was scaling. Between the 2 resolution all other setting are ultra, apart from sky quality on very high.

Dtg have cocked something right up in the graphics department and I really don't think we are gonna see a fix anytime soon.

 

Not sure UE5 will be a magic bullet without some effort on DTG’s part now to optimise the way the game runs. I’ve read posts from people using all platforms for whom TSW suffers from various performance issues. If nothing is done to make it run better with UE4, all those bottlenecks and inefficiencies will be migrated straight over to UE5 and back to square one.

 

UE5 as well as mistakenly seen as the cure because its new. DTG have openly said nothing is being made for it yet (was trying to find forum post). Prevention is better than cure.

 

But this is waste of time trying to find a cure for all these ancient problems over and over again. It is about new possibilities.

 

1XX FPS

 

Dtg need to scrap the whole game and start again from scratch. That's the only way the stuttering might ever get fixed! The same stuttering that's present in tsc.

 

I feel like that update for peninsula corridor was rushed. Then DTG wonder why some don't think they actually test things

 

I don't think that's going to result in a better game if you look at it more realistically

 

Are you?

 

This is why I didn't upgrade to TSW3. It seems like the existing DLC perform far worse than before.

I wish they'd simply stop "patching" existing things that worked, e.g. BML and Peninsula Corridor. Both of those now work worse than before. (The GWE services can't be completed on the former and there are large amounts of game-breaking bugs in the latter.)

If you're going to make a "new" game that makes everything worse, can you at least leave our existing content well enough alone? Things work ok, but then BAM! An "update" comes down the pipe and things get worse. And can you allow us to continue using the "older" systems, which work better with the existing DLC, to acquire new DLC?

Here's what I don't understand. If TSW3 makes all the older content perform far worse than it did in TSW2, who will buy the older content? They're forced to use it in TSW3. DTG would make more money if they sold it under the old title. There are a couple of older DLC that I won't buy now since I know they'll perform bad on TSW3. I would buy them if I could play them on TSW2.

Maybe continue selling TSW2 content for TSW2, and then make all new content available only for TSW3.

 

chieflongshin: By any chance, was dynamic weather enabled when you noticed the older routes performing worse than before?

 

I think it was yea as I never tend to bother mucking about with the weather . I just play "rain (journey)" mode if I want that

 

I am very very serious. The preserved luggage is an emergency application for this title.

... I have 90% of the DLCs and would be happy to say goodbye to them for the sake of (r)evolution

 

I'm starting to think, well have done for a while actually, that DTG is a company that lives for the moment. As I previously alluded to, they hype the new releases, get 90% of the target sales in the first few weeks, then it is quietly forgotten about. Never mind that having a back catalogue of interesting and reliable content is key to a successful product - seems they always make enough on these projected sales targets despite the past sins and people still keep coming back for more, despite the crushing disappointment.

Rivet are doing exactly the same, and I mention them because DTG should still have oversight selling the content through their outlet, WCL as a route having none of the quality issues addressed, the 150 got a few tweaks but is still largely broken, the Bakerloo 1938 stock never did get its sounds sorted - yet they are forging full on ahead with whatever this new TSW3 route is.

Problem is we do keep coming back because there's not really a viable alternative. TSC is another DTG product anyway and while it has some excellent content, having a route with half a dozen scenarios is no comparison to the all day timetable. Trainz is rubbish when it comes the driving experience, Derail Valley once you've been round the map a few times it gets stale. OR/MSTS just looks dated - etc. etc.

 

I wonder if keeping the weather in static mode would have any impact on performance. I don't have TSW3 myself, so I can't run my own tests. I'd like to think that a solution were that simple.

 

Oh, what a tale of woe!

And, of course, much of it justifiably so. I'm still waiting for Rush Hour passengers on BML, signal fixes on BPE and banking com on the CRR and CJP F7's.

None of these will ever come to pass, of course, but, hey, we got save game back, miracles do happen.

Actually it's not all bad news. I'm spending almost all of my time on CJP and SPG and thoroughly enjoying myself.

Despite its shortcomings, I think CJP is the best US route since, you guessed it, Sand Patch Grade. I could drive those big Gevo's all day ( and sometimes you have to to get where you're going ).

And SPG still looks so good to me, even better in TSW3, because, along with the weather, I think some new lighting snuck in there somehow. ( alright, I know it's an illusion. )

I'm not driving much else, truth be told, except an occasional foray into BML and BPE. I seem to be losing interest in most of the older TSW2 routes. They're not going to get any better. And as for SOS - boy oh boy was I looking forward to that. But it turned out to be a one off damp squib.

So, as breblimator suggests, I think I've moved on.

Though not from Sand Patch, no sir, it's still the jewel in the crown. Along with Cajon Pass, maybe the only jewels in this particular crown.

 

When DTG put out a statement a few months ago saying 'they were taking a break' to concentrate on fixing the errors in TSW2 I think most on the forums were behind that with some thinking 'At last!' Only for DTG to come out with TSW3. And this has divided opinion somewhat although going by this thread opinions are starting to merge again.

For me there should not have been a TSW3 and because there is suggests to me that DTG came across a bug in TSW2 that they cannot fix so they rushed out TSW3 to cover their tracks. Remember TSW3 is still TSW2 just with addon's and DTG have stated that TSW3 will still play as TSW2.

I remember saying 'Ah I'll wait for TSW4' for a joke intending to pick up TSW3 in a sale but the way DTG is acting I'm seriously thinking of waiting for TSW4. I could not understand why there is no option to buy TSW3 without any routes just as an upgrade? I'm not interested in any of the routes they are offering so why bother?

DTG have to start seriously fixing these bugs, errors and glitches it is frustrating. Look at the indie developers on steam some only one guy and they manage to release regular patches for free that work so what is DTG's excuse? We are still waiting for fixes that are a couple of years old. IMO we won't see fixes for TSW2/TSW3 because DTG cannot fix it so the only way we will see a genuine better performing game is with something like TSW4 that will use UE5 as they will start from scratch, if they attempt to bring over TSW3 into TSW4 the cycle of bugs and errors will continue.

 

It might if they start from the ground up. New game engine, no recycling anything.

Unreal engine was an odd choice considering the constant stuttering that would have been present in development.
Maybe there was reassurances the stuttering would be ironed out. 4 years later its clear its not going to be ironed out.

 

The game (as CSX:HH) was officially released in March 2017, but was available in beta form in December 2016 if I recall. So let’s say 6 years later! Of course development started a couple of years before that, but apparently UE4 was the best (game engine) of a bad bunch.

 

Why bother? Well, if any new dlc comes along that piques your interest in the next year or two, you'll have to buy some version of TSW3 to enable it to work.

 

Ue4 also has the blueprints feature which dtg loves to use for timetables and simugraph and stuff so they aren't trying to find something in thousands of lines of code lol. Don't know if other engines have the blueprints feature. If dtg actually put the time and effort into it, then we might not have all the issues that are there today. There are many ue4 games and older that run much smoother than tsw and with fewer bugs

 

Just to add my experience to the mix, on Series S I am constantly seeing freight wagons "pop" into view. Once I could not see anything in my consist at all behind my locos, until I moved the free camera towards the back of the train. I have seen loads suspended in air on invisible flat cars, traveling through the air, and static wagons pop up out of nowhere as I was passing by.

At first I had assumed that it was just a Series S problem, and just for the "new" TSW3 routes. Then I heard from everyone else. And just today, while using the external camera on NEC-BP, I saw some more freight wagons pop into view, which has never happened at all in TSW2. The older routes were supposed to perform in TSW3 just as they had in TSW2, but this is not the case.

I also suspect that this is why custom liveries are not enabled on CJP: the route probably can't handle them, in much the way that rush hour passenger volumes never got implemented on LBN. Kudos to DTG for returning the save feature; that was pretty important to me and has made CJP much more playable. For me, any future DLC purchases will have to be balanced by the state of the game improving from where it is now.

 

With my rig running at 1920x1080 with everything maxed I would run generally in the 60s-70s-80s-90s fps-wise (with my fps limited to 100) in TSW2 out on the main lines. Some areas like big yards and stations would cause some hits into the 50s, 40s and maybe 30s but they were fewer and far between.

I run TSW3 the same with everything maxed but Sky which I have knocked back to High. I find the TSW2 routes seem to run pretty much the same but the four TSW3 routes are more inconsistent. SEHS seems to run quite well with the exception of a few spots. Same with SoS which seems ok out on the main lines though the big yards are total framerate annihilators, they smack me down into the mid 20s.

Cajon Pass and Kassel-Wurzburg seem more problematic. Sometimes they run fairly well but I'm often mired in the 30s-40s-50s and when you get into the lower end of that range your mouse movement is not smooth. Don't know what causes the slowdowns but its disappointing. I have noticed winter services often seem to perform worse but not always.

I replayed the Cajon Pass scenario Through Fire and Flames a couple of times to complete the mastery challenge and this scenario runs great. There is the usual slowdown in San Bernardino yard itself but once you clear its immediate environs it runs like a TSW2 route. I noticed the last time I played it that there is basically no rolling stock or trains from the summit to Barstow, nothing in any of the yards or sidings. Could it be with these larger routes all the decorative rolling stock and AI trains operating on them in timetable mode are gobbling up resources?

DW

 

At current I am kinda leaning this way myself. I'd be a bit gun-shy about popping on a new TSW3 route, though I might buy more of the TSW Compatible stuff.

DW

 

Like you, I've had over 600 hours on TSW2020 and over 1600 hours on TSW2, not to mention the hundreds of dollars spent on DLC. Just prior to the release of TSW3, I had tickets in on derailment issues and I know many others had the same issues. God knows the forums are full of issues that seem to have been not resolved and some of mine have still not been fixed. Just the other day, I was on Peninsula corridor and noticed that the traction lock light in the GP38-2 on this route stays red in the HUD all the time, despite this bug being reported ages ago. Now the question I asked myself with the advent of TSW3, was why would I fork out more cash for a new bucket of bugs when the old bucket was still buggy? A right royal cockup and not what one would call good customer relations. No more, I say!

 

"Problem is we do keep coming back"...........No more for me! I'll stick with th bugs I have thanks DTG!

 

See my responses in the forum topic dirty dirt drive, where I have an answer to my ticket. No solution mind you, just a reply admitting something is wrong at their end!

 

That dirty dirt drive has been broken since release. It just bewilders me these things sit there. I'll kind of be glad when this add in manager is sorted and save game to free up more internal resource.

I really think there needs to be some acknowledgment of performance and the blurry textures and some reassurance that these things aren't getting kicked down the road behind 4 more dlcs it'll impact.

Wasn't this autotuner supposed to pick out areas where there are performance issues. I wonder if this will be run retrospective

 

Saw that and they close the ticket, too!

 

The way I look at it, if you can't find a game engine that suits your needs, make your own, if you can't make your own then hire someone that can.

The problem is as mentioned above, if dtg moved to ue5, all they are gonna do is port everything over from ue4 and end up with the same mess we have now.

 

Think about the cost of writing a completely new game engine. Pretty sure that would put the price up. Not something I want to pay for. Also given how many bugs there are using unreal. Think how many more there would be with their own game engine.

I doubt it’s either financial viable or desirable from a quality point of view.