Do We Really Need Another Open Letter To Dtg? Number 4 Or 5? Come On Team Dtg?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 16, 2022.

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  1. Tsw is one of the most expensive games to date! What's the cost of tsw3 with all the dlc, around £700

    If something don't work well, try and fix it, if it can't be fixed, start again.

    Dtg is a multi million pound company, Other multi million pound developers invest the time and money into getting it right, I'm just wondering what makes dtg different?
     
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think it would just be good to see some proper acknowledgment of the issues. I’m genuinely perplexed how dark the rose tinted glasses must be at times. Agree, it is expensive. I’ve pumped we’ll over £500 and feel aggrieved now.

    To think that it could be another incarnation with same issues is toe curling in two years.
     
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  3. I've not been a member of the forum that long but in the time I have been here I've noticed if dtg don't have an answer or can't fix something or have no intention of fixing something then they never acknowledge the issues. Well accept matt who sometimes says it how it is.

    I like tsc and tsw, I like dtg as the company that made them possible. But it really peevs me sometimes watching them make the same mistakes again and again.

    Like the stuttering, it's present in tsc and even though they went for a new game engine it's present in tsw? Like wtf was going through the mind of the person who see the demo running in ue4 and said yeah that's what we want, another game that stutters continuously?

    It's obvious the stuttering is never gonna get fixed, I accept that. Tsw has had a good run, it's shown us what can be achieved, what dtg can do, but it's time they put it on the back burner and start again, invest some serious cash into research and development, find something that works, and don't put any of the mistakes from tsw anywhere near it.
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Here is an example of things not loading in. This is on Pc.
    Look at the train number. Really in my mind that should be clear from any of those distances. This is what I am seeing with buildings too. Screenshot (320).png Screenshot (321).png Screenshot (322).png Screenshot (323).png
     
  5. Here's the text issue on sehs
    20221018151746_1.jpg 20221018151753_1.jpg

    Bad trees sehs
    20220903002622_1.jpg

    Overly bright sos
    20221017230157_1.jpg
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ah thank you. I haven't played that scenario. I just can't get the MP15 DC to accelerate when I am doing the second part of a southbound freight service (I'll try to get the name of the timetable service later) after I couple the train to the empty freight cars

    This is on Series X by the way
     
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  7. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    I now suspect that the Peninsula Corridor in it's entirety is bugged beyond belief. This from another post in the topic 'Peninsula Corridor Dirty dirt drive crash': vivalavabis#5089 says, "In TSW2 my account level is 75,and I driving F40PH or MP36 southbound the game will crash(both scenario and timetable)……and in TSW3 my account level is 79,but from level 0 to level 78,the game works fine......"
    I am having the same issues with this route on TSW2 yet it seems to have been fixed in TSW3. DTG = always the next new thing. They get no more money from me.
     
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  8. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    The blurred loco numbers even happens in the training centre
     
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  9. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    I, and it seems, others are still having crashes on southbound journeys and scenarios on this route in TSW2, yet at least one other forum member has said it works OK in TSW3. Fixed in one game maybe, left to rot in the other?
     
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  10. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Penn Corridor, DTG has been saying from the start that the Pres Crew fixes would be released to TSW3 first, then TSW2. Just as the Add-On Manager was to be released for TSW2 first, then TSW3.
     
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  11. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    I know, but still............
     
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The preserved crew updates seem to also have caused some issues in tsw3 for this route.
     
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  13. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Oh joy!! Cheer me up, why don't you? :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No it is seriously broken in TSW3, too.
     
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I probably should have clarified that I am having these issues in TSW3. I don't have tsw2 anymore
     
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  16. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    My pockets are not that deep that I can buy something and hope something will come out later that will interest me, if it does I'll cross that bridge if it happens.

    Bethesda found an engine and tailored it to fit themselves and are still using it. Mind you Bethesda is infamous for its bugs but they have also done very well out of it and allow modding in a big way in games like Skyrim and Fallout. I have always belived if you get a good game and allow modding it will sell better than if not but then DTG will take no notice of a mere customer.

    The advantage of DTG moving to UE5 when it is stable will only be an advantage if they start from scratch, if they imported things over then we will be in the same boat. It would mean DTG re-doing existing routes but they will be selling these.
     
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  17. Conductor B

    Conductor B Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there was an editor available whether the modding community might simply fix a lot of the smaller problems on their own. E.g. trees clipping the train, call-on signals not appearing, the many missing morpeth boards, lighting, etc.
     
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  18. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I love to see the silence of dev teams with interesting posts :D
    (i love or I´m affraid I don´t know yet)
     
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  19. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m certain things are read. I guess the best we can do with things is show them too with shots or videos so they can reproduce. Keyboards great for making the noise but it’s got to be seen to be believed as well
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I agree about the trees or routes like SEHS where you have grass and shrub clumps in the middle of a 90 MPH main line. I could have those out in a couple of minutes with the editor in TSC, Trainz or MSTS. What's worse though is it really indicates a lack of testing, including snagging by the route builder him/herself to spot this type of thing before baking it all down or whatever the UE process is. Surely if you're building a route you drive it end to end a few times looking for issues and to check everything is in order!
     
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  21. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

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    I work in the games industry. There are many much smaller houses than DTG putting out a vastly superior product (not train sims) in terms of playable quality and evolution from previous iterations and whilst I put up with TSW2, I’m really finding it hard to justify the glaring issues in TSW3 and its launch and subsequent implementation.

    the constant apologies are boring now and the “we know we must do better”
    Sound bytes don’t mean anything anymore. My long held wish is that another train sim comes out from a rival company. One that makes DTG and their partners sit up and actually put in the work required to keep the customers happy.
     
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  22. trainman#2504

    trainman#2504 Member

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    I feel that although Dovetail have a lot of great employees, they lack someone with great programming chops & a passion for it the same way that Joe has for timetables, or Matt has for trains & train sims in general. I just don't see that passion from anyone at the core level which should be the most important part of the product because every other part of the game touches it. Just my two cents.
     
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  23. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I would question people like Matt, I'm sure he is a nice bloke and he is definitely is enthusiastic with trains but he also guilty of wanting the next best thing then abandoning it. Like the head tracking, RD software and more. IMO it is one thing not being told about anything untill the last second like it is here but it is also hugely frustrating being promised certain fixes and updates from Matt only to be still waiting for it to be delivered.

    Then you have people like Sam who really struggle with the word 'Authentic' (see female fireman in SOS). Joe seems like a talent to me as does Adam for the most part. But as has been pointed out time and time again this game is bloody expensive but the quality is lacking and customers are ignored, this is why they have the Roadmaps like they do.

    You look at some of these developers on Steam where you can have a grown up conversation about the game, what they would like to see in it and what direction the dev or devs want to go in. Sometimes these games are made by one person or a couple of people and they FULLY engage with their player base well the better ones do and the game is better as well.

    Here it looks like DTG want to go out their way to avoid the player base, just like EA and co. And we know TSW3 has it's share of ex EA employees. Give us a game worth playing and some value for money for once.
     
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  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think the engagement here is really high, also on their streams, they all have day jobs and I don’t think any of them Contain “PA to xxx queries on forum” etc (not directed at anyone here, sweeping statement).

    Could some things be answered quicker…. Perhaps
    Could more be done? We don’t know their pressures
    Are they passionate? Undoubtedly.

    I have my niggles but their presence is a privilege, and their willingness to share where they can is like skirting as close to a leak as they can (Except DTG JD , he plays by no rules).

    I guess what I’m saying is that, we don’t go on a forum for every product we own and not every product actively converses on social media except to palm off a complaint.


    It’s not all bad here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
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  25. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Active Member

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    I have no idea what the history of TSW is regarding Xbox/PC, but here is what I saw on MS Flight Simulator 2020...

    Good start when launched in Aug/Sept 2020 (can't remember the exact date), but with the normal niggles to work out. Got better and better until its launch on Xbox in the summer of 2021, which brought MSFS 2020 to its knees. The Microsoft/Asobo goal was for MSFS 2020 to run on Xbox and the PC with one code set, and they created an ungainly monster in trying to do so.

    In fact, I came to TSW2 and TSC after pretty much giving up on MSFS 2020 in the spring of 2022. MSFS 2020 had gone from a really nice launch in 2020 that ran with good stability on my PC (i9-10900K/nVidia 2070 Super) to a buggy mess by the spring of 2022, and it all started with the launch of MSFS 2020 on Xbox.

    I have no idea the specificity of the difficulties of trying to run a PC version and Xbox version simulator with one code set, but it created a nightmare of spaghetti code in MSFS 2020, and maybe the same is happening with TSWx. In MSFS 2020, there became so many moving parts, that every update brought 3rd Party DLC to its knees. And 6 months later, based on the MSFS 2020 forum comments, nothing has changed. There are some 3rd Party developers pulling away from MS2020 completely, and others that have pretty much quit providing updates to their content.

    Could it be that the "Runs on both a PC and a console" business model is not working? Any developer wanting a job/contract will say anything to get it and try their hardest to make business goals a reality. But maybe it is just something code developers can't achieve in trying to satisfy the marketing departments of game/simulator publishers. Looks good on paper, but not in the code?

    Cheers! :)
    Retired Systems Integration Manager
    Fortune 10 Company
     
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  26. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    As Matt is not programming them himself, he is also waiting for them to be delivered. And as with the features you mention above and others, he has to prioritize with the budget and number of personnel he is given, as well as any priorities he is himself given from above.

    Are you still angry about wimmens in the cab? That seems like it would be easier to ignore than lights and sounds if one has a problem with it.

    How in the world are extensive roadmaps that take a significant amount of time to create and maintain, as well as the accompanying streams, all created for the purpose of informing the customer, "ignoring the customer"?

    In some ways, the smaller the studio, the more freedom they have.

    In addition to the roadmaps mentioned above, there's constant engagement on the forums. Matt himself is currently heavily involved in the two derail bug threads, both taking input and trying things out himself. Going out of their way to avoid the player base is utter nonsense.
     
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  27. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    You having a laugh? Matt has a history of promising things and then not following up on them. He has admitted this himself.


    Angry? hahaha, when it comes to the time I get angry with a something in a video game i'll move on. I was disappointed. I never bought SOS as it looked a bit boring to tell you the truth but if they had made the route a bit more busier I might have done. But let's be clear, it was DTG that said this route was AUTHENTIC not me and clearly it wasn't. It is DTG's game and they can make it how they want as they pointed out many times 'if you don't like it don't buy it' I chose not to buy it. Also patronising WOMEN to me is not a good example.


    Are you new here? We used to get roadmaps every two weeks here once upon a time and they were better imo than what they are now. And it was the customer's ability to give feedback which made them worth watching. If look what DTG has done it is obvious that they wanted to limit feedback which is why the Roadmap moved to monthly and whatever it is now.

    For me the Roadmap was as important as the feedback and was great to hear someone like Adam talking about it. I would argue customers got far more valued feedback from people like Adam than Matt and co. We also used to get far more detailed Roadmaps than what we get now. I struggle watching them now but they are great for my insomnia.

    They also have less people to share the burden and have to work hard to get a successful product, The larger a studio gets 9/10 gets you a more lazier product, see EA for examples plus Bethesda and all the rest but they are also capable of doing some good stuff.

    DTG have used the excuse in the past 'we don't have the resources of the big companies' so that would make them a small one no? Even though they area multi million pound one. Nothing is stopping DTG to interact more with the playerbase. They could easily for example set up a room where customers could leave questions for the devs to answer if they were to shy for the forums and that way the playerbase would be better informed and so long as the questions get answered honestly would give you a better product. 'No Man's sky' is a brilliant example of what you get when you do not interact with the playerbase properly and an even more perfect one when you do.

    Two threads? And that is your example of constant engagement on a forum? LOL. I don't think so, and why always Matt? I remember a time where Adam would post occasionally. People would like answers to their questions not general answers all the time, perhaps you are satisfied with this, good for you, but people are different.

    People imo bring things like this not to be 'difficult' as people like you would presume but because they love the game and want it to be better. People play video games for different reasons but playing games like TSW3 (I refuse to call it a sim) is for the immersion, you know something like reality? And imo if only DTG would listen and take on board what a lot of people bring up, like the sound, lack of passengers on some routes, the lighting, game details etc and do something about it instead of moving onto things no-one asked for (TSW3?) then DTG would produce a better game and have more sales which is good for everyone right?
     
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  28. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I see him bending over backwards to stress that things he and/or the devs would like to see are not promises that they will appear, and avoiding giving dates or timeframes for things that may be coming. If you've actually seen or heard the above, then I'll defer there.

    Either way, that doesn't negate my point, which is that he has to juggle his own priorities with those of the people he answers to, as well as what's possible with the people and budget he's given. Same as higher management everywhere. His elevated position gives him more autonomy, but also more and heavier balls to juggle. He's certainly not all-powerful.

    I remember people complaining that there was too much repetition in the biweekly roadmaps, which was echoed by JD when he announced the move to monthly.

    As far as it being "obvious that they wanted to limit feedback", I guess people can always find a way to see what they want. Seems like a more obvious way to limit feedback would be to eliminate the roadmaps entirely and do prerecorded videos instead of livestreams with an active chat.

    Your first sentence is absolutely true. There's always a tradeoff. I disagree with "lazier", though; those people are working hard. But the more people you have, and the more complex a game is, the more problems will creep in. Bethesda certainly puts out ridiculously buggy games that are also ridiculously complex, and they're not the only ones. I'm currently playing Skyrim for the first time, and it's plain to see which bugs haven't been a priority even 11 years on (yes, the PS4 Special Edition is still getting patches as recently as last month).

    Multi-million pound company seems to be becoming a new catchphrase, but so what? It's one number, by itself as meaningless as, say, pounds on a scale. I'm roughly the same height and weight as an NFL quarterback, but am not exactly in the same physical condition.

    That money has to be split up lots of ways. Nobody who doesn't have access to DTG's books can say with authority how they can be splitting it better.

    With all the complaints about A) bugs and B) how long some have lasted, why would you want to take the devs away from devving to answer customer questions? That's what the community reps are for--to act as go-betweens. And yes, they have been quiet lately.

    Oh, come on. That's an example, not the example, and it's a valid one. You've also seen all the DTG's staff's posts over the last two years, and you can always check the history if you've forgotten.

    This is true, but it hasn't been that long. He's also a developer in charge of a team that's busy with development stuff that people have been asking for. Communication is always nice, but I'd rather he be silently working than talkatively not. Again, that's what the community reps are for, and I do wish we were hearing more from them.

    It's been mentioned, and you can see for yourself, just how many posts are on this forum. Individual answers to every individual question are impossible. Plus, you have people demanding repeats of already-given answers just because it's been a few weeks or months. Another balancing act, productive customer engagement vs. time spent productively on the game.

    Here I have to ask that you not put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head, and especially that you don't put said fictional words in quotes as if repeating me.

    Not seeing changes doesn't mean DTG isn't listening, but there are many factors involved as I mentioned way above. That's not to absolve the many problems. I'm especially disappointed that after gradual improvements in the quality of QA and patches, things seems to be coming out too quickly and inadequately cooked again. Hopefully this seeming backslide will be reversed.

    As far as aspects to be fixed, Matt said the other day that he was prioritizing game-breaking bugs over immersion-breaking cosmetics (my paraphrasing, not his exact wording). Personally, I agree--doesn't matter if the lighting or sound on part of a route needs improvement, or if a station doesn't have enough passengers, if your run crashes before you get there. But all are indeed important for realism, as you put it, and hopefully the worst of the bugs can be squished in a decent amount of time so that the atmosphere can then be tweaked.
     
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  29. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    The highest priority for DTG ist to solve bugs if you can't buy a DLC.
    These bugs are magically solved within a few hours :D
     
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  30. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Uh, I´d be already happy if DTG don´t introduce more bugs than they fix with their "patches". Yeah, it came to this point. Unf.......believable, I know.
     
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  31. trainman#2504

    trainman#2504 Member

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    The way bug reporting is done by Dovetail now is not ideal. A game like this with many moving parts is always going to be highly reliant on user reports to improve & maintain their content. Why bring the player out-of-game and make them enter a bunch of technical information on a webpage after creating yet another account for freshdesk?

    If providing feedback is easier and more streamlined you will be provided with more and better feedback and hopefully allow your team to quickly isolate larger problems using data analytics. Integrate it into Dovetail Live, perhaps offer a way to communicate that reported bugs have been reviewed and/or are being fixed. It could also help them isolate more quickly bugs that require specific hardware or software to trigger.


    Imagine you find a problem on a route like a floating sign you pause the game you hit report bug it saves a screenshot, your system stats, your location in world, etc and you just have to select type of bug and a brief description to send it.

    More nuanced feedback will always benefit from the forum and the other social media channels, where it can be discussed openly, but not all feedback & bug reporting needs a deep conversation. I see this as a good first step if you're trying to improve development turnaround time and move to a more RERO style release schedule.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
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  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    He isn't a coder, it is promising stuff that may or may not happen and speaking into a camera, I'm afraid I do not see this as 'bending over backwards.

    I never said he was 'all powerful' and quite clearly he isn't either. Otherwise we might see decent hardware or a RD with decent software as promised.

    As I said before it wasn't the content of the Roadmap it was the Question from the player base imo DTG are trying to limit. From 10 or so mins every fortnight we get 10 mins a month barely, they are limiting feedback whether you can or cannot see it is your problem. I actully agreed with the monthly Roadmap as it was getting very tedious cause they were saying less and less but they could of kept a Q&A session every couple of weeks.

    And if they are frightened of doing a live question session they could have a thread where you could submit questions, customers would like that.

    Which isn't far off what they do. They cower from live questions and cherry pick them as they don't like facing the problems people are facing. Roadmaps are dull and don't let on much, unless JD is letting something slip. They could quite easily drop the Roadmaps and post it up here and replace it with a decent Q&A.


    I play Fallout 4 and well aware of Betheda's bugs, saying that there is an update coming next year apparently. But tell me, what is the single most important thing keeping buggy games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 so popular? No? Mods! If the modders could ever get a decent toolkit for TSW it would transform the game.

    The more people you have the more complex the game is? Every game is going to have bugs nowadays but it is how you address those bugs and how you fix them. There has been far, far bigger companies that release regular patches and address issues in a matter of weeks even days. Even EA does this in FIFA even if there are still issues. DTG have still issues going back years and the sound is still put on the back burner.

    The you have games like 'No man's Sky' which should be an example to DTG how to turn round a buggy game into a good one people want to play.



    I have no idea about NFL so can't comment there but people say DTG is a Multi-Million pound company because they are and shows they are not struggling and if people had a request I would bet it would be for DTG to fix bugs as they said they were going to but lied again and we got TSW3 which has bugs and issues from TSW2.

    I bet many on here would have a decent go. Matt seems to want the next shiny thing for TSW but a lot of people here would like bugs to fixed.




    You provided the example not me. You seem to suggesting DTG are involved in most threads, they are not, not by a long chalk. And I don't expect them to be but the moderators should be passing on issues to devs. You look at threads like one of the RD threads which got stickied I think where Matt was engaging with users and saying how easy it is to program the RD. And then 'Tumbleweed'.

    The most active I have seen here from DTG is probably JD and he can't get the info people want, from what I have seen anyway.



    You make it sound like DTG are hard at it 24 hrs a day, I think you will find they are not. Again these devs from indie games work far harder for a little profit and fully engage with the public some bigger games companies do as well.


    I agree but then it seems you have to keep repeating an issue here until DTG acknowledge it in the vain hope they might do something about it. I don't see an issue of answering questions and working on the game, in fact it might be beneficial for them to see where they are going wrong.

    Here I have to ask you to take notice of the word 'presume= suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability' that isn't putting any words in anyone's mouth.

    So, in summary to your statement, 'They are not listening'.

    LOL, you put so much blind faith in DTG it is amazing, do you work for them? DTG call their game a sim if there is no realism or what they have is broken what is the game simulating? We are still waiting for Rush Hour to be fixed on some routes. TSW is bloody expensive and more so with this cost of living crisis going on so people shelling out their lolly for this expect it to represent some of what they are being told. Instead we get 'It will be looked at' not good enough in my book.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Fallout and Elder Scrolls are also hugely popular on console, where mods aren't a factor.
     
  34. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm done with the TSW drama. I just had another instance where I tried to complete a very basic tutorial and the controls locked up on me, tried six or seven times and got the same result.

    I'm thinking I just need to deinstall this game and cut my losses, I'm spending more time dealing with game-breaking issues and hopping on this forum looking for solutions than relaxing and enjoying the game. It shouldn't be this way.
     
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  35. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about Elder Scrolls but mods are very popular on Xbox and playstation for Fallout 4. Bethesda host them and there is the 'Creation Club'. If it wasn't for the mods Fallout 4 would have died a painful death years ago.
     
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  36. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Skyrim and Fallout 4 both have mods for console. Maybe not PC-level mods, but still...
     
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  37. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Well, mathematically, one roadmap stream a month is indeed more limiting than two a month. Claiming that's the purpose behind the reduction is baseless negative spin.

    And I certainly agree that a regular Q&A stream would be nice, provided it didn't cut too much into the work being done on the game.

    But...

    It is impossible to try to portray their willingness to answer questions live on streams as a reluctance to answer questions live on streams and not sound nonsensical.

    You've misquoted and changed the meaning of my sentence. What I actually wrote was "But the more people you have, and the more complex a game is, the more problems will creep in."

    Indisputably true.

    In this case, you're trying to portray DTG as an outlier, even though the first sentence also applies to DTG and the last also applies to other developers. TSW3 has been out a bit less than two months and has already received five patches as of today. Regarding your last sentence, Skyrim's PS4 Special Edition is still getting patched nearly five years after release, and nearly eleven years after the original game's release. And it's still nothing like bug-free. Neither were Horizon Zero Dawn, or Assassin's Creed Origins & Odyssey, or Ghost of Tsushima, or pretty much any other game I've played. Some bugs are prioritized and some are pushed back. That's how it works.

    NMS, aside from having absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with TSW, was developed by a very few people and sold over two million copies very quickly (despite being in much worse condition on release and for months afterward than anything DTG has released). The insane profits from those initial sales enabled them to start developing bountiful free updates, and the continuing good sales enable continuing updates.

    So if TSW had been developed by a staff roughly equal to the number of fingers on a hand and sold over 2M copies soon after release, and DTG were able to keep updates coming and sales high while keeping the staff at around two dozen people, you might have a point.

    And it's awfully odd that you would accuse DTG of cherry-picking above, and then pull out No Man's Sky, of all things, as an example of what DTG should do.

    Matt has said that he's prioritizing bugs, as I mentioned in a paragraph you yourself quoted near the end of the post. What's the next shiny thing he has said he wants more?

    Nope. Even if they had an open job I thought I could do, I'm not eligible as I live in the U.S.

    Back at you. Your capacity for endless negative spin aimed at DTG and its staff is also amazing. Did someone working there come into your yard and kick your puppy or something?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
  38. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Just seeing this thread now. I had no idea PC players were having such issues as the console version. I feel your pain. I've stuck to TSW2 while occasionally looking in to TSW3 whenever I see a patch. So far the game is too stuttery for my eye. Given that really the only things that have changed from TSW2 to 3 are the clouds, lighting, a few minor touches like sparks and then dynamic weather it has to be one of these things that have made the game a complete mess. But who knows. I leave it up to DTG to figure out. If it can't be, then it's a simple GamePass uninstall for me and the end of the road in future DLC collection. Still happy with the way TSW2 performs.
     
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  39. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Same here. If they fix SPG crashing and Peninsula Corridor, I'll be as happy as a pig in muck!!
     
  40. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    It should be noted that the New Journeys patch arrived in a suitable timeframe. To me this already seems like a new DTG. I remember the BR101 crashing Dresden - Rieza took months before getting solved.
     
  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think a monthly q and a stream would be nice to be fair , there's plenty of questions. Could it be a bi weekly introduction to sit between the roadmaps perhaps

    Could be set out with topics like the screenshot competitions.
    Could have a "most interesting post seen"
    "Weirdest bug"
    "Interesting thing happened at office" etc

    Themed discussion could be nice as questions will be filtered to some extent anyway but the open dialect with Matt and Jd is always fun
     
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  42. bdobronz1968

    bdobronz1968 Active Member

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    Very intering and hopefully helpful post! Thank you, chieflongshin!
    I really hope that some guys from DTG will read this and take the custumers complains serious.

    I work in the software industry for many years, as an product manager and lately as scrum master, so I know both sides, development and product. And I know from my own experience how hard it is to tweak a poor piece of software while it is allready released and how easy it it is to destroy some code with an patch which should cure an complete other part of the software. So I really be patient with DTG. I think that they were forced to release TSW3 in an unfinished and unpolished state. Especially in terms of balancing and optimisation.

    For a short period I thought that my disappointment in terms of performance is caused by my decision to buy a "budget" console like the Xbox Series S. But when I read that other players experience the same issues with high end hardware or a more expensive console, I know that it isn't like that. I really considered about switching back to TSW2 and only use TSW3 for SKW. Because the so called legacy routes look mostly worse on TSW3 than on the precessor. Especially the low drawing distance of the shadows spoils the immersion. And obviously DTG cut the drawing distances for all routes down in general, in order to get the new core routes working. And thats a shame. Because for me TSW3 now looks nearly similar like TSW2 back than when I played it on Xbox One. And as I mentioned, buying an Xbox Series X wouldn't cure the issue - and is no option for me.

    I really hope that DTG will find ways to optimise the game. I'm sure that it is possible. The former preservation crew's updates showed that there are smart guys working at DTG, question is if they'll be allowed to take care. In the end they need to earn money. And it is a matter of strategy and balance if they want to get new customers or keep the current ones. And I still have no clue if DTG appreciates the help of their customers or not. Do they read postings like this? Do they like us to post bug reports? Or is making profit with least effort their only Intention? I don’t think so.

    But I really wonder why the have a community manager who communicates so seldom to the community? Just now, where a lot of customers seems to be very unhappy with the current state of the product? I know from my own experience that keeping the head down isn't the best tactic in heavy times. Even if it is hard to tell the truth.

    My hope is that they will improve TSW3 to the point that it looks and feels at least similar to TSW2. My guess is that they won't, because they are glad with the current state.

    I decided to stay with TSW3 and I'd moved TSW2 from one of my SDDs to the storage HDD, although I have enough storage space left. Consider this as my statement to DTG and my believe that things will getting better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
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  43. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    The community managers do interact a lot. They just can't answer every question due to not knowing the answer or out of their expertise or keep up with the amount of posts and replies that pop up in the forums each day.
     
  44. I've been playing through all the routes on tsw3 and I think the problem is that each route is like a different game. A bit like tsc where one developer will use lower res assets and run at 60fps and another will use higher res assets and struggle to hit 30fps. Also the scenery density on some routes is greater than others.

    Then with the release of tsw3 and the 3 new routes all with different lighting and dynamic clouds, you can max all the settings for most of the legacy routes but when it comes to the new routes, they won't run at max settings.

    Even with the tsw2 routes they won't all run on max settings. Some have more scenery than others.
    One example is sehs. I get better performance on the 3rd rail parts of the route than I do on the overhead wire parts, because the ole is a extra thing for the gpu to render.

    The new German route has lots of trees and ole, and with the new sky I find it hard to get a constant 60fps. Yet if I set the foliage quality to low, removing a ton of trees I can achieve constant 60fps.

    If you own several different games you will notice not all of them will run on the same settings but each game has its own settings, so you adjust the settings per game and they stay that way. With tsw on the other hand you have several different games all running on the same settings!

    So you will mess about with the settings to run London commuter the best it can but then you wanna play sehs, this is where the problem is because sehs won't run as well on the same settings as London commuter!

    The fix for this would be to have graphics settings dependent for each route but I would imagine for dtg to implement this will be a headache so it is what it is!

    Over the past week I've been playing some AAA games and paying attention to the scenery, something you wouldn't normally do playing a shooter or racing sim and I've noticed the same kind of rendering and pop in that I would say is a problem in tsw but wouldn’t class as a problem in a game where I don't have time to look at the scenery.

    Although I'm not going back on what I said about tsw3 (especially sehs) having shorter rendering distances than tsw2. But I think maybe this is due to the brighter lighting highlighting these objects a lot more in tsw3.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2022
  45. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Also lowering the sky quality and turning off dynamic weather can also raise fps in skw
     
  46. Yeah I did notice that. I think it kind of defeats the object of having the new sky. Then some routes I can live with having less trees and others I prefer lowering the sky quality instead. I think a easy way for dtg to help us out would be a few user defined graphics presets.

    Thanks.
     
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  47. bdobronz1968

    bdobronz1968 Active Member

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    PC players can do this, but it is no option for those who play on console. We have to take what we get. And hope that the game is well set up for each type of console. I would reduce the sky quality if I could, because this is no important feature for me. But I can‘t. I just played a service at SKW without dynamic weather, cloudy sky, and it was stuttering a lot more than it was used to be. Very strange. But let’s be optimistic that they will take care and find a cure.
     
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  48. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Another issue related to BNSF locomotive numbers, is they are almost correlative!
    When you see any US train with locomotives of the same company, numbers are quite different - at least the 3 last ones! -
    This does not happens on Sherman Hill. SD70ACE have different ones.

    That must be fixed, as it is not real.

    Talking about Sherman Hill, the Hermosa tunnels visuals on PS4, are really ugly!
    I had already reported.
    Those are important ones - are a landmark of the route -, and are the only ones on the sim, which look that way.
    Hopes this be fixed soon!
     
  49. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Please delete your last sentence.
    Those things never happen :D
     
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  50. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    No need for a 'but' at all. There definitely needs to be a regular Q&A session as it would benefit everyone.


    Disagree. Pointless explaining as you keep going round in circles.

    Hardly misquoting when I used the same words you did and didn't need the full quote to explain the point.

    You can agree with people, do you feel different now?

    Those games are hugely successful and have a playerbase DTG could only have a wet dream over especially Skyrim and I would include Fallout 4 but you don't mention how Bethesda allow their games to be modded and how the playerbase have eliminated many of the bugs something DTG won't allow here.

    And you talk like TSW3 is an all new spanking game, hate to break it to you but it is just TSW2 with a few addon's, DTG said as much themselves which is why the same old bugs are in TSW3.

    Talk about missing the point. Why I mentioned NMS is the ability of a developer that made mistakes and then to take onboard what their angry playerbase was saying and then release fixes, patches and huge updates and all for free. Look how they have totally turned it around and their player base is increasing. That was the point I was making, I want DTG to follow their example but we are still way off that yet.


    The next shiny thing was TSW3 itself or did you miss that? I suppose you missed it when Matt & co said they were going to go quiet for a few months to concentrate on fixing bus for TSW2 and then they brought out TSW3 and people who spent loads of money on TSW2 got nowt.

    I don't know if that is a pastime from where you are from but kicking puppies round 'ere is frowned upon. Negative spin? How is pointing out flaws in a game negative spin? If you are so happy with TSW3 why are you still here? Go away and play it. Some people here would like DTG to address certain issues in the game to make for a better experience.

    Again if you are so happy I don't see why you are here and not playing the game.

    Been saying this ever since the Roadmaps got moved to monthly, I said at the time I thought it was a good move but the way they have it is ten minutes of Q&A at the end of the Roadmap which going by the forums isn't enough imo. They could do just the Roadamps on these forums but have a fortnightly Q&A session with people that can answer, I'm sure it would go down very well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
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