In bad (wet/snowy) weather it is hard to achieve 30+ kN of tractive effort. OK. But it is the same difficulty when inside a tunnel, where weather impact on track condition is different. Is this simulated this particular way for some reason or the game do not know about "covered" track at all?
I've often wondered this. It's true that water would run down rails on a slope into tunnels to a degree, but otherwise the main reason for tunnel rails getting wet/icy would be from the train wheels themselves (ie the water they would carry in). But from what I've seen in the game it doesn't seem as if covered rail adhesion is modeled differently to open-air rail adhesion - although I could be wrong.
I think its an interesting concept but how would it be implemented. Do you have to create something which detects if rail is undercover, tunnel, station canopy etc and then it applies a dry line for example like the racing sims or would it be some sort of adhesion layer (tqalking like I have half a clue) applied manually by an artist. Either way, how long would it be before someone is saying "Im disgusted that they cant get it right and make rails dry under this bridge, I keep feeding it back" Most of the time too, are we realistically going to be stopping in all the places that could have an adhesion difference, likely not. Seems like a lot of work for little value to me personally but I'm certainly not saying its wrong.
Pretty much, yeah. It should be pretty basic for a developer these days to implement, and you'd think anyone developing a game with tunnels, etc., would want it working for release. It's the kind of thing, in a modern game, that should be working on release day... I mean, if they do differentiate between uncovered and covered track on most routes and this is an unintended bug that slipped the net on one or two routes, fair enough. But then it should be a fairly quick patch.
I believe the map can differentiate between tunnels and not tunnels (maybe except Bakerloo Line). I remember seeing the orange track have a white layer on top of it to signify where the tunnels were, so this could be possible, but long term it would have to be a route-by-route implementation if they want to make sure that every tunnel is covered. Bridges shouldn't really count because of wind and the fact that water and snow can spread.
Agree with both the above but it’s I believe we all know there’s those that passionate that if the station canopy or the oak tree near signal 286T doesn’t have different adhesion they’ll create. I think it would be a nice touch which would add more realism but also more “will this be for tsw3” I’m sure “No this is a tsw3 only route/feature” will be on the next 6months of release streams and this would creep in too . I like it though
In most tunnels on Kassel-Wurzburg (the tunnel route) the adhesion is better inside the tunnel but some tunnels (or sections of tunnels) have the same adhesion as outside. It has been shown that it can be done. I know this because I did a freight service with snow on the ground and only lost grip out in the open or in the bits of tunnel that had not been set up correctly. It was touch and go as to whether I would reach the next tunnel before grinding to a halt, then in the tunnels I could gain a bit more speed. It was great fun but a very lengthy service. So it is already a thing in TSW3.
In real life you experience poor adhesion in some tunnels even when the weather and adhesion out in the open are fine. Some tunnels are pretty damp most of the time, with watering flowing in from one end or coming through the tunnel lining, and there’s no sunlight to dry it up. It shouldn’t be assumed, therefore, that once you enter a tunnel you should get improved adhesion. It can be worse.
The problem is not the IRL but exact the same adhesion inside and outside some in-game tunnels. Looks partialy broken for me. Bakerloo is the good example.
I thought there's some real slippery parts on the bakerloo line and dtg simulated this? Or am I thinking of another train simulator.
This is really noticeable on Bakerloo line. I can adjust my driving style in the rain (when accelerating, stay on notch 2 until reaching ~9 km/h instead of immediately using notch 3). But it feels really unrealistic to have to do that in the tunnel section. I’m assuming the train (and maybe even the tracks/rails themselves) knows when it’s inside a tunnel (especially on Bakerloo) due to different exterior camera options and environmental lighting. Thus, wouldn’t it be possible to tell a train or piece of rail to ignore any weather adhesion changes if it’s inside a tunnel?
Subway tunnels are not solidly roofed over, as any New Yorker can tell you. There are plenty of overhead gratings and vents that let water in.
Bakerloo is deep-tube though, it's not like a cut-and-cover NYC subway where you can lift a grate in the street and practically touch carriages passing beneath you. Typical depth below ground level is ~24m.
I think it would be helpful for DTG if the tunnels that don't have "dry adhesion" functioning were identified. For some routes it's easy since it's "all of them" but if I read the thread correctly most (or some?) of the tunnels in KWG are working correctly while some aren't. If these were named it will speed up the process of finding the faulty tunnels and in turn fixing them.
